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T3 LHD MOT fail - rear fog light / headlights

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scottyh56 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 14:10
Hello all. New here! - I've a 1988 Westfalia that I bought this time last year - complete with 5 MOT certificates from several testing stations following its import. I'm a bit peeved that I've just failed my first test on....

001 Headlamp aim beam image kick up to the offside

002 Rear fog lamp missing
003 Rear fog lamp switch missing (and this must light up when on)

For 001 it seems that I can just stick on some headlight convertors that I can get from Brickwerks. I guess this is how it passed previous MOTs but is there an easy & more satisfactory solution?

For 002/3 there seems to be a blank socket in both rear light clusters - I say socket but there seems to be no contacts in place so it's more just a hole and it's mid way between the two inner red elements of the rectangular light cluster.  Can this be set up as the rear fog light and if I'm to do it myself can someone point me in the right direction including where will I get the bits?

Thanks

Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote timmythedog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 14:42
Firstly, if it's got square lights just buy the beam deflectors for the time being. RHD square lights are hard to get hold of, and can be very pricey.  If you've got round lights, i'd invest in a new set of RHD ones.
 
For the rear fog i'd buy a RHD offside lamp unit and just run a wire across from the rear left. this should give you 2 rear fogs off the proper dashboard switch(assuming your van has one?).
If not, buy a switch kit and wiring. You can bolt an aftermarket lamp on to the bumper or stick it to the back panel.
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scottyh56 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 14:53
Thanks for getting back. There's no dashboard switch and the left hand cluster is identical to the right hand ie even without contacts to take a bulb. Which is why I wonder how it passed 5 MOT's!

Re aftermarket, do you mean this sort of thing? http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_169920_langId_-1_categoryId_165688

But when it comes down to it, I'd rather be able to set up the cluster to work or at least I think I'd want something prettier!

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steve B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 16:08
Have a search for fog light and all will be revealed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 16:52
Indeed - works rather better than 'fog lamp'.

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/foglight-wiring-question_topic56386_post484674.html?KW=fog+light#484674

I suspect that the finding a RHD cluster is the way to go eventually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tee3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 18:17
Originally posted by timmythedog timmythedog wrote:

You can bolt an aftermarket lamp on to the bumper or stick it to the back panel.


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YOU CANT EDUCATE GAMMON

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 18:52
Simple fix.

Take off guage cover then unplug guages/speedo etc . Have a shuftie at wiring loom , find the big fat bunch of wires that come from bulkhead, they are in a black sleeve and come thr front bulkhead in a big rubber grommet. If you have a nosey in this you will find a wire bent back onitself with the connectors pushed into the conduit IIRC its got grey + yellow in the colours in it.
  This is switch wire for rear fogs. It will also go as far as rear cluster but you wont have the metal base in the fog lamp holder base. either get the metal piece and slide it into bottom of yours or get a OS RHD rear light (remember there are 2 types - hella and URO.
  Cant remember rest , think you might need fog light relay but think the live feed etc is in fusebox already. Find the hidden wire and youve cracked majority of work involved.
 haynes or here should throw up wiring diagrams for live feed if needs be.

 Fog light replaces the blanking plate in bottom right of binnacle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 20:44
Thanks Elvis
That's the sort of solution I was looking for. It's why "the metal base in the fog lamp holder" isn't already in place that beats me, when everything else (except the switch, relay maybe) is! So I'd like to find a metal base (contact?) but where? Part number, more precise name? I wonder if anyone can add anything?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote T3Panel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 20:54
go and have a look at your back lights. if they have the letters ULO on them (fairly small in the bottom corner) then just get a lamp holder. Should only be a couple of quid, stick an ad in the wanted section. If they are hella, they are more expensive, because aftermarket smoked lights need hella bulb holders, so more desireable.
 
If you need a genuine fog lamp switch for your dash, I think I have a spare you can have  for a couple of quid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tee3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 21:25
Originally posted by scottyh56 scottyh56 wrote:

Thanks Elvis
That's the sort of solution I was looking for. It's why "the metal base in the fog lamp holder" isn't already in place that beats me, when everything else (except the switch, relay maybe) is! So I'd like to find a metal base (contact?) but where? Part number, more precise name? I wonder if anyone can add anything?


dont think theyre available seperately. Ive looked before...

however. if someone out there has a knackered bulb holder, you can take the connector out and put it in yours. Doesnt have to be from the Fog bulb either.

Lens will have the Fog lens, but wont have any reflective matertial inside... MOT likely wont notice that but your FOG will be a little darker than it should be.

Theres no relay. You need to find the connector on the back of the fuse box which goes live with the side lights... test light and a bit of patience will find it. Its towards the side of the fuse box, and will be a spade connector, not one of the fixed wires to the plug.

Oh, and the grey wire Elvis is on about may well be there, but ive had 2 imports that it wasnt there on.... both pre 86 so hopefully it will be an early/late thing. All my 88/89 vans have had em.
If it goes as far as the rear lighhts it will only go to the nearside. It may even end in the black box in the corner of the engine bay.

