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Timing marks not lined up

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    Posted: 06 Dec 19 at 12:47
My engine cover is starting to feel like a pandora's box: every time I open it to check something I find a lot more problems that I was expecting to see.

Just noticed that the timing marks on the flywheel and the injection pump belt don't match up, in fact they're not even close. Makes sense because I was having trouble starting, that's why i opened the cover in the first place.

Last time I had a look at the marks was 5/6 months ago (when we replaced the belt after it broke) and it was about half a tooth out. Van was running fine so i figured it was close enough.

I have two questions. Sorry if this is obvious stuff but I still have a lot to learn:

1. Why might this have happened?

2. To re-align the marks, is it enough to lineup the flywheel onto TDC, take off the Inj. pump belt, spin the crank on the Inj. pump around until the marks are aligned, and put the belt back on again?

Thanks as always Yardies!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monster LT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 20:46
I'd go and count the number of teeth on that waterpump just to be sure. If yours is an ACL then it should be 18 tooth. A rushed mechanic may not even consider this and just force the belt on regardless.
Check everything over again yourself. Even take it all apart, get new belts, tensioner, water pump etc and re-do the job properly to the correct torque & specs so you know it's done right. Don't cut any corners. Do it by the book. Make special tools if you need to or buy them as it'll pay back in the longrun (you can always sell 'em again too). Same with fuel pump side. Re-time everything.


Edited by Monster LT - 09 Dec 19 at 20:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 20 at 23:09
Hey Monster LT didn't see your response til now, but yes, that's what i did!

Everything seems good for now, lets see how it works out over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 20 at 23:46
Originally posted by Monster LT Monster LT wrote:

 If yours is an ACL then it should be 18 tooth. 

Are you sure? When I was searching for parts online and later in the shop, when I entered the details of the engine all the pumps it gave me were with 20 teeth.

The pump I pulled out of there had 18 teeth and looked very old. I assumed they'd taken something it from a scrapyard.

Hope I didn't put the wrong one in there Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 00:04
Had a look at it on the Brickwerks page and you cant see from the picture how many teeth there are. Tried sending them a message but the 'ask a question' function didnt work on my laptop.

Googled the OEM which was written on the Brickwerks page (074 121 005 MX) and on all the photos where you can see the teeth looks like 20.

Monster LT, please let me know why you recon its 18, if I've put the wrong one I'd better find out sooner rather than later!

Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monster LT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 17:20
As I know and have said it's 18 not 20. The parts shops have the wrong one listed. If you took off an 18 tooth pump you need to replace with an 18 tooth pump. Unlkely the original came from salvage. How the heck did you get the cam belt on with it being 20 tooth???Wacko Must have been a struggle! See my post about my Cam belt replacement experience. It's all there with pictures. Steep learning curve since then.


Edited by Monster LT - 06 Jan 20 at 17:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 14:16
Originally posted by Monster LT Monster LT wrote:

Unlkely the original came from salvage. If you took off an 18 tooth pump you need to replace with an 18 tooth pump. 

What I meant was that maybe the garage had changed it (as i paid them to) but instead of putting in a new pump had taken something from scrap. Due to the bodge they'd done on everything else, I didnt have much trust that anything that garage had put in there was what was supposed to be there.

Still, may well be that they didn't change it at all and it was the original still in there... after 200,000+km!Dead

Anyway, we only noticed the difference in number of teeth once we got the old pump out and put it on the table next to the new one. Before we put it in we had a good check on parts sites (incl. Brickwerks) and saw almost exclusively 20 toothers listed for ACL.

I remembered that you'd had trouble getting the belt on the 20-toother & re-read your post but as far as i understood you never actually got it on and ran the engine with it on. I decided to give it a try, and if it went on smoothly to trust the parts database. Figured that it wouldnt be listed that way if 20-toothers werent compatible, so many people would've had problems by now.

Wasnt that hard to get it on at all, went pretty smoothly actually. Engine turned fine by hand so put everything else back in and it runs fine too (so far!) New pump is Dolz A-154 which has the added bonus of guidance rails on the edges.

I will keep you updated how it goes.
 

 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monster LT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 18:00
Originally posted by Junk Junk wrote:

I remembered that you'd had trouble getting the belt on the 20-toother & re-read your post but as far as i understood you never actually got it on and ran the engine with it on. I decided to give it a try, and if it went on smoothly to trust the parts database. Figured that it wouldnt be listed that way if 20-toothers werent compatible, so many people would've had problems by now.

Wasnt that hard to get it on at all, went pretty smoothly actually. Engine turned fine by hand so put everything else back in and it runs fine too (so far!) New pump is Dolz A-154 which has the added bonus of guidance rails on the edges.

I will keep you updated how it goes.

Guidance rails? What do you mean by that? If you mean a wide screw slot, then that is designed for the older engines which the pump position is adjustable to get the correct tension. All ACL's as far as I know have a self adusting pulley so no need for that "guidance rail". Definitely the wrong part. The fact that the pump is adjustable is probably how it went on so easily. I'd be very cautious about using your current setup. It's not to spec. You need to look for a pump for a T4 with 18 teeth. Not all T4 pumps are 18 tooth. This is the 18 tooth https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-PUMP-VW-TRANSPORTER-T4-1990-2003-New/333357317442?hash=item4d9da4fd42:g:3rcAAOSw--9eFFmX Highly possible your garage couldn't get their heads around the issue and lefy the old one in. Does the one you took out look old? Does the pulley run smooth? Any signs of leak from the little weep hole? What's the part number of the one that came off? Search using that number to compare. Does it have the VAG logo? The 20 toother I bought was febi and they sell a smaller cam pulley to replace the original should you use their pump - that otherwise won't fit. Check your cam pulley too for VAG logo and part number - maybe that's been changed in the past.
The original OEM pump I removed - 054121019A
The pump I used https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIRST-LINE-ENGINE-COOLING-WATER-PUMP-OE-QUALITY-REPLACE-FWP1710/142064583322?epid=249003542&hash=item2113b5829a:g:8wsAAOSwCWFY8Bzv

Since you reminded me I've just bought the next 10years supply of water pumps for my truck.


Edited by Monster LT - 07 Jan 20 at 19:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 11:20
Yeah, thats the same OEM as the the old pump that was in there. Had the VAG logo so good chance it was original... 200,000+km and 25 years old.

By guidence rail i mean on either sides of the crank there is a raised lip, so that the belt doesnt stray too far on either side. But yes, it also had the wide screw slots. Its this:

CryCry  I recon you're right about this... I just really didn't want to take that vibration dampener out again for the next couple of years! CryCry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monster LT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 12:47
You don't need to mess with the crank pulley or new belt just pull the pump and replace with correct one. If it's dolz it should be...
A178 DOLZ
There's a bargain offer on ebay if you look now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 13:20
You mean, take out the bolts of the water pump, bend the back cover out of the way, replace the pump and bend the cover back over it? That was my plan.

(By back cover i mean the metal plate between the timing system and the engine, i dunno what its real name is)

Going to parts shop today to pick up another order. Gonna order the new pump. Havent got internet banking so fleabay isnt an option. Thanks for finding me the Dolz part number and thanks for convincing me not to be a lasy bastard and ignore an obvious problem!
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