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quick bit of help needed

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Canada LT28 View Drop Down
Vanorak
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    Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 00:57
As you can see by the photo below the wheel fell off.........now stop laughingCry

It seems that the bolts actually pulled out of the hub. Due to it being night time I haven't been able to tell yet what is to blame, the studs or the casting of the hub but some of the bolts have stripped threads, pulled right through. No damage to the suspension or the disc or caliper.

Does anyone know of or have a couple of front hubs they could ship over ASAP? kind of important as it is my daily driver.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 01:21
Looks like it is part # 281407611 from Vagcat

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GT500 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 09:46
I'd take the hub off and get it to an engineering shop. Get them to weld up the holes, redrill and tap. It will be stronger than the original.
Quickest route...


Rob... The only LT on 18" wheels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 10:19
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Volkswagon-LT35-van-89F-petrol-front-hub-bearing-/170438673874?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item27aeefc5d2#ht_1546wt_1172
 
But the guy is away until the 2/1/13 or if you put in 'breaking vw lt' there are quite a few old shapes.  Sure somebody would be able to help.
 
I had a problem a while ago with a few studs snapping caused by a binding brake caliper.  One of the studs was also stripped but the threads in the hub were ok.  You might get away with just the studs as a temporay fix.  As long as the studs do up to the right torque you should be ok.  The studs were £7 each iirc. 
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 12 at 10:56
yes, some of the bolts have sheared so i will look at that first. I wondered if the the reall problem is that my winter rims need to have a 1.25" thick wheel adapter to go from 160 pcd to a 140 pcd with steel rims  and I redrilled some alloy wheels to fit for the summer (no adapter necessary).

I may have to splurge and ship some of those transit steel rims over from the UK of the offset is really the cause of this.Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 12 at 11:59
Update, took everything apart and the hubs into the shop (-6 and snowing so fucked if I will do everything outside). I chased the threads on the hubs but they didn't look like they were stripped but a few of the bolts threads were bad. Bought new ones from VW and torqued them to 85lb/ft.

WHY?

I cannot figure out what would do this. The bolts were a high grade so I wonder if I just over torqued them but if this had happened on the highway......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 09:54
I'm guessing that the Germans had the sense to make the bolts slightly weaker (but maybe a bit to weak LOL) than the hubs so if the threads go you don't have to buy a new hub.
 
Your bolts probably went for the same reason as mine, constant hot/cold/hot/cold and age.  They are going to get hot when you brake and then in the winter because it's so cold in Canada it's hot and cold all the time and over the years its weakened them.
 
I'd check the other side and see if any of the threads have stretched or are on there way out.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 11:54
I bought new bolts including new ones long enough for a T4. Using the wheel adapter and the standard bolt, there are about 4 threads showing at the end of the hub so the bolt does not penetrate 100%. I don't know if it matters that the bolt does not go all the way through. The standard bolts are about 27mm and the T4 bolts are 35mm or something like that. It does hit -12C these days but we don't get the -30C often (we did years ago) where I am but by UK standards ......bloody cold.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 12:20
Originally posted by Canada LT28 Canada LT28 wrote:

I don't know if it matters that the bolt does not go all the way through.

TBH, I think the adaptors are probably the biggest factor in this case. There will be greater leverage on the bolts (as the wheel is further away from the hub flange) and also a greater load per thread (as less threads are engaged). Longer bolts will help the latter, but thread stripping wasn't the sole original cause of failure.

Depending on the steel alloy used for the bolts, and the heat treatment process carried out, there can be some permanent metallurgical changes if extremely low temperature are experienced. In a nutshell, retained austenite (ductile) can transform to martensite (brittle) with cryogenic treatment. In a previous job we used to freeze parts at between -70 °C and -150 °C prior to tempering if required. I doubt whether -12 or even -30 °C would have a significant effect though.

I assume you weren't going for this look?



Edited by mat_the_cat - 03 Jan 13 at 12:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 13:27
How did you know this was my inspiration?LOL

I did wonder about the offset provided by the adapters but they have only been used for the last two winters as the conti on re-drilled alloys are good for the summer (160pcd). The winter rims have a negative offset so the actual offset is abouT3mm wider than the original wheel.

I would rather not use the adapters but a suitable steel rim has not presented itself to me yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 15:13
My first thought was that 3 mm won't make any difference as the dish will near enough cancel the extra leverage of the adaptor. But if you think about it a bit more then you will be putting different forces through it.

If you imagine a cross section through the wheel and adaptor, it will be in the shape of a shallow U on its side. Now think about a bar bent into the shape of that U on its side, with you holding it at one end and a weight at the other. With a shallow U (i.e. little dish/offset) you'll have no problems keeping it horizontal, but as the U gets deeper there will be more and more twisting force acting on it so more difficult to hold it in the same position.

It may be that those extra twisting forces coupled with normal loadings are above the fatigue strength of the bolts used, causing early failure? Maybe replace them regularly. Having said that though, there must be loads of people using adaptors without dished wheels, and no problems so maybe yours is a freak occurrence!

Are the adaptors rated for the weight of your truck? Obviously the adaptors themselves are fine but if they're designed/tested for a car the extra weight of the truck might be something that was never designed for, and stronger bolts might be needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeJay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 13 at 17:14
Originally posted by mat_the_cat mat_the_cat wrote:

My first thought was that 3 mm won't make any difference as the dish will near enough cancel the extra leverage of the adaptor. But if you think about it a bit more then you will be putting different forces through it.
 
Mat, looking at Canada's post he probably meant the offest is about twentyfive mm, but put the figure as a number and the swear filter would have automatically changed about(25)mm to abouT3mm, a 25mm offset as you say would have greatly increased the leverage on the studs/hub. 


Edited by BeJay - 03 Jan 13 at 17:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 13 at 00:39
Haha, I didn't look at the post after I wrote. Yes it is (25)mm. The actual adapter is about 32mm but the rim is centered outboard more than the stock VW rim so I figured on 25. I made the adapters myself and they have worked well for the last couple of years. Maybe the bolts were just over torqued. Anyway, I do want to get rid of them and I would bite the bullet and ship over transit rims if I need to.





Edited by Canada LT28 - 05 Jan 13 at 00:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 13 at 23:58
It looks like the PCD for the 2009 transits are also 160mm. anyone know why they would not fit on the LT?

It seems that the Nissan Trade (new to me), produced in Spain from 87 to 04 also had a 5 by 160mm PCD..........in case anyone gives a shitWink


Edited by Canada LT28 - 06 Jan 13 at 00:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 13 at 19:43
Never heard of the Nissan Trade either, but if it gives an extra source of wheels then that's useful. Now I've Googled it I have seen it when abroad, but not over here :-(

The Transit wheels rely on a centre spigot for centralisation, and hence the wheel bolt/stud holes are flat. The LT has conical nuts/bolts and a corresponding profile on the wheels to centralise them, so you'd need to match that profile on the Transit wheels. If you can knock up those adapters then modifying the wheels shouldn't be a problem!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 13 at 02:44
Nope, it would be no problem to adapt the transit wheels. I have a mill and lathe and the right 60 deg cutter so the bolts will deform a transit rim properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Uberhare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 00:48
I have a set of 15" transit wheels for my bus.  Haven't tried them yet, but you are welcome to check them out first hand when you come for the throttle cable.

Jason

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 13 at 02:22
That would be great. I changed the studs on one of the rear wheels, bitch to get off but I'm glad I did so i feel a bit safer on the highway as i was riding around on 4 studs for a while. If this weekend is nice, I may come out. I'll drop you an email.
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