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starter inhibitor relay location

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: starter inhibitor relay location
    Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 10:59
hi.i am trying to locate a starter fault and would like any info on the position and location of the starter inhibitor relay .i am aware there is a control unit under the dash.and there are relays under the battery tray.any help thanks.04 174 swb...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rod_VW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 20:46
Does this help?
 
Relay carrier electronics box (8-pin), for 2,5 l diesel engine, from March 2003
*  In electronics box in engine compartment
For engine codes AXD and AXE
Pos. -  Connector/designation
1 -  Glow plug relay -J52-
2 -  Fuel pump relay -J17-
3 -  Vacant
4 -  Starter inhibitor relay -J207-
5 -  Vacant
6 -  Terminal 30 voltage supply relay -J317-
7 -  Additional coolant pump relay -J496-
8 -  Power steering control unit -J500-
2B -  Automatic gearbox relay -J60-
   
Relay carrier electronics box (8-pin), for 2,5 l diesel engine, from June 2004
*  In electronics box in engine compartment
for engine codes AXD, AXE, BLJ, BNZ and BPC
Pos. -  Connector/designation
1 -  Glow plug relay -J52- (103) 2)
 -  Glow plug relay -J52- (100) 3)
 -  Automatic glow period control unit -J179- (475) 4)
2 -  Fuel pump relay -J17- (53)
3 -  Vacant
4 -  Vacant
5 -  Fuel pump relay -J17- (53) 1)
6 -  Terminal 30 voltage supply relay -J317- (109)
7 -  Additional coolant pump relay -J496- (53)
8 -  Vacant
2B -  Automatic gearbox relay -J60- (53)
3C -  Starter inhibitor relay -J207- (53)
  Note
t  1) applicable from January 2006
t  2) for engine codes AXD, AXE and BLJ only
t  3) applicable from June 2006 and engine codes AXD, AXE, BLJ
t  4) for engine codes BNZ and BPC only
 
Relay locations in the carrier are as follows, they are in three rows of 3,3,2 plus slot on positions on the side. Reading left to right first row of three are positions 3,2,1, (1A) next row of three = 6,5,4, (2B) and  last row of 2 = 8,7 (3C). Bracketed items are the side mounted slot on positions.
I hope you can follow that.
 
 


Edited by Rod_VW - 27 Feb 12 at 20:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 12 at 09:55
Hi, thanks for the reply. I can now confirm that I don't have a starter inhibitor relay! What you've said here which is nice due to reading so much conflicting information up to now! The problem I'm having is that when I turn the key to the third position in the ignition, the starter will not throw but by putting 12V to the starter solenoid the engine will start and run fine without any lights showing on the dash, there were also no related faults showing when the airbag light was reset.
I assume there must be a relay/contactor somewhere due to the fact that there are no substantial wires into the back of the ignition switch, leading me to believe that the load of the starter solenoid is switched elsewhere. Now that the engine bay relays have been discounted, what are the chances of it being any of the relays under the dash, to the right hand side of the steering wheel? There are a few '53' relays (which I'm lead to believe are just standard 40A SPST relays) with ~4-6mm wires going to them, what are these for?
Apologies for the simple questions, I'm still waiting on a copy of ElsaWin! Thanks for all the help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rod_VW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 12 at 12:03
Hi,
 
Sorry, I assumed that you knew that the starter inhibit relay was only for automatics.
 
On a brief production range in 2004 the starter solenoid circuit passed through a 25A (could be 40A) fuse at SB23. Fuse box SB is the top one in the centre of the dash otherwise it is simply a 2.5sq mm cable from the solenoid to terminal 50 on the 'ignition' switch ie. no other relays.
The wire starts at the solenoid as Red but becomes Back at a coupling station in the 'E' box below the battery. Terminal T10a/4 (T6bk/3). I think that the version without the fuse passes through coupling station T10a/4 but is always 2.5sq mm.
 
Details in brackets June 2004 to Dec 2004. Don't ask, this is Volkswagen we are talking about!
 
