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    Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 15:25
With someone sat in the middle of the three seats in the front it's not always possible to have the tray open to plug in the cigaratte to USB adaptor. The adaptor looks like it will fit in one of the switch blanks I just need to identify an ignition switched wire behind the dash to connect it to. Anyone got any tips/suggestions?
Dremel and glue gun at the ready....

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 16:05
It's not too difficult to get into the back of the existing 12volt cupholder socket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 17:47
Or run a separate fused supply from the battery - that way you can leave your device on the dash to charge with the ignition off - after all a phone or similar is never gonna flatten the battery to the point where it won't start (within reason)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 19:19
On my 2004 Kombi the 12volt in the ashtray/cup holder is not ignition controlled, it's live all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cjohnson_uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 19:30
Might do the live all the time and disconnect/ tape over the charger light. The new battery seems much happier to have the doors open for 3 hours of cleaning than the old one.

To get to the back of the lighter socket is it easiest to take the tray out or is there a better way? Radio is out ready....

Thanks for getting back so quickly.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 12 at 16:31
Don't your interior lights shut down after 10 minutes or so with a door open?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 12 at 16:48
Originally posted by Berisford Berisford wrote:

On my 2004 Kombi the 12volt in the ashtray/cup holder is not ignition controlled, it's live all the time.

My panel van aint like that, it shuts down when the keys are removed, hence why I decided to use a separate fused supply direct from the battery


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 12 at 19:53
That's interesting ES. My early panel van works like Berisford's Kombi, but then I did tick a few electrical goodie boxes back when I ordered it so perhaps I got the Kombi spec.
To answer CJ's original question, I wouldn't try and find an ign switched supply for a second cigarette socket. I don't think there is one in the old fashioned sense. What seems like a switched supply at the back of the ignition switch is really a signal wire for the switch which is only capable of carrying a minute current.  Best to go with the fused permanent supply ES suggested. 
There are other choices for an ign switched 12v supply (for aftermarket audio etc) but not for the kind of current that a cigarette socket begs to be used for. Even though you only want to use it to plug in a USB device, it's guaranteed someone else in the future will need to use it to shave their legs or boil a kettle. Or both at the same time if you tee off the original ciggie lighter.
 
If you want fancy solution you could use a current sensing relay (similar to what would supply a fridge etc in a caravan of motorhome).  It can supply fat current direct from the battery but will only do this once the engine is actually running because it has a trigger wire from the alternator.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 12 at 20:27
Originally posted by T5 TDI T5 TDI wrote:

That's interesting ES. My early panel van works like Berisford's Kombi, but then I did tick a few electrical goodie boxes back when I ordered it so perhaps I got the Kombi spec.
To answer CJ's original question, I wouldn't try and find an ign switched supply for a second cigarette socket. I don't think there is one in the old fashioned sense. What seems like a switched supply at the back of the ignition switch is really a signal wire for the switch which is only capable of carrying a minute current.  Best to go with the fused permanent supply ES suggested. 
There are other choices for an ign switched 12v supply (for aftermarket audio etc) but not for the kind of current that a cigarette socket begs to be used for. Even though you only want to use it to plug in a USB device, it's guaranteed someone else in the future will need to use it to shave their legs or boil a kettle. Or both at the same time if you tee off the original ciggie lighter.
 
If you want fancy solution you could use a current sensing relay (similar to what would supply a fridge etc in a caravan of motorhome).  It can supply fat current direct from the battery but will only do this once the engine is actually running because it has a trigger wire from the alternator.   

I had thought along those lines too but felt it was overkill for my application, plus I wanted it to be permanently live (even though this inherently means there is a chance of draining the battery)

The best relays are the voltage sensing type and don't need any wiring except a fused plus and minus from the battery, it then lets power through only when the voltage goes over a certain threshold (i.e. when the engine is running and the charger outputs 13+ volts) and turns off agin when the voltage drops (i.e. less than 13V when the engine is off and not charging)

As T5TDI says be careful about what you connect to, some of the switched lives that turn on/off with the key may well be "trigger" wires that arent really suitable to do much "work" (i.e. carry much current)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cjohnson_uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 12 at 22:35
Its in.  Trashed one cigarette lighter sub socket when soldering to the board inside. 2nd time I just soldered to the outside connections of my remaining socket adaptor.  Made it a bit more difficult to get back through the dash but its in.  Tapped into two of the three wires coming out the back of the ash tray.  Got to them from behind the panel under the passenger side air bag. 

