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Good mechanic in Bristol area

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Bundas View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Feb 14 at 20:36
Hi Guys,

I just moved to the UK recently, with my finished project Whitestar. I am running on a flipped audi gearbox and a 1.9 tdi with a Mechanical pump. 

I am not bad in smaller repairs and changes with spanners etc, but now I am seriously looking for some expert who could fine tune my engine. I wish to make the performance curve a little bit straighter. Now it starts pulling from about 1700rpm and does it to 3000-3500. I wish to wider this a little bit.  After drove more than 5k miles since the converion is done I tried it in many situations and have ideas what I would change, but I don't feel myself competent enough for this. 

If I would be at home I should know which engineer could do it but I am completely clueless here. 

So please recommend someone. I would take any advice. 

Thanks
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CHRISBBECK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CHRISBBECK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 14 at 11:05
MV Engineering are meant to be good from what iv'e heard 01952 581818
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monkey magic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 14 at 13:07
Do you know what pump was used, look up the governer mod, that will extend your rev range. Lots on this on vwdiesel.net
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bundas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 14 at 13:35
It revs properly up to 6000 rpm (or more, but don't want to try), just not pulls more over 3500. The main problem is the lower rpms. I was pulling the geometry on the turbo a little more, it's got better, but raises the peak pressure (1.8 bar now) and don't really want to go over it. I could pull more on the VNT arm of the turbo but I'll end up with 2.5 bars peak. Probably I should change the springs in the ball. But it still won't help on the problem that I'll cruise on very high turbo pressures continously.
Actually that link is pretty useful I am just browsing it and found some good stuff.   

It was a Fiat chroma/ducato pump, but with modified diaphragm, new pelat disc(if this is the name?) a 11m fuel element, Tdi back end, so it's abosolutely not a stock one. It's quite common to tune the pumps itself at home. 

BTW I contacted to MV Engineering already, I hope I can visit them sometime and they do a professional work on it with a real knowledge in their heads not just trying like me.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 14 at 18:24
I should have worded it differently, tweaking the governer will not just extend revs but extend useful torque deeper into the rev range, ie so it pulls beyond 3500, doesnt necessarily let it overrev tho.

Sounds to me like you must have some interesting VNT control device on there tho. I reckon tweaking thats where youll find what you want.. Also if the pump is as custom as you say, chances are gov mods been addressed.

Whats the nature of the controller? Lots of talk on that of the same site, worth understanding that i reckon
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Bundas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bundas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 14 at 12:54
Actually the VNT is controlled by a wastegate actuator. That causes that I am running too high pressures on highway if I increase the peak pressure. I did some search on that site but I won't say I become smarter. Not really any of the controllers working fine like controlled by electrics. I was thinking on putting in a dawes valve or similar, but I am not sure. I think injector is fine, governor has been modded already, probably needs some timing, but it's not really smoking (I've seen a lot what's much worse than mine) but Mtdi never be as smooth as etdi.   

Are you running on a VNT turbo? And how you control it if you have one? I am really interested. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 14 at 16:00
So its a mech control then, probably just too crude. Boost should appear when you put the boot down, not just when youre at decent revs. More power demand (ie more go pedal) = more boost up to boost limit. Just depends how its set to respond really. A well done mech control will mean you wont need the dawes valve, but without understanding exactly what your setup is we couldnt say for sure if it may benefit right now in the short term

Libbydiesel seemed to have got a mech VNT control system nailed, but I know he spat his dummy out a while back and removed all his posts (he subsequently rejoined). WHen I have a chance ill dig around the web and see if he posted same elsewhere.

No, I dont run VNT yet, but Im planning a fresh TDI build for my bus, and a mech controlled VNT will go in with that engine.

MTDI may never be as smooth as etdi, but I reckon it can get close enough not to matter. Specifically with turbo control, I believe its possible to have mech control be every bit as smooth as elec.

