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Audi A4 Passat gear box install

Printed From: The Brick-yard
Category: T3 Section
Forum Name: T3 Engine Upgrades
Forum Description: Forum for tuned or alternative engines.
URL: http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71714
Printed Date: 14 Dec 19 at 23:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Audi A4 Passat gear box install
Posted By: VW Nerd
Subject: Audi A4 Passat gear box install
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 12:02
Hi All,

Looking at the amount of interest in the fitting of the Audi A4 and the VW Passat gear box transaxle into the back of any VW T3 vanagon which appeared in Martyn (bus boys thread)
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/charge-cooler-and-new-gearbox_topic62757.html
I felt it was only right to start a new thread on the fitting procedure of this gear box transaxle and afn tdi into the back of a VW T3 Vanagon.

The principle is simple enough.

Take the engine and gear box from either the Audi A4 or the VW Passat TDI with the inline engine and fit the whole lot into the back of any VW T3.

The first problem in doing this is that if you take the engine and gear box from the front of the car and fit it facing in the opposite direction in the back of your VW T3, you will end up with a vehicle with 5 or 6 reverse gears and one forward (which is not very practical)

So what I set about building was an adaptor plate that allows the gear box to be flipped upside down to then give the 5 or 6 forward gears and one reverse. It really is that simple.

The idea then is to use some of the fitting parts used by VW to install the diesel td engine into the VW T3 Vanagon. These parts would be the usual suspects inc, turbo diesel sump, water pipes, dip stick etc etc, but to maintain the flywheel, clutch, starter motor,gearbox input shaft from the donor car, thus saving a huge amount of cash on bespoke parts and rebuilding an inherently weak standard VW T3 transmission.

Up until now I have been using the very reliable Renaul t UN1 trans axle with my TDI conversions. 
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/new-project-1z-tdi-install_topic34781.html
The downside to using this box is its physical size. It is longer than the standard VW transporter gear box and means that you need to cut and modify the cross members under the van if you want to keep the engine in its stock location. The A4 Passat box on the other hand is short enough to fit into the unmodified body of the bus.
Also this gear box has been chosen by VW to work with their AFN (110 bhp) engines and also the PD engines which are rated to 150 bhp. This should give a reasonable amount of reliability with this gear box.

The goal at the end of this project is to supply parts or a complete fitting kit to allow T3 owners to convert their vehicles from either petrol or diesel to TDI.

Also if this is successful I plant to produce a fitting kit to allow the use of the PD engine range into VW T1 split screen, T2 bay window, T3 T3.

I can take no credit for the idea of using the inverted gearbox as Martyn (bus boy) has one in his van which I believe he bought pre modified and extensively tested by a T2 owner. This box has a cut and welded bell housing which although works, might not have the degree of accuracy that is available from my CNC machined adaptor plate.

Every one likes a photoTongue
although I can't see the picture (edit)

So here is the beginning of the project. The engine fitted with the adaptor plate with the inverted gear box attached.

undefined



Came across this useful list for transaxle codes. Might help with people who want to mix and match engine and gear box combo's.



Transaxle CodeCrown wheel & pinionGearRatio
DAE3.88913.36
22.06
31.38
41.04
50.82
DCM4.11113.778
22.176
31.3
41.029
50.838
DCN4.55613.5
22.118
31.3
40.943
50.789
DDU4.11113.778
22.176
31.429
41.029
50.838
DHC4.11113.778
22.176
31.3
41.029
50.838
DHE4.55613.5
22.118
31.3
40.943
50.789
DHF3.713.5
21.944
31.226
40.838
50.683
DHL3.88913.5
21.944
31.226
40.838
50.683
DHN3.88913.5
21.944
31.3
41.029
50.838
DHW3.713.5
22.118
31.3
41.029
50.838
DHY3.713.5
21.944
31.3
40.943
50.789
DHZ4.11113.778
22.176
31.429
41.029
50.838
DJA4.11113.778
22.176
31.429
41.091
50.889
DRE3.88913.5
21.944
31.3
41.029
50.838
DYB3.55613.5
21.944
31.222
40.875
50.686
DUK3.55613.5
21.944
31.222
40.875
50.686
DVP4.11113.778
22.118
31.3
40.943
50.789
DVS3.88913.5
21.944
31.226
40.838
50.683
DVT3.88913.5
21.944
31.3
41.029
50.838
DVX3.713.5
22.118
31.3
41.029
50.838
DVZ3.713.5
21.944
31.3
40.943
50.789
DWA4.11113.778
22.176
31.429
41.029
50.838
DWB4.11113.778
22.176
31.429
41.091
50.889
DWD3.88913.5
21.944
31.3
40.943
50.838
DWF4.11113.778
22.176
31.3
41.029
50.838
DWG4.55613.5
22.118
31.3
40.943
50.789
EAA3.87513.5
21.944
31.3
41.029
50.816
EAB3.87513.5
21.944
31.226
40.838
50.683
EAC3.87513.5
21.944
31.3
41.029
50.838
EEN3.713.5
21.944
31.226
40.838
50.683
EHV3.713.778
22.176
31.429
41.029
50.838
EMV3.87513.778
22.176
31.429
41.029
50.838
EZG3.713.778
22.16
31.429
41.029
50.838
FCB3.87513.778
22.176
31.429
41.029
50.838


