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2004 2.5 tdi VW lt 28 brake issues

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Cornwall87 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Dec 19 at 21:16
Yup pedal goes solid with the engine off, and the pedal creeps down with the engine started. Hopefully when vcds gets here I can properly purge the abs pump. I'm wondering if the new master cylinder could be knackered.
It doesn't feel good trying to stop it, theres just no force there at all.

Thanks for replying, I thought about the can of petrol solution too haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 19 at 20:20
The only thing left is the servo! If that doesn't sort it.... a can of petrol and box of swan vestas should haha.

If you pump the brake pedal with the engine off does it stiffen up, if it does, keep your foot on the pedal and start the engine, you should feel the vacuum assistance help draw the pedal lower.
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Cornwall87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 19 at 15:12
Brilliant thank you, I'll take the dash apart soon.

I've now replaced the master cylinder, the disks, pads and all calipers, the load compensating valve. Still the same.

With the vacuum entirely disconnected the brakes are about the same as with it on. I've bled and bled the system now. Its had around 3l of fluid.

I have vcds on the way but its coming from Australia so it may take a while.

The pedal falls away under pressure and it's not safe to be out on the road currently, it's like the brakes have no force at all, I'm running out of patience now Haha.
Thanks for your continuing help here 
Simon 
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mojo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 19 at 20:48
I have a feeling the previous owner may have removed a bulb or two from the dash. How long have you had the van?
There should be four abs sensors and the pain in the arse bit is they are a nightmare to remove (when they're fitted) and they are hard wired into the ecu, when replacing them the original wiring has to be cut and then join the new wiring/sensor. I fitted a weatherproof connector plug on my new sensor rather than hardwire it up again just for future convenience if the knuckle ever has to come off. I couldn't remember which warning light came on when the sensor was removed so I've just unplugged the abs sensor and checked, it's the immobiliser light (the yellow light on the right with the circular arrow) which comes on and stays on solid.
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Cornwall87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 19 at 22:58
So the rear one wasn't connected! It had a bung in the hole on the hub covered in a huge layer of crap! (I now feel stupid) but it was cable tied out of the way.
The front I can only find one? 

I don't think I have a light at all but I'll check in a minute. 

Thanks for your help and patience 
Simon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 19 at 21:31
I'm still trying to get my head around the abs issue, are you saying you have no abs/wheel speed sensors on the knuckles? Are you mistaking abs/wheel speed sensors with brake pad sensors by any chance. I destroyed an abs sensor when I was trying to remove it, I had to drive the van without the sensor while I was waiting for the new one to arrive and had the warning light constantly flashing on the dash. By the way the service manual says pry the sensor out with a screwdriver....yeh right! I had to remove the knuckle and it took lots drilling, lots of heat, lots of penetrating fluid, a vice, mole grips, a hammer and lots and lots of colourful language before the little blighter decided to come out.
Hopefully the new calipers will have you sorted.
Here's some pics of the abs sensor locations and the dash warning lights you should have on ignition.


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Cornwall87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 19 at 10:12
Morning all, little update, front brake calipers have been replaced, tried to soak the rear bleed nipples but the whole thing started to twist so I've had to get new rears too. 
Hoping that this sorts the problem now, but I have a feeling that I need a compensating valve too! 

Thanks for your help and advice here, I'll be able to fit the new back calipers as soon as they actually get here, hopefully that'll be problem solved, my brake pedal is still squishy and useless and the Van's not moved an inch in weeks.

Cheers
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Cornwall87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 19 at 23:21
Yeah I've got an abs pump, no warning lights at all. 
I can't get the van to a mechanic so I've ordered a new front pair of calipers. The rear bleed nipples look like they're in so much better condition so I'm soaking them in penetrating oil currently, hopefully that'll help.