I think you can mess with the pump etc all day, but if you dont have an optimum control on the turbo then its gonna be flawed whatever else you do to it.

You should dig into the system youve got fitted right now, so we can try and understand it and maybe improve it.
So you have an actuator controlling the VNT, but what inputs does the actuator have? ie whats driving/controlling it? WHats it responding to? Stick some photos up, well try and figure it out. You could already be half way to the perfect mech VNT control.

edit: found this, read middle of 1st paragraph, that sums up core concept. Close vanes in line with power demand (ie pedal position) and back them off again at max boost. 2 inputs is all, pedal position and boost. No dawes valve needed.

libbys thread on samba

gotta go, ill read that page when i have chance tho, im in the mood to get my head round this system again, its the only things stopping me running a big ass VNT right now.

Edited by monkey magic - 21 Feb 14 at 16:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bundas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 20:42
My control is pretty easy the boost which goes to the LDA from the turbo is controlling the VNT (like a wategate). And the actuator itself is working with pressure instead of vacuum. 

Libby's thread looks interesting, I did some researches in the topic in various forums, and this VNT control doesn't look as easy. Mine was working quite fine but now it's not the best. I suspect some problem with the diaphragm inside the actuator. BTW I am thinking on converting the whole system to vaccum operated instead of boost, that's why I am thinking on a Dawes valve. It's not as expensive and difficult so maybe it worth a try before I go to this difficult throttle arm controlled things. Actually that's one of the reasons why I am considering an eTdi conversion now. To get rid of all this problems, have a nice chip and just enjoy the cruice because I once I bought the van for that..

There was/is a thread in this part of the forum when someone is complaining about his installation and I am pretty sure that it's almost nothing compared to what happened to me. I am trying to convert my bus to a good tdi since I bought it (about 4 years ago now), first I found a guy who promised he can do a eTdi converision - it was not working, tried it and there were a lot of problems in the cleaning up og the electronics, then I went to someone else who completely rebuilt it to mTdi, but then the turbo started to not working properly (sucked the oil in), so I went to someone else who rebuilt it again - I would say it was a very comprehensive thing, can see some pics of it in an other topic, but I still don't find it bulletproof. So I am looking for a rebuild/evolution nr4 now. You could imagine how long time was it, and of course a lot of investement. I spend almost all my income on this van in the last few years and the only way to get rid of the problems is to move forward. - cost a lot. At home, full refund is not possible, even if you are not satisifed you have to pay what you get unless you can't get your car back.. After spending more than 20k - in £ I am starting to be a little bit sad that this will never stop. This is the main reason why I've opened this topic to look for advices because I really wish to enjoy my car instead of always thinking about what could go wrong again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 21:48
Sounds like your system is defaulting to vanes closed, and as boost builds theyre opening up to reduce boost. Dead crude. You dont want the vanes defaulting closed from what i can understand. I see how a dawes valve would help now.

The way I read it, ideally accelerator should be closing the vanes (so default is open), and at max boost the vanes should be backed off again. It could be as simple as a cable from accelerator arm on pump to vane lever (closing vanes with foot down), with a boost can inline that extends near max boost (opening up vanes to regulate boost). The main issue I can see with libbys system now I understand it, is max boost will vary slightly according to revs and perhaps other factors, but the drift should be minimal, and should be practical. Certainly Libby is happy its useable. I should only talk so much about this really, im only saying what ive read and figured out, I havent done this 1st hand yet.

Understand why you just want to etdi it, nowt wrong with that esp. when you £Ks deep. Sussing the vane control would be best solution to me. Next easiest would be to pull the VNT and fit a wastegated turbo. For the record, my mtdi is a standard unmodded landy pump and standard wastegated turbo. Dead simple and no problems. Not rocket science. I want a bigger VNT turbo, and I want a custom pump etc, but im not unhappy with how it runs now. In your shoes Id deffo consider redoing the control as per libbys system, and second option up would be fit WG turbo, before pissing about with elec.

