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REMAPPING?

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VW master-tech View Drop Down
Yardie
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    Posted: 08 Mar 10 at 23:47
Was asked to create this subject as a new thread just as a warning for all you guys with chipped vans still under warranty.................
 
 
Strange the ecu remap was lost did you have an ECU software update done as well,be warned folks that if you have a remap and your van requires an Update like they do for emissions faults etc the ecu will be reset to the factory spec also if the dealer suspects that your van has been chipped and it is still under warranty when the factory ask for the diagnois printouts it will show up and i have heard of the factory writing off engine warranties because of a remap.
VW WORX VCDS retrofitting and coding carried out, cruise control, mfsw, dis, locking adaptions pm for a quote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW master-tech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 10 at 23:48
yes the factory can see dont get me wrong as a dealer we can not tell if it has been remapped however there has been various occassions that i have been asked to provide 1 screen shot of a 8 digit number and send it to the vw technical department they then forward it to the factory and if it has been changed from factory spec they cancel the engine warranty for that vehicle and the dealer doesnt get paid for the warranty repair usual repairs include failed turbos,cracked/warped exhaust manifolds or repeated driveshaft failures
VW WORX VCDS retrofitting and coding carried out, cruise control, mfsw, dis, locking adaptions pm for a quote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 10 at 23:54
!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW master-tech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 10 at 23:56
which to a certain affect is true the dealer cannot tell but the factory can tell if it has been changed from original factory settings VW are very protective about what goes into there ECUs
VW WORX VCDS retrofitting and coding carried out, cruise control, mfsw, dis, locking adaptions pm for a quote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 00:15
Another quote from Angel tuning:
 
How will it affect my warranty?
There is no change needed to any hardware for engine remapping and in the main is both physically and diagnostically undetectable.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 00:16

It seems the remap companies choose their words regarding this topic very carefully.......Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 00:19
Torquetronix.....
 

Q: What about my insurance?

A:This is up to you. We have to advise that you inform your insurance companies that the remap has been carried out but it is extremely difficult to detect. Ultimately it is your responsibility.
 
 
!!Never Eat Yellow Snow!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrhutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 00:23
very interesting all you modern-types...

what occurs if

Originally posted by VW master-tech VW master-tech wrote:

i have been asked to provide 1 screen shot of a 8 digit number


isn't done?
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ex-car bloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 07:40
I don't know about you other guys but I cashed in a 15 year investment plan to buy my T5 new 4 years ago and I'm not on a high income, so the idea of messing with any of the factory settings to squeeze out a few extra bhp seems like an unneccesary and crazy risk to me. 
 
I'll stick with my 174 horses and my standard (very nice) torque curve, thanks, and if anything goes bang at least I won't be wishing I hadn't got a remap.
 
It'll be interesting to see how all the DMFs, gearboxes, driveshafts, tyres, turbos etc etc cope with the remaps over the long-term, or will you all sell-on before the miles stack up and pass the problems to someone else?  
ECB           2006 SWB 174 window van
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kawolsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 08:45
I was under the impression that most people had their remap done when the warranty has expired. A friend of mine has just had his 59 plate sportline kombi remapped, well pleased with it. I'm not going down that route, even more so after reading this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 19:51
I waited 5 years till I got my 54 plate 174 remapped.
What you guys are saying about bits expiring early may be true if you always
drive your van like you stole it.Wink
I still treat my van carefully because I paid £18400+VAT for it in 2004.
I drove mine in standard format for all that time but now it's remapped
it is so much nicer to drive.More low end torque,better MPG, more tractability - none of
that on/off power characteristic that the standard map supplies.
My van has only just turned 72,000 miles and I need it every day to run my business so
I don't cane around in it.
It is just nicer to drive now and it has a bit more power to safely overtake now and then.
It also doesn't notice as much when it's loaded up with weight either.
Think of it as a fine tuning tool and not "it's gonna blow up before long" LOL


2004 T30 174-AXE- CELTIC MAPPED TO 228 BHP - LWB TORNADO RED PANEL VAN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 10 at 20:15
Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

I waited 5 years till I got my 54 plate 174 remapped.
What you guys are saying about bits expiring early may be true if you always
drive your van like you stole it.Wink
I still treat my van carefully because I paid £18400+VAT for it in 2004.
I drove mine in standard format for all that time but now it's remapped
it is so much nicer to drive.More low end torque,better MPG, more tractability - none of
that on/off power characteristic that the standard map supplies.
My van has only just turned 72,000 miles and I need it every day to run my business so
I don't cane around in it.
It is just nicer to drive now and it has a bit more power to safely overtake now and then.
It also doesn't notice as much when it's loaded up with weight either.
Think of it as a fine tuning tool and not "it's gonna blow up before long" LOL


