The Brick-yard Homepage Brickwerks
Forum Home Forum Home > T5 Section > T5 Chat
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Wiring help requested
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Wiring help requested

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
DaveHobie View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 13
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveHobie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wiring help requested
    Posted: 09 Feb 17 at 00:38
Had an issue with water entering lower fuse box under the battery, with all the wires, cpu and relays corroded badly.

I fuct up when cutting all the multi plugs out and fitting new connectors. Connector 14 - pink connector has 3 black wires coming out. I need to know which black wires are supposed to be connected to. Have played the guessing game and now the relays do not switch off etc. The van runs OK with no issues so far. Vw 1.9 Tdi 2005

Etka is too expensive for us as our exchange rate is 15 to 17 to the euro or pound. Have ordered a Haynes manual but it will only arrive in a month or so. Thanks.

Edited by DaveHobie - 09 Feb 17 at 06:28
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 17 at 09:38
That box is usually known as the 'e- box'.   And because adding cruise control to most T5's means adding a new connection to it, it's worth googling (images) including that term, there should be a pic out there somewhere.  

2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
DaveHobie View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 13
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveHobie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 00:51
Thanks for the reply, due to the extent of the water damage I had to strip and repair the cpu and replace all the connectors.

Due to working at night I did not notice that the 3 wires were the same colour as they were covered in corrosion and labels etc. The black wires are the same thickness making it difficult to guess where they actually go.
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 16:23
Does your e box have 8 or 15 positions?  And what is your engine code?  And most important, which relay/s aren't switching?      
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
DaveHobie View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 13
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveHobie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 17:02
It is the axb engine and the e box has 15 positions.

The connector is in position 14.

It is a pink connector.

Pin 1 is green
    2 is black
    3 is no wire
    4 is blue with a white stripe
    5 is brown
    6 is black
    7 is no wire
    8 is black

Relay not switching off looks like relay 103

Posted pictures to photobucket but cannot get any links as adverts keep coming up on photobucket - cannot do it on a mobile device. Will try on a pc later.

Thank you, I appreciate your help
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 09:25
That's odd.  I have an old defunct laptop (with a dead battery and big stripes across the screen) but it has an old version of the wiring diagrams on it.  But that shows completely different wiring colours for the pink connector in the e box. Confused  

It doesn't seem to have a single diagram for the e box connections, rather than that, you have to look though dozens of diagrams for mentions of where the pink 10 pin connector wires eventually go to and trace them back.  The only black wire looks to be the feed for the reverse light from fuse 15, although there is a red and black that goes to the changeover flap.  (That flap is inside the EGR valve and should close when you switch off.)

As far as I could see (around the screen stripes!) the wires in the pink 10 pin connector were:

Red/black    N239 Changeover flap
Red/yellow   N75   Turbo control valve
Red                      Starter motor 
White                    ECU
Red                      Starter motor isolator (Auto only)
White                    A/C clutch
Brown/white          Unknown
Red                      Starter motor

It's so different I must be looking at the wrong connector but I couldn't see anything else. Confused   I know you mentioned only 8 wires but is it a ten pin connector?





     
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 09:34
Aha!  I've just realized something.  There is a diagram of of the positions of the connectors in the e box and the pink connector is at position 5 rather than 14.  Position 14 is listed as purple!  So I have the feeling your connector is probably counted as purple rather than pink.  It takes too long to look up all the wires so I'll stick to the three black ones if I can find them.
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 10:28
Reckon I have it now.  It looks like it is the purple 10 pin connector.  They are ABS wires.  One goes to the TCS/ESP/ASR button on the dash.  Both the others go to the ABS pump and from there on to the front left and right ABS sensors.  

You should have had an ABS light on the dash if there were any wrongly connected wires but maybe not if it was a sensor wire and it hasn't been driven.  Incidentally I noticed a couple of others (the green one and the black/white one) going to the ABS pump also.  Smile

I can't tell which position each wire should go to in the plug but I would definitely recommend taking both ends off any wire before doing any continuity testing.  You should check all the fuses as well.  Especially SD17 which is in the fuse box under the bonnet on the e box. 

