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Scruff Daddy

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The definitive smokey JX thread.
    Posted: 03 Dec 08 at 22:23
 
The first thing to do is set it into a good state of tune, put it back to where it should be, so, before you start f**king about with things you don't understand then check/set the following or get them done proffesionally.
Lots of engines have been written off as knackered due to simple service operations that have not been carried out.
 
Simple service
 
Oil and filter change, good quality oil filter (not Unipart or Fram!!) and refil with 15w40 mineral oil, you don't need anything fancy with these engines.
 
Replace the air filter and make sure the inlet tract to the turbo is un broken and clear of blockages.
 
Replace the fuel filter and bleed it properly to expel any air, you can either prime it with fresh Diesel (messy) or connect all the pipes up except the outlet to the pump and then using a vacuum pump draw fuel from the tank into the filter (not messy)
 
Tappets
 
Set the tappets, yes they need setting and no they aren't hydraulic as some people think, this is the single most over looked service item on these engines and generally the cause of mis diagnosed engine replacements. They are of the bucket and shim veriety so the idea is you set the engine to TDC on which ever cylinder you are setting and compress the buckets with the appropriate tool and lift the shim out and replacing it with the correct size shim to set the gap between the shim and the cam.
 
The spec is as follows
 
Inlet .2mm to .3mm
Exhaust .4mm to .5mm
 
They are to be set with the engine stinking hot and the rocket cover gasket is to be replaced afterwards or they leak, but leave it off for the mean time.
 
Cam timing
 
Set engine to TDC via the inspection hole in the bell housing, there are 3 marks in there, you only need the middle one, so..
You have an uppy one, an inny one and then an uppy one again, it's the inny one in the middle thats the TDC mark.
 
rather like this...   ----^-v-^----
 
Then, remove the rocker cover and with your special tool that you bought before you started place it into the back of the cam to check that the crank and cam are perfectly in time.
The timing peg should also fit into the injection pump sprocket and lock securely into the injection pump mounting bracket.
If you are in any doubt about your cambelt you need to change it along with the tensioner.
The cam belt sprocket is of the "wedge mated" design, meaning there is no woodruff key and it is infinatley adjustable.
If your cam timing is out and you need to reposition the cam sprocket in relation to the cam then slacken the nut and tap the pulley with a punch from the rear through the hole in the cam belt cover to crack it off.
 
Pump timing
 
Again, another critical over looked service item, while you have the rocker cover and cam belt covers off you might as well check/set the pump timing.
Not rocket science either, but you need some special tools in the form of a DTI and pump timing adapter.
 
While the engine is at TDC on number one install the pump timing adapter and then fit the DTI with a couple of mm of preload.
 
Wind the engine backwards (without the timing peg in the pulley and the setting bar in the back of the cam!!) until the needle on the DTI stops moving.
 
Zero the DTI
 
Wind the engine back up to TDC.
 
Measure off the timing reading.
 
factory setting is .9mm of lift at TDC although it is generally regarded that 1mm of lift is best for performance, cold starting, fuel economy and lower EGT's.
 
If the reading is out of spec you need to undo the bolts securing the injection pump and move it to a position where you obtain the correct readings.
 
You need to check and double check that the timing is correct before you nip up the bolts.
 
Exhaust manifold.
 
Fairly simple this one, they warp.
 
Usually resulting in a leak from number 4 gasket.
 
Remedy, remove the exhaust, the turbo, the engine mounting and remove the manifold and either fit a new one (expensive) or have yours resurfaced (not as expensive)
Refit with new gaskets and new self locking nuts, make sure that the thick stainless washers are in place also as they are an important part of the design (manifold is designed to move on the mounting studs as it warms up hence some holes being bigger than the others)
Remember the factory self locking nuts have 12mm heads so you can get a socket between the manifold and the nut, use 13mm headed ones and you may struggle.
 
Turbo.
 
Loads of good turbos have been written off as scrap due to mis diagnosis.
Most of the time it's because people see a bit of oil in them and then proceed to have kittens. most of this oil is what has come from the engine breather that joins the turbo air feed pipe from the air box and is harmless, if it bothers you clean it out.
There is always an amount of play in the turbo shaft, part of the design as the shaft is designed to float in oil.
For referance the turbo mounts to the manifold with no gasket, so don't go hunting around the floor for the one that fell out, because it didn't, there isn't one and don't be tempted to "seal" the joint with exhaust paste either as what usually happens is that when the manifold to turbo bolts are nipped up that paste is squeezed out into the port and with exhaust gas flow these baked bits of paste get dislodged and damage the turbo vanes, so don't do it!!
the funny bolts are  12mm, 12 point, or 12mm Bi hex socket as some call them.
 
