The Brick-yard Homepage Brickwerks
Forum Home Forum Home > T3 Section > T3 Tech help
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - turbo boost
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedturbo boost

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
rocky View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 20 Jan 07
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Direct Link To This Post Topic: turbo boost
    Posted: 22 Aug 07 at 16:30
I am going to fit an intercooler to my 1.6 and understand that I may need to increase the turbo boost, due to the drop in PSI. How is this done? How is it measured? Thanks
Back to Top
mabrick View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie


Joined: 06 May 06
Location: Derbyshire
Status: Offline
Points: 360
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 07 at 21:32
As long as there are no leaks there will not be a drop in psi. There is an increase in volume, but once the engine is running this volume will filled and pressurised anyway. 
Back to Top
CaliforniaDream View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 07
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 07 at 22:43

??

Inlet pressure is not effected by fitting an intercooler, only the turbo to cylinder head side of the inlet manifold is pressurized so this extra volume, as you put, it is not pressurized.

An intercooler only serves to lower air temperature.

Lower air temperature equals denser air equals a greater volume of air which means more oxygen per combustion cycle, this combined with the turbo which takes that air and compresses it up to 1 bar above atmospheric pressure, means even more oxygen per induction cycle.

For any combustion to take place you need three things:

Fuel..............oxygen.................and ignition

If you can increase the volume of air OR the amount of oxygen within that air you can create a more powerful explosion/power stroke.

NOS is a prime example of this, inject a gas into the manifold which has a high oxygen content and you will expedentially increase the power per combustion stroke.

Turbo's increase the oxygen content by compressing the air in each induction cycle.

Afterall "air" does not contain that much oxygen, approximately 78% is Nitrogen, only 21% is Oxygen and the other percent in carbon dioxide and other gasses.

Using the otherwise wasted energy (moving exhaust gasses) to propel a turbine that compresses the inlet manifold air, not only makes the engine more powerful but it makes it more thermally efficient, that is to say, more of the fuel is turned into kinetic (moving) energy, so a turbo is often used to increase fuel economy ie on heavy goods vehicle engines etc which all have turbo's (more power from a smaller engine unit.

Martin

 

 

 



Edited by CaliforniaDream
On wings like angels whispers sweet

my heart it feels a broken beat

Touched soul and hurt lay wounded deep

Brown eyes are lost afar now sleep xxHayleyxx



Back to Top
Chappy View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar
Arriba! Yii-hah!

Joined: 08 Jul 07
Location: North O'Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 5062
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 07 at 22:55

The purpose of a turbo is to compress intake air, so you can get more air into the cylinders per charge - more air, more bang effectively.  When air is compressed though (by the compressor in the turbo) is also gets hotter and expands (this is bad!).  The object of an intercooler is to cool the compressed air, therefore allowing a 'bigger' charge into the cylinders.

Back in the slow lane, yeah!
Back to Top
Baxter View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Scruff Daddy

Joined: 29 May 04
Location: Huddersfield
Status: Offline
Points: 8048
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 07 at 23:44
More air means f**k all without more fuel to go with it.
Back to Top
T3ADICT View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 21 Jul 05
Location: LeightonBuzzard
Status: Offline
Points: 4211
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 00:38

 

fitting an air cooling system of some kind charge cooler or intercooler if effective makes the system more use its air better...

by fitting a cooling system you just giving the engine better quality air.. to a degree there will always be an improvement in combustion even without more fuel.

if the cooler is very effective and ALL Fuel going in is used then upping the fuel rate is needed.. but this is more the case when "MORE" air (ie higher pressure from the turbo) rather than more dence air s being fed to the engine..

 

WHY T3's.... because they are just so adictive, and having one just aint enough
Back to Top
rocky View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 20 Jan 07
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 08:10
Ah, so the long of it is there is no need to mess around with turbo boost, just " up " there fuel a nadge.
Back to Top
CaliforniaDream View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 07
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 09:06

Lets put it another way:

On a cold damp day your engine will be more powerful than on a hot summers day. So does that mean you have to turn the fuel up on a cold day? Nope!

In general the engine has many sensors that detect temperatures/oxygen content in the exhaust/manifold air pressure and air mass as well as crank position, so the ECU knows where it is in the combustion cycle and based on all the information from the sensors it adjust fuel delivery accordingly.

A manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP) is one of the sensors used in an internal combustion engine's electronic control system.The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). This is necessary to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn is used to calculate the appropriate fuel flow. (stoichiometry.)

An engine control system that uses manifold absolute pressure to calculate air mass, is using the speed-density method. Engine speed (RPM) and air temperature are also necessary to complete the speed-density calculation. Not all fuel injected engines use a MAP sensor to infer mass air flow, some use a MAF sensor (mass air flow).