It's also possible that the Black cable could be 4.0sq mm on some vehicles?!


Edited by Rod_VW - 28 Feb 12 at 12:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 12 at 19:57
It's worth checking the function of the brake light switch in case it thinks your foot isn't on the brake.  In which case it won't allow a feed to the solonoid. You can check it for continuity with a meter or
if you have access to VCDS or other scanner it's easy to read the brake switch working live (brake on/brake off).
2004 2.5 174
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 18:22
thanks.i got to have some time on my van.i have 12 volt at ignition when in start position on the black wire.but i dont have 12 volt at the black wire in the electric box under battery .are there any joints or connections that could be faulty in between these two points .i do have continuity from the solenoid to the under battery box .i know this sounds  sketchy but i will try and get some more time on it over the weekend thanks again for your interest...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 18:30
forgot to mention no fuse in position sb 23 Embarrassed by that i mean there are no contacts in that position to plug a fuse into...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 12 at 10:41
hi.rod_vw yes i was looking for that relay in the first instance as i had read  what salty 1960 had in his loom. on a manual vehicle it was using the inhibitor relay..that is the last post on the recent post ...starter motor cicuit... by westferry...thanks ...Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 12 at 10:41
hi.still investigating starter fault.what confused me initially.was a t5 owner with a australian t5.who had a manual t5 that was using the relay.and his thoughts were it was to reduce load on ignition contacts.although is vehicle was manual it seemed the wiring was for a auto .probabConfusedly a one off. but thnen again it was in australia...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 23:43
hi everybody...i have found the loss of power supply to the starter motor had been caused by something that had been crimped into the black wire coming from t50 on the ignition switch ...by this i mean the black wire had been cut and two wires connected to the cut ends...were these wires go i do not know yet . but what i do know is that now i have cut the added wires out and joined the cut black wires together the van now starts on the key like it should...what is puzzling me is what could these wires be attached to that would have stopped the starter from working...i am guessing it could be something to do with a diesel auxilary heater that is fitted as i used to be able to hear a fanned exhaust running and dont seem to be able to hear it now...but like i say that is just a guess...what is getting me is i cannot find any switches to control the aux diesel heater and also reading the manual it says if my caravelle has got one it should also have another battery under the passenger seat and there is not a battery there...so i am wondering if something has been added taken away or messed with from what i thought was a standard 174 caravelle... any help much appreciated ...and i will update as soon as i get time to have another poke around...thanks everybody for your support...ClapCryClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 10:20
Alarm/extra immobilizer or starter motor inhibitor (non factory) ?

Do you know much about the history of your van before you bought it (eg corporate or private owner) ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 12 at 00:01
hi.gregozedobe...chatted to you about this before .must be well over a year ago.i have been putting up with a spare wire i fitted to solenoid bypassing original wiring this worked ok but the time has come to sort this out properly.i did say i would keep you updated and here i am although maybe a bit late with my fault finding. which in a strange way i am enjoying i do not no of history of the van but i would have imagined everything would have been done by vw .it now looks like theres a chance that it has possibly a aftermarket immobiliser ...although i have never had anything other than the original key to start the vehicle.and it was ok until the fault occured ...and the other issue being the diesel heater.if it is a aftermarket one.i would have thought i would have been able to find something to control it with...and i cannot find one...thanks again for every bodies help ...and after ive had another look around i will update...on the plus side the original none starting fault has been cured by joining the black wires back together again.but i cannot rest at that and need to hunt out whats on the other end of the wires that i have cut out...SmileCrySmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 12 at 22:33
Handshakehi.and many thanks to you all.the wires i cut out that had been added aftermarket was a alarm immobiliser.it had blue tooth and gps bt red which reported movement.and i believe also a feature where you had to have your mobile with you to be able to start the van and loads of other features .also two wires in the same area that had nothing connected to them.i can only presume that the immobiliser has never been functional since i have owned the vehicle and it must have been disabled prior to me buying the van.i have not checked the two relays in the wiring i have removed but something happened to stop the starter from being operated .i presume that although the immobiliser had been disabled the wiring circuit relied on the extra relay or relays to enable starter motor to run and that one or both of these relays had failed.just goes to show even if you think your vehicle has a factory standard wiring loom .how wrong you can be.and i am proof of this...  anyway many thanks to ...gregozedobe...rod_vw...t5 tdi....and eveybody else great forum and support like this is what its all about....Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 174 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 12 at 22:45
hi.again i almost forgot to mention . the what i thought was a aftermarket dieselheater... is the vw fitted coolant heater which i believe its main job is to warm the coolant up to bring engine up to temp quicker to reduce emisions .that is why i could not find any controls for it . as i beleive this is controlled automatically... if i have got this wrong please correct me ....many thanks again...Ermm  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zedzedeleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 12 at 09:40
Glad you got it all sorted and thanks for the interesting and informative topic, also thanks to the guys who took the trouble to contribute, stars, all of `em. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patoleary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 19:34
Hi - just to let you know a bit about your discovery of this heater. I've had VW mechanics flat out deny this exists - I guess because it's unlikely to be included on UK-bound T4s.

