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red hot exhaust manifold - lt40 2.4 petrol/lpg

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nooberdoober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 01:14
Side tracking from the head for a few nights....I bought this on ebay for a 100squid delivered:



It measured bang on for working on this LT. Even got fully spaced legs that don't taper back in triangle fashion so i get easily get either side of the offside wheel and perfectly where its needed. Very robust heavy old thing but no leaks and it holds 2 ton closed, 1.5 half open and a ton fully extended at 65inches. Though it is a bit awkward to maneuver on the block paving.



And having stripped everything but the oil filter and its housing:



Got some nice welded chain and some chunky shackles from my good friend + a decent extra lifting eye to sit on the front left cylinder head bolt hole:



modified the bolt holes ever so slightly to take a larger bolt (borrowed from the alternator) on the original lifting eye designed to fit on the cylinder head. Fixed it to the rear right pf the block in one of the holes that the heat shield came out of:



and fixed my third chain to the integral lifting eye on the rear left of the DL block:



ready for it to go out the door tmrw sometime...



The vibration damper on the front of the crankshaft has not been removed yet, nor the radiator which could be a disaster waiting to happen but ill see how much clearance i need. hopefully if i careful i'll get away with it as is.
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 12:24
You may get away with some hardboard to make it easier to traverse the cobbles.
1989 LT28 2.4D    Saviour of 6Music, well one of them. Now playing http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_6music

VW LT Camper not Cramper

....at least the roof is not rusting away....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 17 at 00:49
It went accross the cobbles with a bit of grunt. Good hoist that! Here's the lifting once free from the bellhousing:



begun to wonder whether it would be too tall to get past the height of the door when it was at full lifting height:





The crane arm did have to be brought down a few inches to get it passed the top of the door frame thanks to the clumsy great big bulb sump on the DL,  i had to lift it pretty high. Stuck some wood under the sump to lower the block down onto, that enabled me to slip the engine across the seating floor area without getting snagged on anything while the crane arm was manipulated past the door frame. It was easy enough I'm happy to say:



I left the drivers side engine mounting on the block so i had a robust guard against accidentally crunching anything against the oil filter neck and it helped when i lay it down onto my pallet.
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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nooberdoober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 17 at 11:16
Once it was out I had the clutch plates off from the flywheel for inspection:

hmmm, that doesnt look particularly good. They arent deep gouges though, just scuff/burn. When my seat is in different position (further back i think) sometimes I operate the clutch differently and my clutch control goes out the window....perhaps this is the result of all that snatching...


Here's the sprung bit:


and the two friction areas:


the pads on this friction face are nearly gone, maybe 1mm before they are no longer distinguishable as pads:




Yesterday night I finally got the sump off. Here is crankcase with pistons in:



and with pistons out:



and measured the gap between the rings and their respective groove for clearances. Book says max 0.2mm for upper ring is wear limit, so nearly all upper rings are out of tolerance but the I couldnt get a 0.05 between the lower ring and the oil scraper so they fall within limits. I think this might mean i need new set across the board:


Heres a look at all of the big end shell bearings and the respective piston thrust faces:

Cyl1:


Cyl2:


Cyl3:


Cyl4:



Cyl5:






Cyl6:





This is obviously where it gets expensive :( but never mind...might as well suck it up and have nice reconditioned engine now i've come this far. This time, I'm getting a flash lube installation and will add a dose of 2 stroke oil to my petrol tank to keep the carb lubed.
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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nooberdoober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 17 at 17:17
Back on with the preparation of the head components. We discovered that the cast iron exhaust manifolds mating faces were not sitting perfectly flat against the head so my good friend milled the mating faces so that they sat nice and true.

In order to get a parallel face to set up the manifold onto the mill, the opposing flat was milled:



And with that done, we could set the manifold up ready to mill the main faces where it butts up to the head:



and the milling begins:



here they are looking lovely and fresh ready to mate back up to the head:



And here are the two sides of the cam cover looking a lot nicer ready to fit back on when the head is ready. both need another coat yet but you get the idea:



inside is done with Chromate etch primer which will hopefully give some resistance to the oil:


I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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nooberdoober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 17 at 12:00
So last night was cleaning the faces of the block. Begun knocking the majority of the crud from the block and giving it a cursory wash with some petrol:






and then giving each of the main faces a good rub down with a mixture of the sanding block, scotchbrite and the abrasive stone.

Sump side:



Head side:



Flywheel end:



Pully end:



and then had the cylinders honed roughly so we could more clearly see the nature of the wear:





Close up of the wear:



Score marks:



You can see a fair amount of wear across all of the cylinder but number 2 and 6 were by far the worst:



And then, a quick look at the little water pipe fitment casting that attaches to the head which had suffered from a bit of nasty corrosion. The new one has been cast from lycoming aircraft engine pistons melted down and reformed:



Really excellent job and these ones have got a bit more meat on them so they hopefully last a tad longer than their predecessors. Here is the milled face before the neck is shaped and the holes drilled:


I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 13:06
Milling AND casting Heart

Top job.
1989 LT28 2.4D    Saviour of 6Music, well one of them. Now playing http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_6music

VW LT Camper not Cramper

....at least the roof is not rusting away....
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nooberdoober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 13:41
:) I'd be stuffed without a little help from my good friends!! 
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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robbydoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 09:29
New you would end up taking it out LOLLOLLOL
 
If it was me for the money involved it would be having new rings, mains and big ends.
 
