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Electric Shower Problems

Printed From: The Brick-yard
Category: The Brickyard
Forum Name: The Brickie's Arms
Forum Description: THE online pub for the discerning Transporter owner, Come in, Kick back and settle with a pint and talk cobblers.
URL: http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94295
Printed Date: 29 Jan 20 at 01:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Electric Shower Problems
Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Subject: Electric Shower Problems
Date Posted: 19 Nov 19 at 07:53
Greetings Brickies,
 
In my rented flat I have a Stiebel Eltron DHB 18kw water heater that should provide enough hotwater to fill a bath/run a shower.
 
It has three temp settings 35/45/55c and it should flow between 9-12 litres a minute at these temps.
It does not, if you turn the water on too much the heating drops out and you have a cold shower.
 
I've looked at the wiring and it's a 400v 3 phase set up.
 
The neutral is not connected and the terminals (from Bottom to Top) 2-4 have the three phases connected to them. Across terminals 2 and 3 I have 400v. I am pretty sure that the landlord has wired it up incorrectly. How can I check the wiring out?
 
Cheers
Paul
 


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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E



Replies:
Posted By: tellytubby
Date Posted: 25 Nov 19 at 13:22
I am not an electrician but my understanding is that with 3 phase star wiring you do not necessarily require a neutral so this setup is probably ok.

For it to run you will need all 3 phases connected.  It will stop running if one of the phases is disconnected - this is why only one terminal is marked as a switched input.

Be aware that the hazard with this setup is that it is live even when apparently switched off!

TT


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 27 Nov 19 at 11:25
Cheers TT

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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 02 Dec 19 at 21:59
I'm not an electrician either but if the elements are wired in star then they will require a neutral, so looks like yours are wired in delta where they don't.

Often the manufacturer includes a wiring diagram on the inside of the casing.

I have used this forum for any electrical questions and they have been very helpful:

https://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/" rel="nofollow - https://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/


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'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 03 Dec 19 at 07:22
Cheers Mike.

-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 03 Dec 19 at 13:44
No worries mate.

If you want to check the elements then with the incoming power switched off (always check with a meter to be doubly sure) test each pair of the 3 phase wires in turn for resistance; 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and then 4 to 2 with the heater itself switched on.

They should all be equal confirming that all 3 elements are OK. 


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'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 03 Dec 19 at 23:56
Originally posted by Titus A Duxass Titus A Duxass wrote:

Greetings Brickies,
 
The neutral is not connected and the terminals (from Bottom to Top) 2-4 have the three phases connected to them. Across terminals 2 and 3 I have 400v. I am pretty sure that the landlord has wired it up incorrectly. How can I check the wiring out?
 
Cheers
Paul
 



Didn't spot the last bit before. You should have 400v between 2 and 3, 2 and 4 and also 3 and 4. Sounds like you have lost a phase, or as you say the supply end of cable 3 may not be connected correctly. Can you check the supply fuses - one may have blown.


-------------
'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 04 Dec 19 at 14:17
Originally posted by Mike Noc Mike Noc wrote:


Didn't spot the last bit before. You should have 400v between 2 and 3, 2 and 4 and also 3 and 4. Sounds like you have lost a phase, or as you say the supply end of cable 3 may not be connected correctly. Can you check the supply fuses - one may have blown.

Thanks for the update.
The fuses are okay, each phase has its own circuit breaker.

I'll check the villages again this weekend and report back.

Titus


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 08 Dec 19 at 13:15
Okay, I've just checked.
I have 400v between 2 and 4.
Between 2 & 3 and 4 & 3 I only have 250v.


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 10:40
As we don't have a circuit diagram to go on, if you isolate the circuit at the breaker and then disconnect the 3 wires at the chocblock going into the heater itself (just to take it out of the equation) then turn the power back on and measure across the 3 terminals again.

If you get the same reading on the supply cables as you got before then trace back the cable going into terminal 3 as with those readings it looks like it has been connected to neutral.

Might be worth checking the spare neutral cable 'cos it may be live - wouldn't be the first time I've come across that.

If you get something different post it up and we can go from there.


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'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 11:28
Cheers mate.
I now have enough information to make the landlord do something.
He installed the heater despite not being qualified to do so.


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 09 Dec 19 at 13:48
Your're more than welcome Paul. The landlord shouldn't be buggering about installing 3 phase equipment if he doesn't know what he is doing.

Good luck with getting it sorted.


-------------
'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 06:41
I've just discovered that if I touch the metal surround of the hob with one hand and then touch the body of my electric toaster with the other I get a light shock.

He says my toaster is kaput, what an arse!


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 09:49
Mate get a qualified electrician in to check all the wiring in the flat and send him the bill.


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'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 10 Dec 19 at 11:03
I think that's probably the best solution.

-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 13 Dec 19 at 13:26
I sorted a similar problem once.

In that instance, the tenant's iron
was incorrectly wired.

Your landlord is legally obliged
to have your wiring inspected
and certificated.

By Law, he must display the certificate.
Ditto your gas if you have any.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 08:10
Update.
The landlord came round on Friday.
 
He insisted that the shower was working correctly - until he tried to use it.
Then he announced that it is kaputt, he will order a new (better one).
 
He tested the 3 phases and said that one is a bit low but that is because the heater is pulling it down!
 