Does it still smoke?
 
Cold starting.
 
The Cold start lever (no, it's not a f*ckin' choke!)
 
At the side of the steering column is a little lever, if you pull this lever it advances your injection pump timing by 2 degrees or so to aid cold starting and to enable the engine to idle smoothly while it is cold.
You should not need this function if your engine is in fine fettle or the temps are around or below freezing.
The mechanism works by rotating the guts of the injection pump a tad to advance the pump timing, but it only works upto about 2000rpm until dynamic injection advance takes over, so, basically leaving the lever out all the time will NOT give any performance gains.
 
The levers are a twat to pull out without the engine running.
 
So, cold morning, jump in, go for glow plugs as glow plug light goes out gently pull on the lever and crank the engine, you will find that the lever comes out easier as the engine turns. pull the lever out enough to obtain a smooth idle.
 
Push it back in when you can.
 
Glow plugs
 
Why is it that when ever anyone gets any starting problems they go straight for the glow plugs?
Yes they fail, but not as often as people think.
To check them...
Either, remove the injectors and physically watch them.
Remove the buzz bar and using a multimeter check the resistances, or just check for an open circuit as all they basically are is a coil of wire (hence the symbol on your dash)
 
The glowplug system is controlled by a temperature sensor, so, the colder it is the longer they work for, if the connectors or wiring are in poor shape this will have a detremental effect on how the system performs so check the wiring.
Once the engine warms up the sensor will tell the control relay the engine temp and the relay won't energise the plugs.
 
There are 3 stages of "Glow"
 
Pre glow, the bit you see when the light is on.
During glow, they are still powered while cranking.
post glow, they still work once the engine has fired for unto a minute to maintain a smooth idle.
 
Changing the glow plugs can be a bit fiddly, ratchet spanners are your friend here.
The nuts on the buzz bar are 8mm, or they should be, the glowplugs themselves are 12mm.
 
Still smoking?
 
Injectors.
 
Chances are that if your still smoking after that lot then your injectors or pump are worn.
injectors are easy enough to check with a "Pot" or "Pop" tester.
 
They get removed, attached to a machine and the spray pattern and opening pressure are checked.
If they are on the piss new nozzles can be fitted and set to the right pressure by means of a load of different size shims to set the preload on the internal spring.
 
Injectors should alwats be refitted with brand new washers as they collapse to form a seal to protect the nozzle, re-use the washers and your in for trouble with damaged injector nozzles.
 
Worn pump.
 
Sounds like it.
White/blue smoke on a morning? smells of Diesel? runs like shit? sorts itself out when warm?
Dig deep boyo, looks like your pumps f**ked!
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 08 at 22:49
Great thread Baxter.
 
How would excessive oil consumption fit into this or is that an extra factor which changes the outlook?!!!
 
Cheers
Martin
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 08 at 22:53
If it uses oil, it's fucked.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 08 at 23:30

no beating about the bush  with that answer then LOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 08 at 08:10
Definitive indeed.
 
Allthough most of it is beyond my technical understanding I can see the logical approach and now understand the importance of getting the righjt bits checked / set-up by the right bloke.
 
My westy 1.6td runs great...smoke a little for a minute or too on cold startup....but has not been looked at service wise since I bought it back in July 07  Embarrassed
 
My theory was if it is running good....dont let anyone bugger it up. You can only push this theory for so long....until it breaks and costs more money to fix.
 
Think I need to make a trip to Gods country.
 
Cheers
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 08 at 09:26
After reading that i think my Engine is in a pretty good state Cool
     
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 08 at 19:22
Just thnking out loud. I do a lot of work on bikes and whenever shims are done on a bike they are done stone cold so how come they have to be done warm on the vans. I take it everything in this is the same for the 1.6d apart from the turbo obviously.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 08 at 20:24
Ask VW.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 08 at 21:34
Ah right nice easy answer that one. lol
Was just ondering what was different but i suppose its cause they are diesels as well hich is different.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 08 at 23:11
Originally posted by Baxter Baxter wrote:


I do have the problem of an increased amount of bluey/white smoke in the winter months for a very short period on start up. It seems acceptable in summer but I cannot accept this is normal in the winter. My only possible explanation was worn valve seals as also commented on by Le Brique.
 
