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Rear Brake Pressure Regulator/Booster

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volition82 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 17:59
Well I've made a start.  The first thing I did was to measure the travel when connected.  I then cut the pipes and measured the overall travel of the regulator.  There's 10mm of travel in the genuine regulator and mine was at full travel/load.  The new regulator has 15mm of travel.
 
I was concerned that the new regulator might work in a different way i.e. one might pull against the spring and the other push against the spring (if you know what I mean?).  Luckily I have access to a car which has the same type of regulator as the one I bought.  So I could check that they both work the same way.  The more weight you have in the van or car the more tension on the spring.  This in turn pulls the regulator arm nearer the regulator body i.e. pushes the plunger into the body of the regulator.  When you press the brake the fluid pressure pushes the lever arm away from the body i.e. pushes the plunger out from the regulator body.  It took me a little while to get my head around this.  I assumed that pressing the brake would move the plunger the same way as it does when you increase the load.  Maybe that's just my simplistic way of looking at things or perhaps I'm a bit thick?  in the end I gave up trying to work out the logic of it and just took it for what it is.
 
I then set about trying to fit the new regulator in the same position and angle as the old one.  The new regulator lever/arm is shorter.  Typically it wouldn't fit on the bracket for the genuine regulator.  I had to go and get a new bit of plate and extend the original.  I did this by bolting it to the old one.  I then gave it a coat of paint for good measure.  That was enough for me today because I was fed up of lying in puddles of water because it has been raining for most of the day.
 
I'm going to do some more tomorrow and hopefully finish it.  It's just a case of making the brake pipes, bleeding the brakes, adjusting the tension and taking it for a test drive.  While I'm on the subject of bleeding the brakes, I have a question.  Am I right in assuming that the front and rear brakes are on separate systems?  Therefore I only have to bleed the rear brakes?  When I cut the pipes all the brake fluid drained out of the reservoir in the dash.  But I'm assuming that if the brake pedal isn't pushed when it is like this and as long as I fill the reservoir up slowly before pressing the brake pedal the front brakes will remain air free?
 
I'll take some pictures of the work so far tomorrow when it stop's raining.


Edited by volition82 - 08 Oct 13 at 18:06
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 19:42
The fronts and rears are two separate systems linked at the regulator. I think the routing means you should be good for the bleeding malarkey.

So far so good. Weather down your way is good tomorrow but down to 6*C on Thursday. Better get a wriggle on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 13 at 19:30
Well today was a complete waste of time.  I got nowhere.  I made a couple of mistakes with the brake pipes in the planning stage or lack of it!  I got carried away making sure the regulator was the right one and that it would work.  I just thought I've got to extend four brake pipes so I need some pipe, fittings and flaring tools.  What I forgot was the pipes have a flexible joint in them.  The old regulator needed one and the new one needs two.  So, I had to order another flexible brake pipe.
 
Another error was in my choice of flaring kit.  It seems when it comes to buying brake pipe flaring tools, if you buy cheap, you buy twice.  The die wasn't deep enough or big enough.  The grip part of the pipe clamp was made of cheese and completely disappeared after being used a couple of times.  The die also snapped after being used for a bit.  Complete rubbish.  I have bought a Draper 23313 brake flaring tool.  It looks to be reasonable quality and up to the job.  The other one would hardly do copper pipe so there was no way it would do the OEM steel pipes.
 
Product Details
 
The kick in the nuts is when I've looked at the brake pipe angle of the job in more detail I didn't need to cut the original pipes.  The two which come from the T-junction on the axle don't have much room between them.  But I could have bent them 90 degrees and moved it a bit here and there.  I could have then joined them straight to the flexible pipes.  Where I have had to lower the new regulator there is room for a couple of short extensions between the original pipes and the regulator.
 
A couple of pictures of the work so far.
 
 
 
 


Edited by volition82 - 09 Oct 13 at 21:19
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 13 at 20:13
Always something to put paid to a well laid plan.

Instead of buying flexibles you could put a loop or two in the pipe.

Nice choice of underbody coatingThumbs Up ?Factory Approved?

I got these from Frost. Did my replacement cupro fine.
Brake Pipe Flaring Tool SetBrake Pipe and Tube Bender
The flaring tool is a bit cumbersome, but I can use it under the van, which is where most of the work needs doing.

Kee up the good work, and chin up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 13 at 20:55
You have got to use flexible pipes because what I forgot is the regulator is fixed to the chassis and the rear brakes are fixed to the axle.  Obvious that the two constantly move because of the suspension when you think about.  I just didn't think about it LOL
 
Funny enough I looked at the tool you bought and it was a close call between the two.
 
Quote Nice choice of underbody coatingThumbs Up ?Factory Approved?
 
You forget how much work you put into something.  I painted all the underside and top of the floor with Hammerite.  Basically if it didn't moved it got painted.  Spent a bloody fortune on the stuff.


Edited by volition82 - 09 Oct 13 at 20:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 13 at 20:44
Managed to finish fitting the regulator and make the brake pipes yesterday, led on my back in the rain.  Bloody grim when you have to do that.  I had to space the regulator out from the plate because the hinge for the arm is level with the body of the regulator.  I did this by putting a couple of nuts locked against each other between the regulator and the plate.
 
Today I bled the system and set the spring.  I'm lucky in the fact that my old regulator was at full travel so it makes setting up the new one a lot easier.  I've adjusted the spring so it is nearly at it's weakest setting on the new regulator and this has given full power/regulator travel to the rear brakes ( I slacken it after the first photo was taken).
 
It appears to be ok.  You press the brake and the back wheels lock up and you can see the regulator arm working the way it should.  I have done a very scientific test to check the power is even to both the rear brakes.  I put a piece of wood between the steering wheel and pedal to activate the brakes and tried to turn both wheels by hand LOL  The shoes and drums are new and not fully bedded in so I could just turn them a little bit.  So, I think they are somewhere near even.
 
