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Timing belt broken while driving

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    Posted: 13 Apr 19 at 22:02
hello brickies!

I read the forum a lot but dont post much, but after what happened today i thought it would be worth sharing my experience.

Was driving on the french motorway and the engine cut out while driving and wouldnt start again. Managed to get the van off the road with the help of some friends and we opened up the engine cover to find the timing belt broken and hanging free like the undone belt around my jeans at the end of a long day.

Thats the timing belt at the back by the way, the one for the fuel pump. The f'ed up part is that i got it changed in a garage 2000km ago, the belt is so new its still got the text on it.

Has anyone had this experience before, a new belt breaking on them? We were wondering if something might have gotten caught in the fuel pump, creating tension which broke the belt.

Advice on what might have happened and how to check it appriciated, as are similar experiences you may have had.

Its an LT35 TD from 1995 (LT 1)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 19 at 23:08
Know nothing about diesels mate but you can download the manuals for free.
LT28 1979 2.0 Pampas Nevada Camper LPG 93K, 1980 T3 A/C Camper 98K,1994 RRC 3.9 LPG 120k , 1998 Audi A6 Est 2.5 V6 diesel 127k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 19 at 16:38
on closer inspection today we saw that 7 of the teeth were ripped off the belt next to where it snapped, looks like there was a moment of great tension.

spoken to a few people, heard a few different opinions about what might have caused this:

-the mechanic who replaced the belt didnt do the pressure properly
-the diesel pump got stuck somehow, causing the belt to be pulled very hard
-the belt itself was of shitty quality. Its a brand ive never heard of 'SKF'. one observer pointed out that these belts should have metal thread running through them (inside the rubber) to give strength, whereas this one is just rubber.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 19 at 17:56
skf are decent stuff, if it’s stripped the teeth something has most likely locked up, I would check to see if the pump rotates, if it’s just the fuel pump belt fit another and turn it over a few times by hand before starting it, it could quite easily be a faulty belt but it’s not very common
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 19 at 18:17
Presumably the fuel pump is driven by the camshaft etc, you need to check this out too.
Pumps are self lubricating via diesel, if there is a leak it could have run dry.
LT28 1979 2.0 Pampas Nevada Camper LPG 93K, 1980 T3 A/C Camper 98K,1994 RRC 3.9 LPG 120k , 1998 Audi A6 Est 2.5 V6 diesel 127k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buss Marius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 19 at 10:15
The main cambelt in front of the engine run the camshaft, and the camshaft in the other end run the dieselpump. So it is 1 of 3, 1 the diesel pump has got stuck, or is harder tu turn, 2 there has been mad a mistake when the cambelt was instaled, to hard or to loose or 3 there has been som fault With the cambelt.

SKF was the mother Company when Volvo was founded and is/was the leading roller bearing produser of the world. SKF means Svenska Kulelager Fabriken= Swedish Rollerbearing faktory. Volvo is latin for "I am rolling"
87 Karmann LT L 2,4D. 89 T3 Syncro Reimo 1,9TD. 2000 T4 Caravelle TDI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 16:09
Originally posted by 912 912 wrote:

I would check to see if the pump rotates, if it’s just the fuel pump belt fit another and turn it over a few times by hand before starting it

Did this and the pump rotated. Put a new belt and drove the last 400km to home without problems. 

Only noticeable difference is that the exhaust gives out more smoke than before. In any moment where the engine has to struggle (getting up speed after changing up gear, trying to go uphill in too high a gear) then it gives out smoke more than it used to.

Originally posted by AndyT AndyT wrote:

Presumably the fuel pump is driven by the camshaft etc, you need to check this out too.
Pumps are self lubricating via diesel, if there is a leak it could have run dry.

Dont think theres a leak as straight after the car broke down i had a sniff around and couldnt smell diesel anywhere.

What exactly do you suggest i should check for?