My flywheel was like that but just polished it up and fitted new oil seal, bearing and full clutch kit.
 
Good works fella Big smile
1985 LT40 2.4TD Coach built Pioneer Diamond
1983 1.9DG Autosleeper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 12:02
:) The new oversize pistons are on order and come with rings and pins. The 0.5mm over bore is gonna be ready by time i get back from work next week. I've ordered new shell bearings for the crank shaft, bottom end gasket set is on its way and likewise the shell bearings for the big ends. Think i'll order the little bearings that ensure the crankshaft end float is as spec too although they were nice and tight and didnt really show any signs of wear. 

The other issue i wanted to look at was the oil pressure. Im pretty sure it was running a bit high and despite changing out the pressure sensor it never stopped the light coming on so I tested the pressure with one of them screw in pressure testers for a while (before the rubber hose on it rotted away due to being left sitting for a couple of years without use while i was travelling) and it measured quite high oil pressure.....i can't remember exactly what the pressure reading was but it was close to the pressure that the relief valve is meant to kick in at. I've looked at the relief valve and the oil pump and the oil pick up assembly and can't see any defunct or blocked parts so it still needs looking into. I've got a nice shiny new digital pressure reader that I'm going to wire in when its ready to run again but hope to find some anomaly that might have been causing higher than specified pressure before all the work has been done bolting it back together.

Need to find the right clutch kit for it. Theres a lot of price variation on the ebay for these 3 piece kits and want to find the good one with matching original quality. 

Not sure If I should re-use the old conrod bolts or not. I know that mine are the original type and not the new stretch bolt style that would surely then have to be replaced.


Edited by nooberdoober - 01 Nov 17 at 12:04
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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robbydoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 16:29
Hopefully the overbore will make it go faster LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
Good works mate Big smile
1985 LT40 2.4TD Coach built Pioneer Diamond
1983 1.9DG Autosleeper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 16:48
:)! we worked it out that it would knock it up to a true 2.4 instead of a 2384cc
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 17 at 09:19
It's all gone very quiet?!?!?!
 
Confused
1985 LT40 2.4TD Coach built Pioneer Diamond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 17:06
Afternoon all

So yes its been a while since my last postings. I've really struggled to get these pistons so have opted, to order some custom oversize (+0.5mm) pistons from JE in the states which have been ordered today and should be here just before xmas hopefully. 

To everyone who helped me look for existing stock, thank you. I appreciate it. Couldn't find them anywhere though so am sucking up the cost of some custom pistons. 

We had the crankshaft back on with one piston properly in place and discovered that there is roughly 4.3mm of clear space between the piston crown and the top of the bore. So as they are being totally made up new, I have asked JE to add 1.3mm to the crown height and reposition the top ring a tiny bit higher. The maths says it'll give a significant improvement to the compression ratio which is currently 8.1:1 with the increase bringing it to roughly 9.5:1.  Prob could have added a touch more but didnt want to be greedy. currently, it should still be valve safe with 1mm + gasket for clearance if anything went disastrously wrong.

ALso, I have been talked into replacing the exhaust valve seat inserts with super tough nickel based alloy ones, at ridiculous expense. Having mulled it over I can't help but agree it is the way to go with all this other work thats gone into getting it fixed up. It'll love that LPG by the time i'm finished with it!!!

Main reason for this unexpected addition was that we tested the camshaft back on with one of the valve sets put back together and discovered that the old seat inserts had really receded and the exhaust valve wasnt closing properly. We could have looked at taking a bit off of the valve stems but as it's gonna run on lpg, and because we've now got time on our hands waiting for the pistons.... :)

We measured the first seat with the old insert still in there and got the outer diameter right first time but the feckin engineering place i got them from still sent me inserts that were identical in size to the hole they had to go back into. Now have had to order some slightly larger ones and will machine some off accurately when they arrive. 


Heres the process so far:

So.....having already skimmed the head...there's only a fraction left that can be re-skimmed if this goes wrong so I'm nervous of the whole process. Lots of heating and cooling to undergo now we've decided on new high temp inserts. Here is the nicely skimmed head all masked up to stop as much welding splatter as poss.



Welding the first seat to create a lip which can be used to then slide hammer the old seat out.




and the gentle slide hammering:



I've been reliably informed that the process of welding a ridge onto the inner diameter of the seat inserts is known in the trade as "Welding a cat's bum" onto it....