Relay 103 I think is the glow plug relay.  I can't think why that should have been affected. 


Edited by T5 TDI - 11 Feb 17 at 10:44
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 10:45
Sorry double post..

Edited by T5 TDI - 11 Feb 17 at 14:47
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
DaveHobie View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 13
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveHobie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 17 at 00:01
You nailed it.

Swopped the black wires and checked with vcds - abs fault. What is the odds on getting all three wires in correctly the first time....

Relay 103 is the glow plugs - too much wild turkey. The relay staying on is 109.

I bought the van second hand and from day one I had mysterious faults that would occur and disappear, so I can presume it had water in there then evaporate etc. So for 8 years I have had the water leak unknowingly.

When I stripped the e box it was full. A solid kick to the plums would have been a better alternative but still the same reaction. Some of the wires had already corroded off and as I touched some they just fell apart.

I suggest getting colour coded cable ties and tying the same colour per male and female connectors to keep them together. Easy identification later. Now we know now the only wires not colour coded are the three black ones. Women know colours and they all agreed with pink. I suspect they changed colours due to being submerged. Me I only know basic colours. Blue,red etc

I fitted deutsch connectors to all the wires and repaired it that way as the loose pins per connector x all was more expensive than buying a house and a yacht. Tried starting and did not start. Opened up cpu and cleaned the tracks and checked for dry joints etc. Resoldered components on board and sprayed on plasticote. Started good after that but found it was not switching off. Had a current drain of 0.9A

The problem with relay 109 is that 30 and 85 are joined internally via a steel plate and is missing a pin. Not impressed - another way to feed the vw money making machine. Suspect it is grounded by the cpu, so one of the transistors must be blown. Have sprayed a million coats of plasticote so I do not want to open up the logic card again. Will investigate fitting a relay to supply ground to the relay and cut the cpu wire feeding the relay.

Thanks once again for your time - you have spent a lot of time assisting me. Pity I could not post pictures would have been simpler. Had no problems posting many pictures here before. Will advise you of the outcome later in the week.


Edited by DaveHobie - 12 Feb 17 at 00:02
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 17 at 11:06
Yes 109 is the main 12v relay (terminal 30 relay).  I think you are right about the ECU/CPU providing an earth for the relay.  Good to hear you are getting there with it!  
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
DaveHobie View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 13
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveHobie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 23:58
Only able to get busy on Sunday to work on it. The fault was in the ecu earthing wire - blue/yellow wire. Had broken off at the terminal pin at the crimp zone - situated inside the ecu connector plug.

Be careful it looks like it is a good connection because of the wire holding crimp side at the back of the pin but it does not make a connection. Solder a sewing pin to a crocodile clip and test with a multimeter and put a load through it at ecu plug.

Probably a good thing as it did not hurt the ecu. The failure was corrosion due to water etc so acted as a fuse. The ebox cover was damaged by a previous repair and the bigger ecu connector was missing a cable tie and wrapping that is used for strain relief. Vw chose to save money by not fitting blanking plugs to the unused pins in both ecu connectors - water entry point.

Another contributing factor was the steel plate above battery that was missing, allowing water to flow over the ebox instead of draining elsewhere. The only cheap part for a T5 that I could find at a scrapyard. Zero demand for those.

Weather permitting I will test to see if we can bypass etc.

Seems a fault with relay 109 throws up the traction control light on the dash and no noise from the fuel pump.

The relay was staying on due to the cable corrosion pushing the relay closed. Cleaned with oxalic acid etc. Working well now. Initially I thought the pins were joined by a plate but is actually connected together to a resistor. Current limiting for the ecu.

Pity it wasn't those three black wires..... This is an easy fix but not easy due to the design. I think somebody at vw was given solid works electrical as a birthday present and he/they/it really went to town fucking up a plain and simple job. Got to justify an overpaying job, looking busy etc.

Thanks T5 Tdi for all your time and effort, it is appreciated.

Edited by DaveHobie - 19 Feb 17 at 23:59
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

The WebThis site