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EU...in or out...

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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: EU...in or out...
    Posted: 04 Sep 19 at 11:08
The tangled web they weave, by those that want to leave.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 19 at 12:19
Andrea Leadsom says that people voted for Brexit knowing that they were putting their jobs at risk. And how does Andrea contend that people knew this... ?

... Andrea says they were told in the government leaflet that was distributed to uk households that leaving the EU would put jobs at risk, except ...

... Andrea and her fellow Leave campaigners characterised the predictions from the governement as exagerrated ('Project Fear').

You couldn't make this stuff up...

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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 19 at 10:29
The UK leaving the EU would supposedly give us more control to determine our own future.
So what do folk think of the likes of Bannon and his ilk now having more influence?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 19 at 19:58
I've mentioned health services before on this thread, and that the Conservative party intend to implement the findings of the Naylor Report, which is basically sell off assets and privatise the English NHS.
The shiny new Brexit Party's Company's leader wants to do pretty much the same...

Here's the sort of thing you can expect once the free at point of need health services you currently have disappear.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 20:30
And so it goes on...


There's a reason we kicked Labour to touch up here in Scotland. They're just Red Tories and two cheeks on the same establishment arse.
C'mon tae funk England, you've got 50 million more folk to chose from than Scotland and yet you still elect a bunch of roasters.


Edited by danstervan - 12 Jun 19 at 20:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 22:39
Originally posted by DUCASSOS DUCASSOS wrote:

thought this was a motor forum ,not a leave /remainer site.???


We do comedy as well... Thumbs Up

...Although it is tied in with this EU thread. I haven't had a telly in 15 years so fortunately haven't witnessed much of this chap the UK is sucking up to. But Jeezo, this guy is a complete fuckin roaster. Shocked



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUCASSOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 19:45
Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 19:42
Originally posted by DUCASSOS DUCASSOS wrote:

thought this was a motor forum ,not a leave /remainer site.???


Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

P.S. This part of the forum is where we get to talk cobblers if we so desire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUCASSOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 18:58
thought this was a motor forum ,not a leave /remainer site.???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 19 at 18:37
The s*** piles up so fast you need wings to stay above it...

Ford to close Bridgend engine plant with 1500 jobs lost on site and many hundreds more lost in the supply chain.

At this point I think it's fair to say that if you still think that a No Deal Brexit, or indeed any kind of Brexit, will be beneficial for the UK then you've either got your hand in the cookie jar or you're a muppet.

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Edited by clift_d - 05 Jun 19 at 18:41
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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 11:20
The Conservative negotiated deal which the EU state is not up for renegotiation is effectively a hard leave, they can't get that through the commons. The default is no deal crash out. There is barely time to accomplish anything before October.
The Northern Ireland issue won't go away and if they fudge that it effectively breaks the UK Union as no constituent part of the UK can have an advantage over another.

I've said before, politicians have used divide and rule to gain or hold power for their masters for so long that they have now ended up dividing their own parties. They are fucked either way which is good because it might actually create an opening to implement a better modernised progressive system in England, like the fine English folk having a fucking parliament of their own instead of using the UK one as they currently do.
The equal union is effectively over, it just needs folk to finally realise this. But with crap media and arsebook most folk are still completely ill informed so don't hold your breath...

Still some good jobs up here and better quality of life for those thinking of heading up. That's what you get with a competent government, even with the limited powers they control.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 10:39
Interesting, but I think both those articles are assuming that everyone who stuck with Labour and the Conservatives is likely to be a hard Leaver and so could be counted on voting as such in any confirmatory ballot on a deal.

I suspect that is also an over simplification, and that there are a fair few people who stuck with both those parties who are more pragmatic, and who may be willing to honour the first referendum if a reasonable deal is presented, but who would not necessarily support a No Deal outcome.

In any case I think it's clear that there is no majority in the Commons for a No Deal, and any Prime Minister is currently bound by the requirement to win a confirmatory vote on the final terms of any deal.

However, that majority against No Deal also means that were PM BoJoZo, for sake of argument, to try crashing us out of the EU anyway, then there may be enough Conservative MPs that would vote with the opposition in a motion of No Confidence to trigger a general election. Country before Party, etc, etc.

Of course once we get to a general election then who knows what will happens, but I'm hoping that by the time we get to that point either Labour will have come off the fence, or the other Remain parties will have come to an arrangement that will allow one Pro-EU candidate per constituency to stand un-contested.


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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 00:44
I should have clarified that "getting on for half the vote" was in certain areas.