 
I would agree with that, a sensibly driven remapped van (particulary one thats owner driven/needed to earn money) is probably a safer bet than a non remapped communial work van that everybody rags and no one gives a shit about.........
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kernow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 10 at 00:15
Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

I waited 5 years till I got my 54 plate 174 remapped.
What you guys are saying about bits expiring early may be true if you always
drive your van like you stole it.Wink
I still treat my van carefully because I paid £18400+VAT for it in 2004.
I drove mine in standard format for all that time but now it's remapped
it is so much nicer to drive.More low end torque,better MPG, more tractability - none of
that on/off power characteristic that the standard map supplies.
My van has only just turned 72,000 miles and I need it every day to run my business so
I don't cane around in it.
It is just nicer to drive now and it has a bit more power to safely overtake now and then.
It also doesn't notice as much when it's loaded up with weight either.
Think of it as a fine tuning tool and not "it's gonna blow up before long" LOL


 
I would agree with that, a sensibly driven remapped van (particulary one thats owner driven/needed to earn money) is probably a safer bet than a non remapped communial work van that everybody rags and no one gives a shit about.........
 
 
I can't say Iam as convinced . I too want to do a remap on my 130 , but Iam still sat here , frankly waiting for a thread like this one to reveal some truth .
I can understand the "i don't thrash my van " reasoning , and its celtic's claims of massive power in particular that make me sceptical .
here is my reason for this scepticism ok the max BHP figure is obtained at 3500 rpm , thats a rev range you can choose to use or avoid depending on how you drive .
However the massive increase in torque is shown at jusT 2300 rpm , which is a rev range thats in regular daily use .
Now please correct me if iam mistaken but its got be mainly extra turbo boost that is being used to create this torque increase and that has to be creating more heat in the engine and strain on the turbo which are the things that are being reported as failing , ie warped manifolds .
 
Iam tempted at the superchips remap with a much more conservative power increase but still need convincing of that . As for the celtic remap , I still have lots of mates in the motor trade and they all shake thier heads when i mention the power figures , and say thats just too much ??


Edited by kernow - 03 Apr 10 at 17:20
my bigest fear is that when I die the missus will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the gas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 10 at 00:44
Originally posted by kernow kernow wrote:

Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

I waited 5 years till I got my 54 plate 174 remapped.
What you guys are saying about bits expiring early may be true if you always
drive your van like you stole it.Wink
I still treat my van carefully because I paid £18400+VAT for it in 2004.
I drove mine in standard format for all that time but now it's remapped
it is so much nicer to drive.More low end torque,better MPG, more tractability - none of
that on/off power characteristic that the standard map supplies.
My van has only just turned 72,000 miles and I need it every day to run my business so
I don't cane around in it.
It is just nicer to drive now and it has a bit more power to safely overtake now and then.
It also doesn't notice as much when it's loaded up with weight either.
Think of it as a fine tuning tool and not "it's gonna blow up before long" LOL


 
I would agree with that, a sensibly driven remapped van (particulary one thats owner driven/needed to earn money) is probably a safer bet than a non remapped communial work van that everybody rags and no one gives a shit about.........
 
 
I can't say Iam as convinced . I too want to do a remap on my 130 , but Iam still sat here , frankly waiting for a thread like this one to reveal some truth .
I can understand the "i don't thrash my van " reasoning , and its celtic's claims of massive power in particular that make me sceptical .
here is my reason for this scepticism ok the max BHP figure is obtained at 3500 rpm , thats a rev range you can choose to use or avoid depending on how you drive .
However the massive increase in torque is shown at jusT300 rpm , which is a rev range thats in regular daily use .
Now please correct me if iam mistaken but its got be mainly extra turbo boost that is being used to create this torque increase and that has to be creating more heat in the engine and strain on the turbo which are the things that are being reported as failing , ie warped manifolds .
 
Iam tempted at the superchips remap with a much more conservative power increase but still need convincing of that . As for the celtic remap , I still have lots of mates in the motor trade and they all shake thier heads when i mention the power figures , and say thats just too much ??



I'm still on my original clutch,DMF,turbo,driveshafts- even water pump etc.
I have always driven the van sensibly and always let the van idle on my driveway
for several minutes after getting home to keep the turbo bearings lubricated with pressurised oil
and allow the turbo to spool down before shutting the motor off.
I think some people don't realise how important that is to turbo longevity as maybe they are
not mechanically minded.
Turbo's when fully boosted up can run as high as 100,000 rpm and if you've been driving hard
and got home and turned the key off then there's zero oil pressure feeding your turbo bearings
and that means more wear on the turbo shaft and early failure.Thumbs Down

However, all moving mechanical parts will wear out sooner or later and need replacement and
the better you look after those parts will dictate how long they last.