Managed to have one screw left over!  The metal clip that you screw it in to on the rhs of the passenger footwell on the side of the plastic below the gear stick near the floor dropped off the plastic it was stuck to.  When it fell it sounded like it fell some way.  Reaching into the gap behind the panel it seems to be a fairly large hole. 

Doh!

Thanks for the pointers.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berisford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 12 at 08:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cjohnson_uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 12 at 21:18
This is what it looks like.

Dash mount USB in switch blank
I was swearing too much to take photos under the dash!

Just hope its not too bright when driving.

Its worth getting a blue one to match the other dash lights!  ;-)
ChrisJ : S. Yorks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 12 at 21:20

Those cheap (poundland etc) extending magets are good for retrieving stuff that disappears.  Embarrassed 

 
Nice to hear someone actually bothering to post a fix or the result of work carried out.  Thumbs Up 
 
So you have have gone for the tee off the front ciggie lighter but why tap into two wires? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 12 at 21:39
Where did you get the USB socket and bits and bobs etc?
 
Would be good for phone charging at one socket for sat nav, phone and of course VW crap Ipod link that dosen't charge the Fecking ipod when in use.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cjohnson_uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 12 at 22:51
re "why tap into two wires"

There were 3 wires going to the cig lighter, 2 fat and one thin.  I assumed that the 2 fat were the feed and return / live and earth for the socket and the 3rd one was for the light although I'm not sure.   As I wanted replicate the supply to the back of the new socket I used the existing connections.  So I just connected both the fat wires to a length of twin core and then used a circuit tester to find out which was which in terms of connection to the centre or the outside of the existing lighter socket.  I then soldered a 6 inch length of wire with spade connectors directly to the back of the usb charger to make it easier to thread through the dash etc


I took the blank out and tried using a spade type drill bit to cut a 22mm hole (check before drilling as this is from memory, not a confirmed fact).  This did not work as I don't have a suitable vice to hold it still so I broke out the dremmel and drilled a series of small holes around the circle made by the spade bit.  I then used another dremmel bit to cut the insides out and then a sanding "cylinder" to tidy it up repeatedly testing the fit until it made a tight fit.  Once it was all tested as working I taped the socket in place in the switch blank to stop it twisting and then filled the back of the blank with a hot glue gun (quick note here if you drill the glue later it remelts and makes it much easier to remove but beware as it spins off everywhere like hot candy floss).
Then pull the wire out the hole from behind the dash and connect the spades the right way round, check the light comes on, tape up the connectors, remove the tape off the front (from glueing) and push the wire back in and the switch blank into place.  Its a tight fit getting the usb socket through the hole behind the blank (hence my failed attempt at removing the case) but it will go if you've kept all the wires tidy.

That's it.

Next job is to do one in the blank for the passenger airbag switch in the glove box so that we can charge kit whilst out of sight.

It was much easier with the radio out to thread the wires back and forth.  Wel worth the time taking it out.

Hope this helps.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 15:49
Nice write up Chris. Clap  The light is fed directly from the live part of the socket.  So the thinner wire is a bit of a mystery.  It goes to a junction under the passenger's seat.  It must be feeding something smaller that needs a permanent supply.  Brown is earth as usual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kev The Gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 17:16
Originally posted by cjohnson_uk cjohnson_uk wrote:

This is what it looks like.

Dash mount USB in switch blank
I was swearing too much to take photos under the dash!

Just hope its not too bright when driving.

Its worth getting a blue one to match the other dash lights!  ;-)

Nice work, kicking my self now 3 days till trip to france 4 kids only 1 charging socket which is needed by a Tom Tom 15 months old and a dead battery Angry

I started planning the extra sockets months ago !

Is there a maximum load these usb sockets can provide as some devices need more ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 21:01
Hi Chris, you should PM Oringina about putting this in the modifications section. It'll go well with all the other excellent T5 how-to-do's and mods there. Thumbs Up 
I have to admit at first I thought you were talking about a second cigarette lighter socket (doh!) Still I did catch up later!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote traversd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 22:52
Originally posted by Kev The Gas Kev The Gas wrote:


Originally posted by cjohnson_uk cjohnson_uk wrote:

This is what it looks like.

Dash mount USB in switch blank
I was swearing too much to take photos under the dash!

Just hope its not too bright when driving.

Its worth getting a blue one to match the other dash lights!  ;-)


Nice work, kicking my self now 3 days till trip to france 4 kids only 1 charging socket which is needed by a Tom Tom 15 months old and a dead battery Angry

I started planning the extra sockets months ago !

Is there a maximum load these usb sockets can provide as some devices need more ? 


Get one of them 1 cig socket to three cig socket adaptors from Halfrauds ?
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