Simple service
 
Oil and filter change, good quality oil filter (not Unipart or Fram!!) and refil with 15w40 mineral oil, you don't need anything fancy with these engines.
I currently have semi synthetic 10w40 please confirm the oil you suggest is good practice and not the potential root cause of the problem. I also need an oil suitable of a large temp range, 35 deg summer air temp to -10ish deg winter temp in the hills, will use as you advise.

Replace the air filter and make sure the inlet tract to the turbo is un broken and clear of blockages.
Done, cleaned out hose which was oily but not too bad.
 
Replace the fuel filter and bleed it properly to expel any air, you can either prime it with fresh Diesel (messy) or connect all the pipes up except the outlet to the pump and then using a vacuum pump draw fuel from the tank into the filter (not messy)
Will do shortly (Replaced 18 months ago) but again if you agree at the end of this oil is my problem not fuel then this is just to ensure the engine is in a healthy general state isn't it?
 
Tappets
 
Set the tappets, yes they need setting and no they aren't hydraulic as some people think, this is the single most over looked service item on these engines and generally the cause of mis diagnosed engine replacements. They are of the bucket and shim veriety so the idea is you set the engine to TDC on which ever cylinder you are setting and compress the buckets with the appropriate tool and lift the shim out and replacing it with the correct size shim to set the gap between the shim and the cam.
 
The spec is as follows
 
Inlet .2mm to .3mm
Exhaust .4mm to .5mm
 
They are to be set with the engine stinking hot and the rocket cover gasket is to be replaced afterwards or they leak, but leave it off for the mean time.
Not yet done, can I get a kit to cover all possibilities before taking this job on? It's a little lumpy on cold start up but after one press of the accelerator it's smooth. Is this again possibly the root cause?

 
Cam timing
 
Set engine to TDC via the inspection hole in the bell housing, there are 3 marks in there, you only need the middle one, so..
You have an uppy one, an inny one and then an uppy one again, it's the inny one in the middle thats the TDC mark.
 
rather like this...   ----^-v-^----
 
Then, remove the rocker cover and with your special tool that you bought before you started place it into the back of the cam to check that the crank and cam are perfectly in time.
The timing peg should also fit into the injection pump sprocket and lock securely into the injection pump mounting bracket.
If you are in any doubt about your cambelt you need to change it along with the tensioner.
The cam belt sprocket is of the "wedge mated" design, meaning there is no woodruff key and it is infinatley adjustable.
If your cam timing is out and you need to reposition the cam sprocket in relation to the cam then slacken the nut and tap the pulley with a punch from the rear through the hole in the cam belt cover to crack it off.
 
Pump timing
 
Again, another critical over looked service item, while you have the rocker cover and cam belt covers off you might as well check/set the pump timing.
Not rocket science either, but you need some special tools in the form of a DTI and pump timing adapter.
 
While the engine is at TDC on number one install the pump timing adapter and then fit the DTI with a couple of mm of preload.
 
Wind the engine backwards (without the timing peg in the pulley and the setting bar in the back of the cam!!) until the needle on the DTI stops moving.
 
Zero the DTI
 
Wind the engine back up to TDC.
 
Measure off the timing reading.
 
factory setting is .9mm of lift at TDC although it is generally regarded that 1mm of lift is best for performance, cold starting, fuel economy and lower EGT's.
 
If the reading is out of spec you need to undo the bolts securing the injection pump and move it to a position where you obtain the correct readings.
 
You need to check and double check that the timing is correct before you nip up the bolts.
New belt/tensioner 18 months ago cam timing included
Pump timing set at the same time both by VWees in Bristol

Exhaust manifold.
 
Fairly simple this one, they warp.
 
Usually resulting in a leak from number 4 gasket.
 
Remedy, remove the exhaust, the turbo, the engine mounting and remove the manifold and either fit a new one (expensive) or have yours resurfaced (not as expensive)
Refit with new gaskets and new self locking nuts, make sure that the thick stainless washers are in place also as they are an important part of the design (manifold is designed to move on the mounting studs as it warms up hence some holes being bigger than the others)
Remember the factory self locking nuts have 12mm heads so you can get a socket between the manifold and the nut, use 13mm headed ones and you may struggle.
Stripped and skimmed a couple of months ago, was warped as you warn.
 