On wings like angels whispers sweet

my heart it feels a broken beat

Touched soul and hurt lay wounded deep

Brown eyes are lost afar now sleep xxHayleyxx



Back to Top
SyncroSpares UK View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak

T3 Undertaker.

Joined: 18 Nov 04
Status: Offline
Points: 10000444
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 10:13
wow,do you know how a continium transfunctioner works???,cj.
Back to Top
peet View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar
Soft Southern Shite

Joined: 03 Jan 06
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 3319
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 18:53

Or how to rewire my flux capacitor? Tho gettin one of these babies up to 88.8 mph is hard anyway so not much shit'll happen anyway...

Thanx for the information tho chaps i have an intercooler fitted (badly) and am in the process of shifting it and getting ducting to it and wondered what the heck it did anyway! I reckon the oil cooler going on nex week will be more useful tho!  

Firefighter twisted Firefighter...
Back to Top
mabrick View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie


Joined: 06 May 06
Location: Derbyshire
Status: Offline
Points: 360
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 19:04
Originally posted by CaliforniaDream CaliforniaDream wrote:

In general the engine has many sensors that detect temperatures/oxygen content in the exhaust/manifold air pressure and air mass as well as crank position, so the ECU knows where it is in the combustion cycle and based on all the information from the sensors it adjust fuel delivery accordingly.

A manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP) is one of the sensors used in an internal combustion engine's electronic control system.The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). This is necessary to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn is used to calculate the appropriate fuel flow. (stoichiometry.)

An engine control system that uses manifold absolute pressure to calculate air mass, is using the speed-density method. Engine speed (RPM) and air temperature are also necessary to complete the speed-density calculation. Not all fuel injected engines use a MAP sensor to infer mass air flow, some use a MAF sensor (mass air flow).




Not on a standard T3
Back to Top
Tee3 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Coprophagous Cretin

Joined: 06 Jun 04
Location: Huddersfield
Status: Offline
Points: 9756
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 21:15
Originally posted by mabrick mabrick wrote:




Not on a standard T3


kinell, ive only just got my head around using the black pump at the petrol station, and you lot throw all this at me!

What I do know is that Diesel is the devils work. Theres no argument.
Smoke, mirrors, and a sacrifice every full moon are enough to keep you van running at its best...

However... in my over simplified world, this is how I see it...

My turbo diesel engine is a 1.6TD. No computer jimflippery, no sensors for this and ecus for that... just beelzebubs influence and suck, squash, squirt, bang...

It runs really nice on a cold day, in fact, really really nice...
On a hot day, its still nice, just not really really nice...

From this I deduce that my engine has one basic setting with regard to the density of the air... which seems to favour the chilly morns... so if i can cool the air a little on a hot day, i'm gonna get more really really nice days?

or is there summat i'm missing?






Edited by Tee3

YOU CANT EDUCATE PORK

http://www.tee3.co.uk/
Back to Top
Chappy View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar
Arriba! Yii-hah!

Joined: 08 Jul 07
Location: North O'Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 5062
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 22:10
I think that's a pretty fair and accurate summary.. 
Back in the slow lane, yeah!
Back to Top
CaliforniaDream View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 07
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 00:08

Brain fodder, chomp away.

 



Edited by CaliforniaDream
On wings like angels whispers sweet

my heart it feels a broken beat

Touched soul and hurt lay wounded deep

Brown eyes are lost afar now sleep xxHayleyxx



Back to Top
HOT 1200 View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie


Joined: 12 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 274
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 15:55

"Inlet pressure is not effected by fitting an intercooler, only the turbo to cylinder head side of the inlet manifold is pressurized so this extra volume, as you put, it is not pressurized"

Erm...thats odd, coz my intercooler is on the pressurised side of the turbo.........in other words the air route is

Airfilter to Turbo to Intercooler to Cylinder and out via turbo to exhaust....

GaV



Edited by HOT 1200
Bigger is not always better!
Back to Top
flatter4 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 24 Feb 06
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 76
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 07 at 09:59

An intercooler is, by definition fitted between the turbo and the manifold.
Manifold pressure will be affected by fitting one.  The air system is not static, it flows and the additional restriction of the intercooler and pipework to it will lower the pressure after it.
I don't know if the T3 turbo is wastegated, or where the wastegate sees it's pressure from (usually compressor housing, but sometimes direct from the manifold).

In summary you could up wastegate setting a bit, but to see real benefit you need to up fuelling, or you could just enjoy the engine running sweeter on more days....
You may also see better fuel economy as the engine will run leaner... however if you overcool the air you might get white smoke.

Let us know how you get on.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

The WebThis site