There's no way you can just leave out Conservative and Labour from the percentages for either leave or remain.
A bit of analysis on that subject in following link.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/all-change-and-no-change





Edited by danstervan - 04 Jun 19 at 01:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 19 at 23:00

Also, the 'definitely Leave' parties got a significant amount less than the 'definitely Remain' parties, if you discount the Conservative and Labour vote because neither of the two main parties can decide whether they're coming or going.

Definitely Remain = 40.4% (Lib Dem + Greens + Change UK + SNP + Plaid Cymru)

Definitely Leave = 34.9% (Brexit party + UKIP)

Labour = 14.1%

Conservatives = 9.1%

It's also worth noting that the Brexit Party actually received a smaller share of the vote than the combined loss in vote share for UKIP and the Conservatives, meaning the Remain parties picked up votes from the Conservatives as well as from Labour, suggesting a swing away from Leave.


Edited by clift_d - 04 Jun 19 at 00:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 19 at 21:16
Aye clift_d. It is remarkable that so much of what was stated earlier in the thread has come to be. I'm not stating that to gloat, more in disappointment that some saw this coming and tried to point it out to folk.
Getting on for half the voters in the recent EU elections voted for a party, sorry company, that had no manifesto and a leader that wants to privatise the health service for the benefit of his mates.
And yet again it highlighted the differing views of the constituent parts of the UK.

It was strange how this thread had no input for a few weeks with all that was going on with our strong and stable government.
Probably for the best as we may have fucked the BY server if we'd tried to keep the thread going with all the antics of the "UK political elite"*
* aka bunch of self-serving flip flopping shitebags.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 19 at 10:12
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

The US governement has now published a Summary of Specific Negotiating Objectives for any trade agreement that they might make with the UK

A few choice items:

"Establish a mechanism to remove expeditiously unwarranted barriers that block the export of U.S. food and agricultural products in order to obtain more open, equitable, and reciprocal market access." i.e. remove food safety standards that act as a barrier to US agricultural products;

"Establish state-of-the-art rules to ensure that the UK does not impose measures that restrict cross-border data flows and does not require the use or installation of local computing facilities." i.e. your personal data can be moved around, stored in the US where it will be accessible by the US government, and used as per US standards;

"Establish rules that reduce or eliminate barriers to U.S. investment in all sectors in the UK" i.e. remove barriers to US companies bidding for NHS contracts;

With regard to government procurement "Providing impartial administrative or judicial review authority to review challenges or complaints.", i.e. allow companies to sue the government if they don't get a contract.

"Provide a mechanism to ensure transparency and take appropriate action if the UK negotiates a free trade agreement with a non-market country", i.e. allow the US to take action over other trade agreements the UK might wish to sign.

"Provide mechanisms for terminating the Agreement under appropriate circumstances", i.e. presumably allow the US to unilaterally terminate any trade deal;

There are also requirements for fewer restrictions on GM and other bio-engineered food, and a whole section at the end on measures to prevent boycotts of any Israeli products or services for whatever reason.

What do you reckon the odds are of the US getting whatever they want in a negotiation with Liam Fox - 100% or higher than that?

Apparently..."The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" - Michael Gove, 9 April 2016


Don't say you weren't warned.

The US Ambassador has just reiterated that the above are going to be on-the-table requirements for a US-UK trade deal.

Since a US-UK trade deal is one of the few things No Deal supporters constantly tout as a supposed 'benefit' to crashing out of the EU, it's worth remembering therefore that if you cast a vote for the Brexit Party, or any candidate that favours a No Deal exit from the EU, you are lending your support to:

- Privatisation of NHS services

- GM foods, chlorinated chicken and hormone-enriched beef on our shelves

- Removal of many of the restrictions on the sharing of your personal data

- Allowing US companies to sue the UK government

If none of that seems like a bad thing to you, then you go for it, but don't say you weren't warned.

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Edited by clift_d - 03 Jun 19 at 10:13
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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 19 at 21:04
Live footage of the UK leaving the EU.  Ermm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boilerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 17:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote randolph57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 19 at 16:30
The Matrix has you.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boilerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 19 at 18:09
I voted remain. Not for any political reasons because democracy passes me by. I'd like to think that I'm a European rather than a George Cross wielding white English man, even though I'm half Irish. There was never enough truthful discussion at the time of voting for this to be a fair and (if you want) democratic act. Mostly because no-one knew what leaving really meant, so a new vote is only fair considering we now know how we will be affected, well nearly know.
I don't have the fear of the "foreigner" like many do, when you go to their countries you see how alike we really are, and in some ways more friendly too.

End of sermon
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