Another option is elec VNT controller, they are out there but im not sure how much DIY is involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 22:02


image shamelessy 'borrowed' from another forum, this is the cleanest way Ive seen yet of showing how libbys system can be set up. Tuning it would mean tweaking the pivot point positions, and possibly a dawes valve on the boost can so it doesnt start to back off the vanes until your desired boost is reached.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bundas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 22:23
That's how exactly my turbo works. Sorry I was not clear when I started. So the vanes are closed as default and it causes a lot of wear on the turbo, because it's starts running before even the oil pressure builds up. 

I did a lot research in VNT controlling too, and found some interesting methods too, but to be honest all ends up by controlling with the throttle lever. There are some difference between the designs, but the basics are pretty much the same I think I should design something what is similar to these. There is also an option I am considering, there is a guy in sweden, I guess Dieselmeken, and he specializes in mTdi engines, and maybe worth getting touch with him to have a look on my fuel pump, and recommend some VNT control method what he uses.

I was checking on electric VNT controls, but if I install that, what is the point of having a Mtdi and they are still look difficult.. 

The other option what I am thinking is a wastegate turbo, same size, because one other thing what not many people mentioning that a VNT on a mTdi is that all the vanes are get covered in charcoal(maybe, not sure of the english name?)and the geometry just simply stops working. And it happens quite often, since the smoke is not as perfectly controlled as on an eTdi. Other funny thing is increasing the size of the turbo. Gt15 is just simply too small, than I had a GT17 what was allright, after I went to GT20 which is perfect when runnig over 1800rpm, but just because of the size it's simply start working too late and the car becomes a little bit lazy at low rpms, especially with the long audi gearbox now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 23:41
re charcoal, soot is the word youre thinking of . As i understand with the method in image above soot isnt (as much) of an issue. As long as you put the pedal to the floor every drive out, youre making sure the vanes get moved thru their full range.

Re throttle controlling vanes, its not a bad thing imho, vanes should move with demand/load, which is more or less what the throttle represents. I thought of a few ways to fine tune a mech control, like making the connection between throttle and vanes non linear, and adding damping to slow the response of the vanes etc. I also like the idea of a hybrid system, same mech setout as the image above but with some electronics added to get revs and air flow input. But in a way that if it failed the basic mech control would still operate, just with less refinement. Ill certainly get a pure simple mech control working first then decide if its worth the hassle.

I half agree on what is the point, re elec VNT control, but at least its not as much to go wrong as a full etdi install, and its a lot less hassle. Admitted its not easy either, and theres few (if any) people to turn to for help if it doesnt work right. I reckon thats one just for the people who are into their electronics and coding.

GT17 seems like your best back up option, the point youve made on GT20 being lazy at low revs is the exact reason why the VNTs are so good. You get big turbo capacity, with less lag. Thats why I reckon the best solution for you may be to make a decent controller for your VNT. You've got everything else in place, its just the final piece in the puzzle that would make your install awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrhutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 23:53
all very interesting chaps...

and kudos to MM for doing the homework and persevering with the MTDi...  I know a few fellows have chimed in with the old "go ETDi" rants on occasion..  In my book it's all useful information and interesting to see what people do...  

Nowt more to add than that really!  but keep it up..

even if you all do prefer to use a lubricant as a fuel.


T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkey magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 14 at 00:30
Originally posted by mrhutch mrhutch wrote:

even if you all do prefer to use a lubricant as a fuel.

We cant all use solvents for fuel!!

Ive nowt against etdi really, both methods have their pros and cons, its just about horses for courses. The irony is I trained in electronics engineering, and I do tinker with elec stuff, but I hate the idea that stuff is more complicated than it needs to be. Also as a yorkshireman, not having to pay someone to chip my system every time I improve hardware (ie turbo injectors etc) is a bonus.
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