Anyway I have not disuaded him from ordering a new one.
 
We then went on to the toaster problem, again he insisted that it was my toaster.
I showed the same "fault" with a second toaster and an iron.
 
I took his test meter, connected it to the earth terminal in the socket that feeds the toaster and to the hob surround - he then said that something is wrong and proceeded to dismantle the socket!
 
After 30 minutes he admitted that he had no idea what the problem is and that we must get an electrician to check it out but that won't happen until after Christmas. I said okay I will not pay the full rent until it is fixed. He's not happy with that idea........
 
 


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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 08:34
Get a certificated electrician to sort it.

Send your landlord the bill.

Deduct the cost from your rent.

Unless your landlord is a short guy,
with a moustache who shouts a lot :o)




Posted By: Timjburrows
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 10:28
Originally posted by Titus A Duxass Titus A Duxass wrote:

I've just discovered that if I touch the metal surround of the hob with one hand and then touch the body of my electric toaster with the other I get a light shock.

He says my toaster is kaput, what an arse!
that sounds like you earths not connected or the earth rod isn’t earthing properly,


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 11:04
Very true Tim 
 
Earth bonding is a whole can of worms though.
You need a lot of expensive kit to check it.
And a lot of know how to sort it.

From what Titus says,
I think the live feed to the heater
also has a bad connection somewhere.

I hope don't have 3 "Phases" Titus.
I think you have 
Live,
Neutral,
Earth.

3 phase electricity runs at
nearly 400 volts in Europe,
which is a bit dangerous.


Posted By: Timjburrows
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 13:35
worth checking your RCD and MCB in the fuse box all work,should trip out when the test button is pushed,reset by pushing back up to original position


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 17:19
Originally posted by Charlie Dog Charlie Dog wrote:


I hope don't have 3 "Phases" Titus.
I think you have 
Live,
Neutral,
Earth.

3 phase electricity runs at
nearly 400 volts in Europe,
which is a bit dangerous.

Nearly all houses, flats etc have the phases here in the fatherland.
The oven/hob is normally 3 phase. 1 phase for the oven and 2 phases for the hob.

The shower is a 3 phase 400v unit.


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 16 Dec 19 at 18:34
I am most surprised Titus.
Thank you for your information.

I would definitely get an electrician
to inspect the circuits.


Posted By: Phaeton_Buggy
Date Posted: 29 Dec 19 at 00:18
Is it a commercial premises that have been converted into flats? That's logically the only reason that you would have 3 phase in a domestic situation.


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 29 Dec 19 at 07:55
The flat is in Germany Phaeton.


Posted By: Phaeton_Buggy
Date Posted: 29 Dec 19 at 09:12
Originally posted by Charlie Dog Charlie Dog wrote:

The flat is in Germany Phaeton.
I'll shut up then LOL


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 29 Dec 19 at 09:28
No reason to as I know of Phaeton.
I gave you that information 
to help you talk further.



Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 31 Dec 19 at 06:58
So the fuckwit landlord turned up with a new water heater and fitted it.
It doesn't work.

He then checked the voltage on all three phases, one is significantly lower than the others.

It turns our that the circuit breaker for that phase has a large voltage drop across it.

We are now waiting for an electrician and I'm going to hit him with a rent reduction until it's fixed.


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 31 Dec 19 at 07:39
Oh dear, you are in a bad mood aren't you Titus?


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 31 Dec 19 at 08:02
Just a bit pissed off.

-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 31 Dec 19 at 08:23
Ne'er mind, a couple of beers, some leberkase,
and your world will be coming up roses again.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 07:12
All fixed now.



-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 08:38
Was that a bit of a shock Titus :o)


Posted By: Phaeton_Buggy
Date Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 10:05
Originally posted by Charlie Dog Charlie Dog wrote:

Was that a bit of a shock Titus :o)
Nah it's no longer a current issue


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 10:07
Keep calm and carry on eh?


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 11:09
Glad to see that the brickie standards have not risen - keep it up.

I'm looking forward to a joint bath this weekend.


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 11:54
Originally posted by Titus A Duxass Titus A Duxass wrote:

Glad to see that the brickie standards have not risen - keep it up.

I'm looking forward to a joint bath this weekend.

:o)


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 14 Jan 20 at 08:00
Oh happy days.
We had a great bath together followed by a round of horizontal PT.


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 14 Jan 20 at 08:02
You had a bath with your Landlord :o)

Now, there's real forgiveness.


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 07:45
All very confusing Charlie - there was me thinking a joint bath was enjoying a spliff in the tub watching your favourite duck float about. 


-------------
'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 08:54
Originally posted by Mike Noc Mike Noc wrote:

enjoying a spliff in the tub watching your favourite duck float about. 

Now there's an idea I'll see if he's up for it.............


-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: Charlie Dog
Date Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 08:16
Joints in the bath are so yesterday Yardie.

Hookas do the biz in the bath.

Not to be confused with hookers,
which bring an entirely different
level of peace and tranquility :o)


Posted By: Mike Noc
Date Posted: 23 Jan 20 at 21:02
Get em both in and have a really good night. LOL


-------------
'The Big Slow' LT35 1989 normally aspirated Diesel Horsebox - Gone but not forgotten.



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