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Timing? (Wychall/Charlie?)

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ELVIS View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Sep 15 at 21:45
Or anyone else

SA 2.3. Runs a tad hot, fan comes on in heavy traffic tad to quickly, judders when just coming off over run as if in to high a gear, engine bay gets a tad hot, pinks a bit, isn't totally smooth.

Looked on forums and found this

http://syncrosa.co.za/forum/showthread.php?tid=1885&highlight=Timing

Have found the five pin plug ok, BUT there is a factory style jumper that is bridging the terminals 2 and 4 , pushed into the OBD and its been in there a while.

On the engine lid there is a factory sticker that is partially torn but does say the five pin plug that has a jumper across pins 2 and 4 should be in place when timing is done and set to 6'.

Unless I am misunderstanding the situation, plug jumper in, set timing to 6' , remove plug.

I guess the way to check for sure is to put a strobe on it with jumper in and without and see what happens to timing.

What confuses me though is I put a post on one of the SA forums and was told to leave it in.

http://www.syncrosa.co.za/forum/showthread.php?tid=2431&pid=17995#pid17995

Syncromad replied on both and unless I have got the wrong end of the stick, his advice in the two threads contradicts. On Ian's the plug goes in to set timing, on my thread he says to leave it in all the time.

Spoke to Ian and he doesn't have a jumper on his, just a plain cap to keep poop out of the terminals but with no jumpers on when he drives his.

Removed the jumper tonight and it's cured all the afore mentioned symptoms.

Proper confused.

Can get pics tomorrow.

Anyone shed any light?

Edited by ELVIS - 30 Sep 15 at 21:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wychall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 15 at 20:52
Hi Elvis. Unfortunately I am unable to offer any advice as the 2.5 does not have the electronics, ie no obd port.
However, I have had a read of the two za threads and agree that they are conflictling. I would agree with you that the dongle plugged into your obd sounds like a timing tool that shouldn't be there. It 'may' have a secondary use for stopping the timing advance temporarily if you need to run low grade fuel but I don't see it being advisable for longer tem use.
Sounds like you keep that in your toolbox for the next time you check the timing.
South African 1991 2.5i 5cyl Microbus - virgin, not campered - piloted by Brian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 19:54
The connector in the diagnostic plug is always in, it give the system an indication of what fuel is used in the bus. See the PDF file I make in my Dropbox at link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw3qw9jlroy3bad/Microbus%20Timing.pdf?dl=0

With the connector connected if you rev the engine and watch with a timing light you can see the timing fluctuate.
Remove the connector, bridge point 2 & 4 ( now the timing do not fluctuate anymore)
Rev the engine 2000RPM (do not know way) and set timing to 6°  -- some models have timing marks on the flywheel but it difficult to see -- I make a 6° mark on my pulley.
Afterwards refit the connector. On the PDF file there is an indication of which connector it suppose to take (info from vw manual) but I saw Microbusse with yellow connectors. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 21:01
Cheers chaps.
Will post a pic tomorrow as really confused now!!
You say remove connector, bridge two and four, time, replace connector?
My connector DOES bridge 2 and 4 with all the other pins blank?!?!
Are there two and I am missing the correct one for normal road use?
Sorry for being thick!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 21:26
Gotcha! Now need to establish if my plug is a 'workshop tool' to bridge the pins or the daily driving one with resistor in.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 15 at 21:00
Do not know if there is a "workshop tool" that fit in the plug, VW testers have two wires you have to connect to each other, we use a piece of wire with two terminals.

The system do not include a knock sensor for timing adjustment. The ignition timing and fuel map could be altered for different octane fuel by connecting a calibrated resistor in the form of an "octane coding plug" in the ECU wiring loom, the resistance depends on the octane adjustment required. With no resistor attached the system would default to 98 octane. Maybe that is way it perform better with no connector in the plug.

My 2.6I connector is grey and the resistor is 1K ohm. Never driven without it, but if I bridge it the timing stay on 6°.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 15 at 22:13
Cheers Merlin.
Confession time, looked at plug and it's grey, looked closer and what I thought was a solid piece of wire is actually a resistor so, panic over and apologies for my stupidity!

However, I only ever use 97 , run without plug or with?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mitch993 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 22:33
I run mine with the 'coding plug'(Grey) connected, using 95RON fuel.
See copy of page from owners manual below



Edited by mitch993 - 06 Oct 15 at 07:22
Paul Mitchell, SA 2.6 microbus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 15 at 18:55
If everything else fail, read the manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 15 at 19:37
Ok......

Timing!

Put the strobe on it with jumper and strobe at 6' and the only obvious mark on bottom pulley was miles out! Kept upping strobe and got to 42'+ until it lined up with the nipple on tinware!

Monday, if I stick a piece of welding wire down #1 (hopefully it is cylinder nearest pulley and not flywheel like rest of VW stuff?) , find number TDC, is there a mark on flywheel?

Cam cover off, make sure it's near TDC and work from there?

Questions

Is number 1 at pulley end?
Is flywheel marked at TDC in number 1?
Is pully only have one notch and if so is this 6'?
What are the camshaft marks I am looking for? Dots dimples lines letters?

Ta!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wychall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 15 at 20:12
I've not delved that deep into mine for a while, so it is outside of my memory span. I do however have a copy of a VW workshop manual for the 2.2 engined Audi 200 which is pretty similar. Have a look and see what you think, about page 27.


Hope it helps.
South African 1991 2.5i 5cyl Microbus - virgin, not campered - piloted by Brian.
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