Turbo.
 
Loads of good turbos have been written off as scrap due to mis diagnosis.
Most of the time it's because people see a bit of oil in them and then proceed to have kittens. most of this oil is what has come from the engine breather that joins the turbo air feed pipe from the air box and is harmless, if it bothers you clean it out.
There is always an amount of play in the turbo shaft, part of the design as the shaft is designed to float in oil.
For referance the turbo mounts to the manifold with no gasket, so don't go hunting around the floor for the one that fell out, because it didn't, there isn't one and don't be tempted to "seal" the joint with exhaust paste either as what usually happens is that when the manifold to turbo bolts are nipped up that paste is squeezed out into the port and with exhaust gas flow these baked bits of paste get dislodged and damage the turbo vanes, so don't do it!!
the funny bolts are  12mm, 12 point, or 12mm Bi hex socket as some call them.
New Turbo 12 months ago, serious amount of smoke under load before that !
 
Does it still smoke?
 
Cold starting.
 
The Cold start lever (no, it's not a f*ckin' choke!)
 
At the side of the steering column is a little lever, if you pull this lever it advances your injection pump timing by 2 degrees or so to aid cold starting and to enable the engine to idle smoothly while it is cold.
You should not need this function if your engine is in fine fettle or the temps are around or below freezing. Not need it to start or to obtain smooth idle?
The mechanism works by rotating the guts of the injection pump a tad to advance the pump timing, but it only works upto about 2000rpm until dynamic injection advance takes over, so, basically leaving the lever out all the time will NOT give any performance gains.
Starts fine without but runs a little smoother with, even when temps are above freezing
 
The levers are a twat to pull out without the engine running.
I'm glad you have confirmed this as I was going to take it apart.
 
So, cold morning, jump in, go for glow plugs as glow plug light goes out gently pull on the lever and crank the engine, you will find that the lever comes out easier as the engine turns. pull the lever out enough to obtain a smooth idle.
 
Push it back in when you can.
 
Glow plugs
 
Why is it that when ever anyone gets any starting problems they go straight for the glow plugs?
Yes they fail, but not as often as people think.
To check them...
Either, remove the injectors and physically watch them.
Remove the buzz bar and using a multimeter check the resistances, or just check for an open circuit as all they basically are is a coil of wire (hence the symbol on your dash)
 
The glowplug system is controlled by a temperature sensor, so, the colder it is the longer they work for, if the connectors or wiring are in poor shape this will have a detremental effect on how the system performs so check the wiring.
Once the engine warms up the sensor will tell the control relay the engine temp and the relay won't energise the plugs.
 
There are 3 stages of "Glow"
 
Pre glow, the bit you see when the light is on.
During glow, they are still powered while cranking.
post glow, they still work once the engine has fired for unto a minute to maintain a smooth idle.
 
Changing the glow plugs can be a bit fiddly, ratchet spanners are your friend here.
The nuts on the buzz bar are 8mm, or they should be, the glowplugs themselves are 12mm.
Unchecked. But as a test when you turn over without waiting for the plugs it takes a little time to start then puffs out the unburnt fuel as expected. This is not the same type of smoke I am trying to eliminate.
 
Still smoking?
 
Injectors.
 
Chances are that if your still smoking after that lot then your injectors or pump are worn.
injectors are easy enough to check with a "Pot" or "Pop" tester.
 
They get removed, attached to a machine and the spray pattern and opening pressure are checked.
If they are on the piss new nozzles can be fitted and set to the right pressure by means of a load of different size shims to set the preload on the internal spring.
 
Injectors should alwats be refitted with brand new washers as they collapse to form a seal to protect the nozzle, re-use the washers and your in for trouble with damaged injector nozzles.

New injectors and shims (I probably did not need them as it made no difference to performance. At least I have a spare set if one now fails !

 
Worn pump.
 
Sounds like it.
White/blue smoke on a morning? Yes, more so if cold.
smells of Diesel? No
runs like shit? No
sorts itself out when warm? Almost instantly unless left on tickover at temps around freezing. It's a bitch driving down from a mountain in traffic, I turn it off if sat too long on tickover, I have an oil cooler which I would like to understand if it does not operate at cold temps. ie does it have it's own stat which stops circulation?

Dig deep boyo, looks like your pumps f**ked! I hope this is only if you are sure it is fuel that is causing the smoke where I hope you agree it is oil. It burns very little oil but gets the odd top up between an oil change.