Oh, and dont forget your switch illumination too... its an MOT requirement. Genuine switch will illuminate when you turn em on, but you'll need to earth it




Edited by Tee3 - 30 Jun 11 at 21:26

YOU CANT EDUCATE GAMMON

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 21:45
WHS^

bottom of bulb holder, just rob one from a knackered unit. my bad with relay- thats fronts. oops.

IIRC the live feed for the switch was taken from one of the big square multi plugs (yellow?) im sure i had to use a factory OE round connector and push it into the multiplug for some reason. dunno though. im retarded at best of times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 22:17
Just about to hit the sack - loads more to get my teeth into. Thanks all - I'm just beginning to learn about scavenging in relation to keeping this machine going!
T3Panel - your generosity is noted & I may well get back to you in a day or two.

Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 11 at 22:07
Thanks to this thread I have a UK spec bulb holder for the right hand cluster and a switch which is in the post.

The right hand plug at the rear has five wires attached while at the left there are six wires. This extra wire is I presume the one which runs to the front and somewhere under the instrument panel ends in something that will connect up to the switch.

I've looked at the hazard warning switch which I guess is similar to the fog light switch. There are a scary number of wires connected to it. I'm suddenly doubting my ability to deal with this!

Should I call in the cavalry to complete the job? If I do, just so that I am clear on what I am looking for....

1. Front to rear wiring is definitely there because of that 6th lead ( ? )
2. Wire up switch at front
3. Run wiring from left hand cluster to right.

Am I there?

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 11 at 00:16
6th wire is your fog. if you have MOT soon easiest quick fix bodge is to run a length of wire with one of those wankey scotch blocks on one end and spade connector on other. Best off doing it properly if/when you have time though as you know it will fail when you need it (MOT/VOSA etc)
 
 As for front , i really cant remember now TBH.
 
Wiring will pull out where i said it would. Cant be that many wires , live feed to switch , earth , feed to rear light , trigger wire from fusebox (triggered by tail lights or dipped beam i guess) maybe a wire or two for bulb in switch.
 
 Find someone with a haynes etc. If i remember i can look on friday as im busy all day tomorrow but im mr unreliable at the mo so dont hold your breath or ring me during day and tell me to look while your on the phone! Dont mind doing it but you will have to remind me.
 
 
 Alternatively , if MOT man fails you , calve his face off with a stanly knife.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 11 at 08:42
Thanks for the confirmation & more tips. I ordered the haynes from brickwerks on Sunday together with headlight converters - about £8 for postage but only yesterday I got a message that it had been sent so hopefully will be first class & arrive today to shed a bit more light.

Which is what I need inside that binnacle!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote T3Panel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 11 at 22:47
got my dash out at the moment - This is what the back of my foglight switch looks like
 
It's not as bad as it looks. basically one earth cable, and the other 3 go to multipin connector B on the fusebox (if they are not already there in the loom for you) You'll see when you get your manual.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chris7ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 11 at 23:52
Originally posted by Tee3 Tee3 wrote:


Lens will have the Fog lens, but wont have any reflective matertial inside... MOT likely wont notice that but your FOG will be a little darker than it should be.





I fashioned a reflector from aluminium tape for my RHS fog Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chris7ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 11 at 10:05
...and I should add it sailed through it's MOT on Monday Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottyh56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 11 at 13:28
T3Panel - that's such a useful photo!  Chris7ian - not obvious if the lens unit can come apart - but I guess it's possible to manoeuvre tape through the hole (but so dusty inside).

So I'm looking for the same colour set of wires ending in a similar connector. And if it's not there then am I right in assuming that the wiring will not be there. And if I can't find it here then will there be anything running to the rear?

Here's a photo of my fusebox:



The Haynes manual (82-90 Petrol RHD -  I've got a 1988 LHD Westfalia) talks about a fog light relay at position 7. I'm assuming that's a red herring related to front fog lights....

Pulling down the fuse box:



Now I think I should be able to find the rear fog lamp wiring at the fuse box. But there's nothing obvious in those colours.

More pics:





The first is looking up from the floor - off topic, but what's that switch under the dash I wonder?

Anyway, the upshot is that I can't seem to find anything useful right now for me to take it forward. Any more thoughts greatly appreciated - MOT retest must be by Wednesday so I'm thinking an aftermarket jobby to get it through the test? Or should I just throw the whole thing at an auto electrician now? Just will have to find one (near Brighton) who knows his stuff and is free.....



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chris7ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 11 at 15:55
The fuse for the rear foglight is above the main fusebox - it's tucked away out of site. (I think either that 10A or blank fuse in your pic? Red wire?) I had to replace it not so long ago. Follwow the wire from there?
The 15A fuse in postion 6 of the main fuse box in your pic should be the front fogs

Oh, and yes I had to manouvre the tape throught the bulb hole to make the reflector. I washed out the lens housing first, but a wipe should do it - that aluminium tape sticks to most things.
Yes it was boring, ues it was time comsuming, but it did the job for £2 Wink


Edited by chris7ian - 08 Jul 11 at 16:06
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