Originally posted by Buss Marius Buss Marius wrote:

1 the diesel pump has got stuck, or is harder tu turn, 2 there has been mad a mistake when the cambelt was instaled, to hard or to loose

do you think its possible the pump got stuck, even when it managed to drive me 400km after we put on a new belt? owner just told me that the pump was newly fitted two years ago.

Now ive got the new belt on there, how tight should i make it?

The mechanic who fitted the broken belt also fitted my other timing belt (the camshaft one) and the water pump. Im worried that if they fitted the broken belt badly then maybe also there could be problems at the other end. Anyone got any advice on how to check if the camshaft timing belt is fitted properly? Do you think its worth replacing that too, for the sake of safety?






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 17:15
If there isn't any diesel reaching the pump you won't smell anything, old fuel lines perish and can block the fuel supply likewise an old filter. Personally I'd replace them all even if the problem is something else. I hope it's not the pump cos it ain't cheap to fix. Deisel Bob has a good reputation if that's the case. Good luck.

P.S download the diesel engine manuals, might help.


Edited by AndyT - 27 Apr 19 at 17:18
LT28 1979 2.0 Pampas Nevada Camper LPG 93K, 1980 T3 A/C Camper 98K,1994 RRC 3.9 LPG 120k , 1998 Audi A6 Est 2.5 V6 diesel 127k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 17:40
I also hope its not the pump!

Sorry if Im being an idiot, but surely if fuel wasnt reaching the pump then the engine would already stop on account of lack of fuel? And if there was a block in the fuel line, how was the van able to continue running after a new belt was fitted?

Anyway, I will take your advice and change all the fuel lines, i wanted to do it at some point anyway.

After a big session with brick-yard search engine I'm tempted to think that the reason why i have more smoke coming from the exhaust since the new belt was fitted is that the timing was done slightly off.

Any advice on checking the fuel pump timing appriciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 17:48
Download the engine manuals!!!

LT28 1979 2.0 Pampas Nevada Camper LPG 93K, 1980 T3 A/C Camper 98K,1994 RRC 3.9 LPG 120k , 1998 Audi A6 Est 2.5 V6 diesel 127k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 22:09
Diesel Manual downloaded, i've had my nose buried in it all afternoon.

Originally posted by Buss Marius Buss Marius wrote:

2 there has been mad a mistake when the cambelt was instaled, to hard or to loose

So, i'd like to check the tension of the two timing belts BUT the manual suggests using a special tool (VW210) which I cant afford.

I found another thread on brick-yard where someone says that you can test the tension by hand, that you should just be able to turn it by 90degrees.

How precisely tensioned do the belts need to be? Should it be enough to just check it by hand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monster LT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 22:10
Does sound like the pump got stuck somehow. Could be a foreign object that got displaced once the damage was done. Yes it sounds like the pump timing is out since refitting the belt. In a recent previous post I added a link to a youtube vid showing timing of the VE pump on a D24. Here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWyhxPM9TOE
and here is another good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTXAm4P6nXU
Hope this helps you.


Edited by Monster LT - 27 Apr 19 at 22:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 19 at 20:49
Originally posted by AndyT AndyT wrote:

Personally I'd replace them all even if the problem is something else.

Im gonna do this tomorrow.

Some of my fuel lines are made of black rubber, some of them are made of some kind of black woven fabric material which looks like a fat shoelace.

At the reccomendation of a friend Id like to replace it all with see-through tubing, so I can easily see how the diesel is flowing, and troubleshoot problems with fuel flow better.

What do you guys think, should i try and replace them with the original material, or would it be ok to use see-through tubing for everything?

Sorry if im asking stupid questions & thanks for all the helpful advice.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monster LT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 19 at 23:57
The 'fat shoelace' is just an over-braided rubber hose. It is possible to use clear hose instead. You'll need to find 3.5mm ID hose that can cope with diesel fuel. You can get this size from DIY shops like B&Q.


Edited by Monster LT - 01 May 19 at 00:07
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