Thank you for your help :) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 19 at 22:27
You may have a non ABS vehicle, is there an abs pump in the engine bay or an abs warning lamp on the dash on ignition ?
It's a shame you can't get the bleed nipples out they're only a couple of quid each to replace. Any local mobile mechanics who could help you out?
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Cornwall87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 19 at 18:20
Evening, I got the new master cylinder fitted but the bleed nipples wont budge resulting in a soft spongy brake pedal, I tried removing the brake line into the caliper to bleed but because the brake lines are springy I can't get enough fluid out, it just drips slowly.

Perhaps new calipers? 
The abs sensors have nowhere to go in 3 of the wheels but one has a place for it.
Could this be causing problems ? 

Thanks a lot for your help with this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 19 at 01:09
A trick I've used with rusted or snapped bolts etc is to build a few weld spots on them to get a grip, you could try this and buy some new bleed nipples (always thinking of the cheapest option). It's always worth putting things right especially if you'll have the van for a while, makes things easier when it comes to maintenance, service and repairs.
Regarding the vcds, if you have a spare laptop knocking about you could get your own vcds full (not the lite version) software and leads for around £50-60. Well worth the investment, it'll save you a fortune and a lot of guesswork in the long run, plus it's always good just to keep an eye on how things are running. I could message you some links if you decide to go for it. You would need elsawin to make sense of and compare all the live data you get from vcds.
I've never had any cold start/running problems with this engine so personally the webasto isn't something i'd consider. Get everything working/running right then decide if you want to invest in it, weigh up the pro's and con's, price, gains, possible failures, fitting more parts in a already tight workspace etc. Sometimes simpler is better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 19 at 13:58
Afternoon all, I've taken the master cylinder off and had a new kit for the seals but I couldn't for the life of me get the bottom piston out, seems like it's fixed down there? 
I've ordered a new cylinder now so I'm hoping itll be here Tuesday. The bleed nipples on the calipers are basically rusted spikes now so I think I'll have to bleed from the flexi hoses and hope that it works, I don't want to be buying new calipers but if I need to then itll have to be done. 

I'm debating adding a webasto thermo top c to preheat the engine with a manual switch on the dash, I don't have vcds yet but I know someone who has it, hoping to get him over soon.

Thanks for all your help and advice 
Simon 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 19 at 10:14
That's brilliant thank you so much.  

I don't have a bracket under the van either.  I don't know when the fluids were changed but as you've said that I'll get on it, the bleed nipples are pretty shot so I'll probably be looking at new calipers for ease of reuse, I'll then get some brake fluid,  the load valve has the top part of the actuator rusted out, I don't have much of a load but I'm starting to tear my hair out, it's so bad nobody wants to drive it at the moment, myself included. the calipers are looking pretty old and tired. I'm not losing any fluid and the colour looks ok but I'll check out prices for everything.


I'll get someone over with vcds and check out buy a copy of elsawin from an auction site as no doubt itll get some use.
I think Rosstech have instructions for the timing too so I'll double check.

Thanks a lot for your help and time, I'll get back when I have an update 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 19 at 08:45
Had a little look through elsawin and all the LT'S have slightly different vacuum set ups dependent on the engine code, some don't have an underbody vacuum resevoir and there is a 'cover cap' listed in the parts for such setups. Unfortunately it doesn't say which do and which don't.
If your van was built with the underbody vacuum resevoir it will have a welded bracket on the crossmember behind the fuel filter (see pic). I think the small globe resevoir must be for engine components, I have a long wheel base with the AVR engine which has both resevoirs.  
I checked my vacuum pump and the gauge slowly flickered all the way upto 18inHG and stayed the same even with increased revs.
The load valve always looks and feels slack unless you have a heavy load on, if that's what you mean by looking knackered.
 
Do you know when the brake fluid was last changed? I changed mine last year after the brakes felt a bit dull. I'd let it go a year or ten over schedule and the fluid in the resevoir was actually crystalising.

Regarding the smoking and the trouble code I'd check the diesel pump timing with vcds, elsawin will give you the procedure and specs for electronically checking the comencement of injection valve and the timing solenoid in the diesel pump.