Here is an example of said anatomy, which split in two and had to be welded twice. Also the first of the wrongly sized new nickel inserts that has now been sent back while we wait for larger ones to arrive:



The measurements for these are as follows:

Outer diameter of insert:

Inner diameter of seat insert:


Depth measurement of seat insert:


and the corresponding bore diameter on the head:


Apparently the ideal interference between the outer diameter of the bore and the edge of the insert should be between 0.0015in and 0.0019in...which should hopefully be just enough once the new inserts are frozen and the head baked, to allow them to drop in with minimal pressure exerted on the head. 

As you can see, the new inserts were a tiny little bit too small. I'd have used them, as it seems the old inserts outer diameter is identical to the new ones but my exceptionally particular engineering buddy has told me off....What do i know...:



Fingers crossed!!!!
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 18:14
Gutted for you that my diagnosis of the valves being held open was correct, no idea how the hell it was caused I suppose.
Still when finished you will have one mega engine and a great selling point should you ever need to sell. Can't wait to see how she goes.
There is one thing I'd mention, not for you but others. If the head is borderline before skimming etc try 2 head gaskets. This was the fix for my old volvo when unleaded came in.
LT28 1979 2.0 Pampas Nevada Camper LPG 93K, 1980 T3 A/C Camper 98K,1994 RRC 3.9 LPG 120k , 1998 Audi A6 Est 2.5 V6 diesel 127k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 17 at 18:37
Here are the very lovely looking exhaust manifolds, shot blasted, faces milled, high temp heat paint ready to bake ona nd lovely new studs and brass exhaust nuts:



The lovely new water pipe attachment finished and bolted on:



and the dirty sump before I got fed up of wire brushing and had it blasted and zinc coated:


I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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nooberdoober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 17 at 01:46
Here is the super sexy sump, roughed up but not pinholed by the sandblasting company in peterborough, then zinc plated for my peace of mind. I'll stick some paint on it in a few days once its had a meticulous washing:


They got in all the nooks and crannies very nicely:


and now has a rough texture to which the paints can adhere nicely.




I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 17 at 02:12
Originally posted by AndyT AndyT wrote:

Gutted for you that my diagnosis of the valves being held open was correct, no idea how the hell it was caused I suppose.

Well, having seen how much stuff needed attention, i'm sure lots of things led to it being in such bad condition but with this particular issue, i think micro welding might be the fault (due to everything being a bit hotter with the lpg and no upper cyl lubricant). 

So apparently as the valve contacts the exhaust valve seat insert at 1000s rpm, the contact between the two can remove some microns of seat insert material(unless they are hardened to cope), is more prevalent with hotter burning fuels and lean mixtures and effectively slowly reduces the seat insert height and closes the clearances up so much that the whole lot goes out of time and roasts itself. 

The exhaust clearance was practically zero and so the cams will have opened and closed the valves at the wrong time in relation to the ignition, flames will have been continually leaping into holes that they shouldn't under high pressure for a long long long long time....while the exhaust continued to glow....and while i adjusted any number of unrelated and probably damaging things....remember this initial glowing exhaust s**t started in 2013! :)

If it hadnt come apart when it did, i'd have been on the side of the road somewhere very soon afterwards, extremely pissed off.

My good fortune really!
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nooberdoober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 15:40
So my oversized nickel alloy seat inserts have arrived and we've been beginning the process of measuring them accurately, making a small jig to allow the outer diameter to be turned easily and more measuring and measuring again. Seems to me that this is the most involved part of the process so far. These obviously have to be bang on in terms of the final size so that we dont crack the head when we press the new seats in and so that they have exactly the perfect interferance fit so that they dont work themselves loose over time.

These cost a whopping £28 quid per insert. Tired of getting screwed....Gosnays engineering....i won't be giving you a good review anytime soon.

5 of the new seat inserts were fine, completely intact. 1 of the new inserts already had a 45 degree shoulder cut into it as though someone had begun to use it previously and decided it wasnt what they needed before sticking it back on the shelf at gosnays. Luckily for me, enough material needed to be removed from this seat in order to make it fit, that the shoulder previously cut into it completely vanished. 

Anyway here it goes. First measuring the new seats:







clocked new seat inserts in 4 jaw chuck and turned the inner diameter carefully to match that of the original seats so that it could then sit on out new jig:


We used an old Ford Pinto camshaft as billet to begin crafting the jig:



turned the lobes carefully off of the cams:


with the new seat inner diameter set, and the jig ready, we can begin to turn the outer diameter:



finishing the outer diameter with a slightly rough but uniform surface texture using the air grinder and honing stone. 


New seat insert at correct dimensions next to jig. Just need to put a smooth leading edge on, to aid pressing them in:



Then the old, new and freshly worked inserts.

New unworked seat:



New worked seat:

old seat:


Sump primed and blacked before I laquer it and cover it in Waxoil:








Edited by nooberdoober - 12 Dec 17 at 15:41
I got me a 2.4 straight Six......and it's a soundin JUICY!

1984 LT40 2.4 petrol Coachbuilt Autotrail Motorhome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 17 at 12:12
Excellent work so far.Thumbs Up
1989 LT28 2.4D    Saviour of 6Music, well one of them. Now playing http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_6music

VW LT Camper not Cramper

....at least the roof is not rusting away....
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