For those of you that don't know, there is a new Mot test for the brakes.  They have to be even across the axle, well within 30%.  This has been causing problem's because the way the test is carried out.  I'm not 100% clear on the details but I think it's done by when the brakes lock.  Apparently this isn't a true test of the brakes and it can cause problem's.  Say for example one wheel goes through a puddle or you have uneven weight across the axle it will give an uneven reading when there isn't one.  The weight aspect could be a problem for those of us who have motorhome's.  The layout of the interior is likely to cause uneven weight across the axle.  I was reading a post on one forum where a member said they had a 20 stone Mot tester and his failure rate on brake balance across the axle was 99% !!!
 
I can't Mot the van for a couple of week's so I'm going to have to wait to see if it's good enough to pass.  I pleased with the way it's gone so far.  There was a lot which could have gone wrong but it all seems to work the right way.  So, finger's and everything else crossed.
 
A few pictures of the finished job.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by volition82 - 14 Oct 13 at 20:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 00:48
Good work! So when will you start marketing a bolt-in kit? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 06:26
Proper good work there.Thumbs Up

You could ask for a brake test. My tester said the new type tests give definitive readings, whereas the two-man old type allow the tester to take into account the load and its' distribution more.


Edited by LTCamper89 - 15 Oct 13 at 06:26
1989 LT28 2.4D    Saviour of 6Music, well one of them. Now playing http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_6music

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveSt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 22:20
Awesome job. I wonder how much time you spent on it.

For want of something better to do this evening I put the VW brake regulator part no into google and came up with - hcsale.com. who listed them. Emailed him and got a response in a couple of hours. saying
"Hello Steve,
Yes this part is still available delivery time a few days"
PM me for the contact details. He is based in Holland
And I also come across something cross referencing it with a DAF part! DAF1518097



Edited by SteveSt - 15 Oct 13 at 22:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 08:08
LOLLOLLOL That's bloody typical!
 
I must have contacted 12-15 different companies via a Google search and elsewhere.  They all came back with not available.  I even ordered a Brake Booster from Mister Auto which didn't have a picture but the part number was the same except the last two numbers were swapped around.  Turned out to be a Servo.  It would be interesting to see if it actually arrives.
 
If mine doesn't pass the Mot like it is, I'll pm you for the detail's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveSt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 08:45
"It would be interesting to see if it actually arrives."
Me likewise!
He has accepted me as a Skype contact. If/when he pops up I'll ask him some more direct questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lorryloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 13:22
Yes great work V82 and well documented good luck with test wonder what cost of new original one is if available after all your hard work !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 22:28
The price of the original Regulator was over £300, nearer £350 iirc.  If my conversion does work it's worth considering on a cost basis.  The new regulator is £60-80,  an extra flexible pipe, bit of copper pipe and a few fittings.  Under £100 if you have brake flaring tool's.  But saying that if I could have sourced an original I would have bitten said hand off LOL
 
I've been thinking on SteveSt's find today.  I think all the companies I contacted were either in the UK, Germany or sourced part's from Germany (VW Heritage for example).  I wonder if Germany is out of stock but Holland is on a different system like the UK?
 
I'm going to take up LTCamper's suggestion of getting the brakes tested before the Mot.  Should be able to do that in the next couple of day's.  I'll let you know how I get on.
 
On a separate note.  Lorryloader - Did you manage to source your shim's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lorryloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 11:06
Good info again but  i would say most of us would not have the ability or facilities to do the job wonder what a garage would charge ? Yes would be good if Holland had other obsolete parts also,yes thank you i have ordered them from vw heritage as reported on another thread there is no phone contact for vw classic so too much is 'lost in translation' !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveSt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 11:16
I have just spoken on Skype with the guy in Holland
The gist of the convo being that he is having brake parts made by Bosch in Italy.
I have sent him pics of my old unit which he seemed to think would not be a problem to source.
Is this a lucky find - I hope so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 12:06
Asked our local DAF dealer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveSt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 12:08
and?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LTCamper89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 12:59
If there was an 'and' I would not have kept you waiting.

Awaiting a reply SteveSt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 13 at 15:55
On Friday I set off to the garage to get the brakes tested.  But I noticed the van was pulling to the right under heavy braking.  Long story, short.  After two day's of crawling around under the van I think I had a partially blocked brake pipe.  I suspect it has been like that for a while because it ties in with not having to adjust the nearside brake shoes as much as the offside (my old shoes had no automatic adjuster).
 
Not long back from the garage and my rear brakes seem to be fine.  The chap at the garage said they gave a good reading.  Slight imbalance, upto 10-15% but he thinks that is probably down to weight distribution.  Good enough to pass though as the maximum is 30%.  I was quite surprised because the van did pull to the offside under heavy braking every now and then.  I think that might be down to weight because the right side of the van is heavier. 
 
Anyway it is good enough to pass that's all I'm worried about.  Mot Friday so I'll keep you updated on the results of that.  Should be ok but I'm always sceptical until I've got that piece of paper in my hand.


Edited by volition82 - 21 Oct 13 at 15:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 13 at 16:09
Originally posted by volition82 volition82 wrote:

I tried the alfa place. He had one for £100 which he said looked like it had been replaced at some point. Plus £30 which was refundable when i returned mine. Which i thought was a bit odd for a scrap yard. Makes me think they can be re-conditioned.

I've bought another second hand one which i'll send off and see if it can be re-conditioned.
 
If you remove the seals they will have a part number on them and probably a size and manufacturer`s name
 all you need is the size ,if the cylinder is ok you can just source the seals and replace them
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