Hope this helps, good luck with it and keep us posted how you get on.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tellytubby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 20:11
Oh and should add that smokey startup and smoke till warmed up is a common issue and has a multitude of possible causes.  Plenty of stuff to read here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tellytubby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 20:07
Can't find a specific vacuum hose diagram for the BBE engine, however I did find one reference as follows:

7 -  Vacuum hose
q    Engine codes ANJ, AVR: To vacuum reservoir.
q    Engine codes APA, BBE, BBF: To non-return valve between vacuum pump and brake servo.

So there might be no reservoir on this engine.  I imagine the remaining vacuum lines would still be similar though.

If your pedal is going to the floor you either have a fluid leak or as you have already guessed an issue with the master cylinder.  Master cylinders and load sensing valves are readily available and not very expensive and if I was going to change them I'd probably do all the brake lines at the same time ( have changed most over last couple of years piecemeal ).

The best source of info on these vans is ElsaWin - copies can be downloaded for not a lot of money.

TT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 19 at 18:06
Put a vacuum gauge on the vacuum pump today, idle is around 23in mg and the reading at around 2000rpm was between 25/27in mg.
I can't find a reservoir that looks like the ones in the images, would one of the globe ones be ok? 
The vac gauge needle was flickering around showing that it obviously needs a reservoir. 

The hose from the pump to the brake servo had been replaced now and the brakes work better now but not great at all. 
Wondering if the master cylinder is dead because the brake pedal now slowly creeps to the floor when its held.  
The load valve under the back looks pretty knackered too.

Any more ideas? The russek book doesn't even have the vacuum system in it! I thought I had a solution for it but I'm not any closer lol 

Many thanks again guys 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 19 at 22:50
Brilliant thank you, I have the bbe engine, would this be much different? I don't understand a lot if what I'm looking at currently,  I'm still waiting for the manual from russek.
But I don't have a reservoir anywhere in the van, I'm not sure what's happened to the van, but the brakes have been a recurring issue on the mot for a while by the look of it online. 
Love the van and I'm converting it to a camper but its annoying me now, the brakes have always been poor since I bought it in September but now its started building smoke which results in a smoke screen on acceleration for a mile, after a mile it's ok and the exhaust clears but the first mile is a heavy unburned diesel smell, vcds said the start of injection timing regulation, but I haven't got to the bottom of that yet.

Thanks a lot again
Simon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tellytubby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 19 at 22:22



1 -  Vacuum reservoir
2 -  Charge pressure control solenoid valve -N75-
3 -  Breather line
q    To filter.
4 -  Filter
5 -  Non-return valve
q    White connection to charge pressure control solenoid valve → Item and to vacuum reservoir.
6 -  Exhaust gas recirculation valve -N18-
7 -  To exhaust gas recirculation valve
8 -  Brake servo
9 -  Exhauster pump
10 -  Vacuum connection
q    For brake servo
11 -  Diesel direct injection system control unit -J248-
q    Connection to connecting pipe/charge air cooling (only a 68-pin control unit).
12 -  Charge air cooler
13 -  Charge pressure control valve
14 -  Air filter
15 -  To vacuum unit for intake manifold flap
16 -  Variable intake manifold flap change-over valve -N239-

vacuum pipe diagram for this model year - hope it helps you make sense of things.  It took me a few weekends to puzzle out the various pipes missing / disconnected from my engine when I got it - would not have sorted without diagram.

This is for 2.5tdi AVR engine - yours may be slightly different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornwall87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 19 at 18:37
This is the branch off from the vacuum pump, the yellow looking cap is what I think would go to the vacuum reservoir, theres no sign of a reservoir under the van.
I'm going to replace the vacuum hose to the servo/booster tomorrow, the brakes are better after removing the piece of biro that was stuffed under the tape.

Thanks for your help 
Simon


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