What is your view on the liklyhood of worn valve stem seals? It has about 80k on this cylinder head.

Cheers

Zeb

 
 
 
 
 
 
1990 Westfalia California 1.6TD
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 08 at 19:41
This is a really great post.  Thanks to Baxter for taking the time to write it.

I am half way through changing my head gasket and Turbo plus 101 20 year old bodges. Even with using the Bentley manual and the Pocket mechanic book its been hard to work out how to do things but the post above has cleared up a few questions I had.

As i have had to remove the cam to skim the head i will need to adjust the tappets when it goes back together.  I am still a little confused over thisConfused  Does anyone know what tool and where I can buy it from? Plus if I need shims where do i get those from? The Bentley says I need tools US4476 and 2078?  Mean anything to anyone?

Again thanks for the helpful post.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 08 at 20:41
I think you`ve answered your own question there Zeb, if it uses "very little oil between changes"
 
(small top-up is normal and acceptable, latest 1.9 PD TDi engine uses up to a litre in 1000 miles, and that`s "acceptable", allegedly!)
 
 then the smoke must be coming from unburnt / poorly burnt diesel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 08 at 20:46
I just don't understand the difference in smell and appearance of the smoke. I also thought it would take very little oil to do this. It is after start up for 1-2 seconds unless it is very cold and left on tickover. If you think fuel it's a matter of attacking the least painfull of the items listed by Baxter that I have not already done.

Cheers
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 18:00
Wow!  Is there no end to this man's talents!  I wonder when there will be a DJ code seminar in this series?  Must get the guys in the labs at work to clone him and then install a clone in each county for a start, see how that goes and then roll out across Europe and then the World.  Sorry it's been a hard day or two here at the pointy end of science... ...  (I'll teach him to post things to me addressed to "The Lab Rat")
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 08 at 09:08

Great definitive guide, thank you Simon for the time & effort in producing this tablet of stone for us lesser mortals Clap. I have duly printed off a copy & will follow guide to the letter once the warmer weather returns. My initial diagnosis of suspect valve stem seals have been put on the back shelf as a failed glow plug is now clearly evident & verified by multimeter. Yesterday the JX lump limped into life on three pots before eventually the fourth pot dropped in. The lump then quickly settled down to an even idle & smoke free status.

 
Cheers...........La Brique
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 10 at 14:54
Time to revive this spectacular thread !!

I have finally finished following the JX bible as prescribed by Baxter and am a very happy camper indeed.

Sub zero temps here again -2 to -7ish, not -16 degrees as in some parts of the UK. Started the van and get a very small amount of smoke, no more than any other diesel let alone a 20 year old one so I am chuffed to bits.

Not only that but it pulls much better as well.

Pump lift was .82 and is now 1mm.
Cam timing was out a little, maybe 15-20mm at the flywheel and is now spot on.
Valve shims needed a bit of swapping around to get acceptable values but nothing major, one inlet was .17mm hot.

Thanks Simon for excellent advice once again and maybe I can avoid driving thousands of miles for you to check it out.....................................for now.

Now on with some less urgent tinkering !

Leisure battery, Twin rear fogs, water tank sensor, Front table, HUD etc. etc. I'll never run out of stuff to do it seems.

Cheers

Zeb
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 10 at 21:57
 Thumbs Up  A JX in good fettle is a tidy little motor innit?  Tongue 
Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 10 at 22:26
I do agree Chappy, next thing I need to start thinking about is tyre radius increase and/or gear box mod. The engine runs at high revs and seems as if it could have been set up a lot better by VW for those motorway trips. 65-70mph at a push is just a little less than I would like, if set up to cruise at 70-75mph at a sensible rev level I would be happy. I need new tyres for std 14" rims but don't want to get it wrong by overdoing it, the gearbox route with longer 4th and 5th is no doubt the way to go but that aint cheap as you know. How much was it from Aiden 500 quidish?

Cheers

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 10 at 22:33
Originally posted by Zeb Zeb wrote:

the gearbox route with longer 4th and 5th is no doubt the way to go but that aint cheap as you know. How much was it from Aiden 500 quidish?


Not sure you'd want to do that - the JX would struggle I bit I think.  I'd go for tyres and see how it goes.  My rears are 225/55 x 17 if that helps. I'm running an AAP though.

What box you got?
Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 10 at 09:50
I think its the std 5 speed box per original supply, how do I tell ?

Cheers

Zeb
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