I don't think that my remap will shorten the life of anything unless I can't control my
right foot. But I can control mine.Thumbs Up   LOLLOL
2004 T30 174-AXE- CELTIC MAPPED TO 228 BHP - LWB TORNADO RED PANEL VAN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zedzedeleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 10 at 10:39
Suppose I took my van, a humble 85ps and asked the tuner to increase it to a modest 102? It would still be in the vw recommended power output (because they make one). No harm in that surely? Just had another thought. Suppose I took it in to a vw service centre and asked them to do it? Think they would? or could?
1.9 85ps swb 2004 in friesan green.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 10 at 10:47
Originally posted by zedzedeleven zedzedeleven wrote:

Suppose I took my van, a humble 85ps and asked the tuner to increase it to a modest 102? It would still be in the vw recommended power output (because they make one). No harm in that surely? Just had another thought. Suppose I took it in to a vw service centre and asked them to do it? Think they would? or could?
 
Supposedly your 85PS engine is the same as the 102PS engine which is the same as the 130PS engine found in Golfs etc
 
Considering Celtic claim they can get 165PS out of these I would imagine 102PS should be OK, particulary as VW make a 102PS........
 
A VW service centre probably could but wouldnt as it aint company policy
 
Certain manufacturers do offer official remaps though, Mercedes and SAAB I believe, no doubt there are others
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bronco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 10 at 12:07
Hi.
 
When I was looking at a van through a VW dealer, the sales man said they offered a plug in box that would boost power (102 to 130) and was just attached to the existing wires. I think he said it overode the ECU in some way. (£499).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 10 at 13:08
Originally posted by Bronco Bronco wrote:

Hi.
 
When I was looking at a van through a VW dealer, the sales man said they offered a plug in box that would boost power (102 to 130) and was just attached to the existing wires. I think he said it overode the ECU in some way. (£499).
 
All the plug-in boxes I've looked at only alter the fuel injection, not the amount of boost.  So they "sort-of" override the ECU, but only in a very limited way.  If I was spending that sort of money I would want a complete remap.
 
As far as detecting a remap, I understand that there is a number stored in each ECU about how many times it has been flashed.  Some remaps reset this number back to one, some just let it add one to the existing number, and the "least easy to detect" ones leave it unchanged.  Of course it would be easy to log some simple things like the amount of boost the turbo is allowed to make and how much fuel is injected and when; and once these parameters are compared with the known values of a stock std engine then it will be obvious that the ECU has been remapped. 
 
IMO if you are strictly honest and ethical then losing your VW warranty is part of the price you  to pay if you want to modify your van.  If you want to keep your warranty, then you shouldn't be changing it via remaps, suspension, wheels etc. 
 
VW have every right not to cover any repair work and/or parts needed that may reasonably be blamed on changes, which in the case of a remap (or tuning box) will be putting increased stress on a lot of components due to more torque, more power and more heat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kawolsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 10 at 08:28
Originally posted by Bronco Bronco wrote:

Hi.
 
When I was looking at a van through a VW dealer, the sales man said they offered a plug in box that would boost power (102 to 130) and was just attached to the existing wires. I think he said it overode the ECU in some way. (£499).

Was in Cordwallis Maidenhead service desk a few years ago and they has Superchips leaflets on the counter.
Wifes Mini cooper S has a JCW tuning kit which includes a remap, supplied and fitted by BMW. Puts bhp up to near 200... it's fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 10 at 09:32

I did think about getting mine chipped for more low down power rather than more BHP (174 is enough for what I need and I can't afford the tyres) LOL

I agree with Gregs comments about detecting remaps by checking boost levels etc.  Mind you, not so easy if the engine has already blown up....   Just out of interest here is what VCDS had to say about the flash status on my (still unchipped van) a while back.   
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 070 997 016 D
  Component and/or Version: R5 2,5L EDC G000SG  7596
           Software Coding: 0001072
            Work Shop Code: WSC 00358
Advanced Identification
     Serial number: VWZ7Z0C8389072
     Identification: BPG-810
     Revision: 12345678
     Date: 18.10.03
     Manufacturer number: 0065
     Test stand number: 1866
Flash Status
     Programming Attempts: 0
     Successful Attempts: 1
     Programming Status: 00000000
     Required Conditions: 00000001
     Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000
     Flash Date: 00.00.00
Software
     22.12
     U8C3  
Misc.
     Hardware number: 028 101 073 3
Car Info
     Chassis Number: WV1ZZZ7HZ********
2004 2.5 174
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