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T5 Starter Not Turning - options -How to remove

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ronaneIRL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronaneIRL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: T5 Starter Not Turning - options -How to remove
    Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 20:03
Hi All,
my T5 1.9 AXD was sluggish starting and refused to start first cold morning. 
I then suspected the battery even though it was 12 months old so put it on charge for the weekend.

Once the battery was charged when I reconnected the terminals without the ignition on there was a spark leading me to believe there is a parasitic current leak somewhere in the extras I've fitted. I'm going to deal with that later once I've the van running.

I thought I'd try starting it anyhow but the starter motor's not doing anything.
I tried jump starting with another car but no joy. I'm thinking the starter motor might be engaged so am thinking of having a go at removing it and examining it. Does this seem like a reasonable approach?

I can see where it is on the right hand side of the engine bay. Can anyone tell me if I need to remove the front bumper and rads to get at it?

Lastly can the t5's be tow started? I seem to remember that they couldn't be due to traction control.

A link to a workshop manual would help.
Thanks,
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 22:56
If the starter motor is jammed against the flywheel you can sometimes unstick it by jacking up one wheel, putting it in top gear and trying to rotate the wheel (carefully so it doesn't fall off the jack - the std T5 jacks are positively dangerous, let alone when you are rocking the van around).

I can't answer your other questions, but someone else on here may have some knowledge.
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max and caddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 23:19
5 or 6 speed? You don't need to remove anything to get at but it won't be easy....t5s are crap to work on...everything is in in a bad place to get at or has some other major component in the way...
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max and caddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 23:21
It can be tow started...but if your starter is stuck in mesh ( bet it isn't like) it will be going round at about 100000rpm and probley break off...best bet is to run a cable to it and ping 12v into the solenoid 50 terminal...see what happens then..
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Alonline View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 23:56
Originally posted by max and caddy max and caddy wrote:

5 or 6 speed? You don't need to remove anything to get at but it won't be easy....t5s are crap to work on...everything is in in a bad place to get at or has some other major component in the way...
 
 
Max be careful the VW mods will be watching and if you are negative they will strike you with a -VE.LOL
 
 
I'm proud I have been promoted to VW Customer ServiceThumbs Up
 
 
Back to the Issue at hand, a though from a owner and not professionally qualified tinkerer. When starting, neutral gear and clutch down and see if this helps it turn over?
 
All leads will give a minor spark on connection as with so much electronic crap on board now a days the battery is always working, ECU, Receiver for central locking, clock, interior lights. You would need to put a multi meter on amperage and measure the draw to see if it is anything serious or the usual. Most meter require you to move the plugins for the leads to measure amperage.
 
Good luck and happy motoring.
 
PS careful with the standard one leg VW death trap jacks. Axle stand at very least and the rear wheels choced.
 
If it comes to removing the starter, thin gloves, small hands and patience.
 
We have bump started T5's, turn to glow plugs, allow to go off and tow in 4th gear, you will need something strong (another T5 or better with very strong rope) a quick lift on the clutch and down and usually Bobs your uncle???
 
I would make sure the starter has disengaged though before trying, a faulty ignition switch in a cavalier failed to dis engage a starter on me and after 7 miles at 50 ish the starter acted as a generator, blew the alternator, melted the starter motor to bits, the insulation dripped onto the drive shaft and it looked like a hedge hog all spikey and wrecked the battery and began to melt the wiring loom.
 
It was the haze that began to come out from below the drivers wheel arch gave it away. I knew on it the turbo wouldn't come in as it was held out by the starter circuit for 30 seconds after starting I think for oil flow.
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max and caddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 13 at 00:05
0.03 amp parasitic load max...wait untill all the ecus nod off however and be ready to replace the fuse on your amp meter as it will pop if you lock the doors etc...
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ronaneIRL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronaneIRL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 13 at 18:21
Thanks Gents for all the advice, very much appreciated.

No matter what I do it won't turn, clutch in, out of gear etc.

I tried rocking in gear but no help.

I tapped the solenoid with a hammer and it then made a tick noise when I tried to start her.

I'm going to start early tomorrow and take the starter out, my local mechanic says he normally removes  he starter from underneath, I guess that's not going to be an option for me without a garage lift.
Cheers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 13 at 18:55
Even I would risk a new starter motor given those symptoms.  As long as 'sluggish starting' means that the engine was turning over slowly but has now died.  A failing starter motor can wreck a battery over time so that could be why it was replaced a year ago.  I'm with Max (and Al) and on the spark you saw on connecting, but the clutch in/out doesn't apply to T5's nor does the rocking thing because it's about 40 years out of date!
.
I'm assuming your mechanic will test the starter motor solenoid/battery feed/earth before he takes it out...
Edit- Of course he will check that engine is actually free also but I'm with Max on that as well. Thumbs Up  Tranquillo dude as the say in Spain Tongue         

Edited by T5 TDI - 01 Nov 13 at 19:04
2004 2.5 174
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ronaneIRL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronaneIRL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 13 at 08:04
gracias hombre!

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ronaneIRL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronaneIRL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 13 at 14:39
Thanks for all the advice.
I tested the battery at a local motor factors and it was perfect so next step was to take the starter out and it was burn out. 

When I connected it to jump leads to the ground and + terminal directly it would barely turn. Once I took it a a repair guy he saw that the stator was damaged and burnt out.

I'm an amateur so be careful if you follow these steps:

Park the van, handbrake on and in gear. 
No need to jack it up unless safe to do so - I managed to swap my starter without jacking the van up.
Disconnect the battery terminals

Under the van
remove the plastic floor tray - 4 bolts holding it up
remove the ground lead from end of the the starter motor - its a 13 mm nut on the end of the lower starter motor bolt
Use an 18 mm socket to remove the bottom starter motor  bolt.

Up top.
Remove the windscreen washer reservoir bolts and the right most water pipe to allow you to move the reservoir to the left. This will give you more space to work.

I used a long cable tie to tie the turbo pipe back out of the way and allow me better access to the starter motor.

Remove the 13 mm nut holding the positive battery feed from the battery.
Once this is off you'll see a plastic connector holding on a thinner wire - this connector has a release mechanism you need to be careful with - prise it open gently with a flat head screw driver.

Once those cables are off its easier to see the top starter motor bolt. Again use an 18 mm socket to remove the long bolt holding this on.

My starter was still stuck on on after I removed the bolts so a quick tap of the wooden end of a hammer freed it.

I paid 80 euro for a reconditioned starter as there was one available locally. 
Hopefully this will be of help to someone else.
Thanks again hombres,
Ro
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T5 TDI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 13 at 16:36
Nice job Ronan!  It could go as another excellent 'how to do' in the modifications section. http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/t5-modifications_forum33.html  You should ask the mod to put it up.  Having said that, who is the big cheese on this board these days? Tongue   Orangina seems to have disappeared...      
2004 2.5 174
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Kev The Gas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev The Gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 13 at 20:44
Great posts and news hopefully your'e problems are sorted.

T5.1 T32 LWB Kombi 140 ps. Sold

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