I have one in my '98 T4 California Coach. From what I can make out from the few around here who know about it, and translating some German sites, it is supposed to work completely automatically, i.e. you have no control of it (but see below!). It kicks in when the temperature drops below some predetermined figure and uses a diesel powered catalytic (?) or burner (not sure) to heat the coolant. Purpose, as you say, is to reduce emissions, and/or the smokey cold diesel effect. But I don't know if it only starts when you start the engine, or if you can nip out before breakfast and have it warming the engine and maybe your van, before you set off.

Which brings me to something interesting: Eberspacher supply or supplied a control unit as an add-on for the T4 which takes control of the heater and allows it to be turned on at a set time, and for variable periods. In mine its a little 4 button unit that sticks on to the dashboard. By messing with it I discovered I can set the heater to come on immediately, or at some point during the night while I am in bed. To make this heat any use, though, the unit also supplies power to the main air blower (not the one that supplies the rear cabin as far as I can make out.) So if I set the blower to say position 1, and the air to come out at foot level, and remove the key from the ignition, when this heater comes on it will blow hot air into the van and warms the van up quite quickly. Apart from the fan there is no sound that I can hear, and as it's all outside (in the engine area) there's no worry about CO2. So this little unit provides a nighttime heater for free! (well, apart from the controller cost). I don't even know where it lives under the bonnet.

I suspect what I have is an old version of their Hydronic system, as it heats water - they have another system called AirTronic which heats air, and I think that's the usual T4/Camper heater that lives under the LH side (behind the driver and of course under the chassis), and controlled by the switches and display above the rear mirror, and costs a lot of money!

Haven't had time to give it a thorough checking out, and I can't find much in English about it.
"Ivana B" someplace else....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod_VW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 20:01
I guess you are referring to the Eberspacher water heater that is mounted below the battery with its exhaust poking out under the left front wheel arch. I had one on a 2002 T4 many years ago.

The following website may be of some help, start at page 122 for your D3W heater. I don't think the additional controls to enable independent running are included but that is a start.


Maybe there is some more help available on the T4 Forum https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/ 

Cheers,

Rod 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patoleary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 22:33
Thanks, Rod.

Every so often I find some crumbs of info about this and I throw them in a folder, intending to become The Worlds Leading Expert onthe subject. Then I realise it's going to be a nice weekend and what am I doing indoors on a bloody computer.
"Ivana B" someplace else....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 20 at 14:56
Originally posted by patoleary patoleary wrote:

Thanks, Rod.

Every so often I find some crumbs of info about this and I throw them in a folder, intending to become The Worlds Leading Expert onthe subject. Then I realise it's going to be a nice weekend and what am I doing indoors on a bloody computer.

LOL LOLLOLClap
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