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Tim the gas View Drop Down
Yardie
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    Posted: 05 Dec 09 at 22:26
Hi , new on here. Excellent site.
My problem is extreme water loss - 5 litres on friday for about 50 miles driven !
I've looked through and found most people have suffered the same faults as me.
I have 54 -174 LWB van which I've had from new and is now out of warranty.
I have had the oil cooler replaced(oil in header tank), 3 heater control panels due to very stiff
control and then they busted.Had the dealer look at that one-stripped out dash,replaced heater control cables -£650- Every time the dealer replaced the control panel under warranty, no problem
but as soon as it was out of warranty and control panel busted, had to have the above work done.
Heater controls now all ok - I reckon VW know there is a problem with this but they avoided it on mine
or they just didn't look into it enough.
I have oil contamination in my power steering reservoir and every now and then I syringe out some of the excess to stop it spewing out over the air box etc.
I have had a air conditioning condenser fail(Done under warranty)

Anyway, I have a serious water leak problem.
I have not yet had a new water pump.
I have no emulsified oil under my oil filler cap or in the tube, oil level has not increased,no oil in the header tank. The van started using a slight amount of water about a month ago and it let me know
with the low coolant warning light. I topped it up,thinking to myself that was strange because I had never in 5 years of ownership ever had to top it up.
The van wasn't used for 3 weeks while I was away on holiday but when I started using it again, this is when it suddenly developed a great thirst. I don't think it is the head gasket.
I have also noticed that the heater doesn't work as well as it used to, although it does work.
I finally noticed that there was water dripping out underneath the van almost directly below the passenger side footwell.
On looking underneath it appears there is something under a plastic cover and I can see some aluminium pipes running to that area from the bulkhead via some t-pieces in the heater lines.

It's going into the dealers on Tuesday for a service,brake fluid service,replace power steering pump/flush out and investigate water loss.
I don,t think it is the water pump as it is leaking too far away from where the pump is located on the engine.
From reading the forum I think I will get the dealer to replace the water pump anyway before it fails.

Anybody got an idea what my problem may be ?

Go gentle on me cos I'm gonna have a big bill already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 09 at 22:53
Hi Tim, Welcome,
 
If you seach on here you will soon be in no doubt that if your van is before mid-05 it will be the water pump leaking.  If you have mentioned your water loss to the dealer and they still haven't twigged I'd go somewhere else.  The water pump is internal (as you will find in your reseach hereWink)  and is not in the normal place.  The water leak under the van is because the water pump has a chamber open to the air, if the water pump leaks it is supposed to all come out by this route but because of a second seal failure some, or sometimes all of it goes into the engine.  (Check out my phone pic of one I did where several pints of clean water came out of the sump plug before the oil!)  Any water from T5 leaking water pumps that doesn't go into the engine comes out of a small drain hole just to the passenger's side of centre. 
 
Re the PAS pump- Search again- Unfortunately if your PAS fluid is overflowing or/and anything other than clearish you will need a new PAS pump. Ouch   Ask the dealer about goodwill claim for these known faults and please let us know how you get on. Smile
 
Re the heater controls- Search here again......
2004 2.5 174
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Tim the gas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 09 at 23:34
Thanks T5 TDI for your reply.
I've known about the power steering pump since the last servce-dealer wanted about £450ish to repair but was skint at time after being relieved of my hard earnt on dash out and new heater cables and  service -£650.
So after reading forum I thought it was only a matter of time before water pump went !

So then, That'll be a service,new water pump, new power steering pump and flush out + a brake fluid service. Better put up my rates on boiler servicing and landlords inspections !  I'll ask the dealer about any goodwill claim on tuesday - I'll let you know on that one.
By the way, the van's only done 69,200 miles.

Even despite these faults this is the best van I have ever owned.

When it's repaired and  I've financially recovered I want to get it remapped.
A mate of my mine had his 174 remapped at Jabbasport in Cambridgeshire.
He has 198 bhp & 500 NM-torque and says it is an animal ! He went for the high torque and slightly
lower bhp mapping as torque is where it's at in the real world- traffic light grand prix's etc.
Has anyone any experience with Jabbasport ?
This guy is a drag racer, same as me but I'm only going on what he tells me- I haven't driven his van to see the difference between stock and remapped performance.

The guy that delivers my nitrous oxide for  the race car has a Merc Sprinter with the 204bhp engine- chipped by Brabus to 240bhp and he has a 50 bhp nitrous kit on board !
So if you ever pull alongside that at the lights - pass on it ! (White Merc Sprinter, sign written-Nitrous Oxide Supplies Ltd) They are in the Hull area but deliver all over the country.
You have all been warned !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 09 at 23:57
Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

The guy that delivers my nitrous oxide for  the race car has a Merc Sprinter with the 204bhp engine- chipped by Brabus to 240bhp and he has a 50 bhp nitrous kit on board !
So if you ever pull alongside that at the lights - pass on it ! (White Merc Sprinter, sign written-Nitrous Oxide Supplies Ltd) They are in the Hull area but deliver all over the country.
You have all been warned !!!
 
Bloody hell!!  Never mind, if it's a Sprinter (or Vito) rust will decide the race.  He'll look pretty silly up ahead on four wheels and a chassis but minus a body...  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 09 at 07:54
Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

So then, That'll be a service,new water pump, new power steering pump and flush out + a brake fluid service.
 
Ouch.  I suggest you also get them to flush the clutch slave cylinder while they are doing the brake fluid, it could save you another very large repair bill (the slave cylinder is INSIDE the bell housing, and so costs a enormous amoint of labour to replace when really old fluid turns to jelly).
 

Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

Even despite these faults this is the best van I have ever owned.

When it's repaired and  I've financially recovered I want to get it remapped.
.... as torque is where it's at in the real world- traffic light grand prix's etc.
This guy is a drag racer, same as me ....
You have all been warned !!! 
 
Thanks for the warning, and I'll return the favour. 
 
Watch out for your driveshaft splines if you get remapped and decide to frequently use that extra performance in "traffic light grand prix's etc", or practicing your hole shot technique.  The splines are a bit marginal on std 174s, so a lot of extra load will likely shorten their life considerably :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 09 at 14:10
Stripped drive shafts?  Unfortunately another seach will give you plenty of those too.  And no need for a remap first! Ouch 
 
Greg's mention of the clutch fluid change (actually I think I was there first TongueLOL) is a good idea but it won't happen naturally as part of the brake fluid change.  (Despite what the dealer may tell you).  The clutch slave cylinder must be bled in order to draw the new fluid into the cylinder.  Expect to pay extra for this service though.  If you ever have to have the gearbox removed, do youself a favour and get the clutch slave cylinder replaced at that time. Smile  
 
Edit-  Humble apologies to Greg Embarrassed for my jokey jibe above, he was first to suggest this.  I was thinking of my T4 clutch fluid which I remember well because I chose to do it minutes before a 5000 mile trip. It was so difficcult to get the last of the air out that I had to use a pressurised cap.  I nearly missed the ferry. LOL     


Edited by T5 TDI - 07 Dec 09 at 07:28
2004 2.5 174
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Yellow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 10:35
Hi and welcome Tim the gas!

Note that it's difficult to know if the water pump is the cause of the coolant loss, as the weep pipe drains onto the felt jacket that covers the oil sump!  My van was consuming half a litre of coolant every 100 - 200 km but there was no evidence of coolant dripping until I removed the bellypan and the felt jacket - then I found concentrated coolant gel (obviously the warm water had evaporated leaving the coolant additives).

After running for half-an-hour, this much coolandt had escaped!



 
2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 11:01
Good point HY.  Although sometimes virtually all of it all goes into the engine before it can escape to the ouside as it should. Cry
 
 
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Onefut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Onefut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 11:23
is that low viscosity oilLOL t5 tdi
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 12:02
Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:

is that low viscosity oilLOL t5 tdi
 
Hehe!  I hasten to add that wasn't my van. Shocked   I was doing a water pump for someone else.  I changed the pump on mine before it had a chance to leak, it being the unmodified pump.
 
I actually lent my 'special tool' ( LOL )  to a local garage to do one the other week and they drained five litres of water out of theirs!  I can't believe more engines don't get stuffed.  It does sit at the bottom of the sump but some must go round with the oil. 


Edited by T5 TDI - 07 Dec 09 at 12:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Onefut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 13:31
be like running the motor on HellmansLOLLOLLOL
full fat of course not the diet stuff thatd be just wrongLOL
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB
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Tim the gas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 20:20
What do the alloy pipes near the bulkhead ( that are tee'd off the heater pipes ) do ?
They seem to disappear down the passenger side(R/H Drive) lower bulkhead and go under the van
somewhere.
If I look underneath the van it is about where the passengers feet would reside.
There seems to be a plastic cover over something and it's next to some type of cooler.
This is the area that my water is pissing from. It is well back from the undertray.
If I had enough time I would have jacked it up and had a look.
Only problem is it's been pissing with rain since I discovered it and can't get it in the dry to look under it.
Gravel driveway don't help either !
Took it to the dealers today ,so I'm in there hands now.
I use Colbornes in Guildford-where I bought the the van and they have always given me a good service. You can also talk to the technician if you have any issues normally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 22:23
I think you might be mixing up some things Tim.  If you have A/C you will notice two alloy pipes which will be covered in cold droplets when the A/C is on.  The long radiator under the passanger's seat is a fuel cooler.  But if you are loosing 5 litres of water in 50 miles forget anything else!   I'm glad you are not driving the van around any more, the dealer will soon fix it for you.  Smile
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Tim the gas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 09 at 02:09
Thanks T5 TDI, I do have air-con amongst many other options ( I kept ticking the YES box when I ordered the van ).
That clears a few things up in my mind now.
I guess it's probably the water pump and somehow the water's  making it's way to that area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 09 at 23:13
 
Water loss sorted
Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

]Picked up the van from the dealers tonite-all sorted.Smile
Turns out the severe water loss was down to a damaged water hose underneath the van beneath the passenger side seat area. (RHD vehicle)The hose is fitted to a "afterrun" pump that is hidden by a plastic cover.
It is next to the fuel cooler.
The two alloy pipes that I could see disappearing down the firewall are definately coolant pipes
and not air conditioning pipes.
So it was not water pump after all !
I realise that this afterrun pump may not be fitted on all model variants but I have one !
My van is 2004 -174BHP -AXE code engine,LWB,aircon,alarm,comfort drivers seat with armrests,reversing sensors,towbar,electric pack-Windows/mirrors etc,charcoal filter,foglights,6 disc CD changer,ply lining,alloy wheels. 69,250 miles so far.
They done a service + brake fluid service + replaced power steering pump/flushed system + replaced the dodgy hose + repaired brake pad warning light plug (busted by me when I changed front pads) all for the price of £858.07 inc VAT.

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