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van



Replies:
Posted By: mrhutch
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 12:12
Clap

superb Tim, I'm having one off you when you're ready mate


-------------
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel


Posted By: Titus A Duxass
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 12:32
Very interesting, will this, or does this, work with 2E/AGG/ADY petrol motors?

It would be a good alternative gearbox for those who have already "modernised" their T3. 

-------------
Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E


Posted By: miilor
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 13:25

hi i am looking at this option, how many degrees the motor is tilted from the t3? 50 º or 52 º



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siempre estas conmigo


Posted By: jack carlton
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 16:25
sooo would this work with any 2 wheel drive a4/passat combo?
petrol variants always seem a whole lot cheaper.


Posted By: syncroandy
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 20:24
Tim, great to see the investment being put into providing the T3 community with another option for keeping our vans on the road.

Is this for i4 @ ~50 degrees only ? It'd be great to have the option of i5/v6 motors as well. Also, I think the later TDI lend themselves more to 15 degree installs, what with their different turbo's, sumps and engine bracket tappings. TBH with the scarcity of T3 TD bits (in some parts anyway) there's an argument for doing even earlier i4's at 15 degrees.

Edit: What are the starter/FW options ? I guess with the 5sp starter a notch may be needed as the original pocket is on the other side ? Perhaps the 6sp starter lacking a nose avoids making a notch ?


-------------
'90 252 EJ25
'90 246 AFN

http://syncrosport.com" rel="nofollow - Syncrosport
Volkswagen Transporter, reloaded.


Posted By: mcgill5
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 21:22
want me to start collecting the gearboxes for you? given loads of them away when i strip passats etc for the engines? got an A4 out the back,its a start if you need it? (free) cheers mcgill


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 15 Feb 12 at 22:54
The plan for the moment is to put together the in line 4 over at 50 degrees.

The engine to gear box issue is now sorted and I now need to turn my attention toward building the engine and gear box mounts and sorting out the gear linkage.

As for the 5 and 6 cylinder models this should be straight forward. Just a case of rotating the fitting holes 180 degrees. 

Although the PD in line 4 cylinder uses a different set of holes to the 5 and 6 cylinder the arrangement with rotating 180 will be the same. Just need to check which gear box fitting holes clash with engine fitting holes. Making the plate will be a piece of cake.




-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: mazz
Date Posted: 20 Feb 12 at 22:32

keep talking guys im off to collect more Passat/A4 gearboxes :-)



-------------
MV Engineering-TDi conversion specialist
07989593569-01952 581818
mveservices@hotmail.co.uk


Posted By: zyclamvw
Date Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 18:29
Hi
How's this progressing?
Any joy with the linkage? Asking as am really interested in this as an option for my bus
Ta

-------------
door hinge pin mod....... whos up for doing it then?


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 16 Apr 12 at 09:23
I am installing the package into a bus while we speak and should be doing my first install in a few weeks for a customer with his AFN tdi conversion. I'll let you know how I get on.

Tim.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: Racebiz
Date Posted: 03 May 12 at 21:54
Hi Tim,

Any updates on the conversion - I'm sure there are plenty of us on here keen to know how progress is going.

cheers


-------------
98 T3 PD130 Viking Top
A4 1.9 TDI
Classic RangeRover 3.9 EFI


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 04 May 12 at 09:27
As the job involves all of the usual work involved in a TDI conversion, I will have to do that part of the install before I can continue with the rest of the conversion. I have been collecting parts and prototyping the gear linkage and engine mountings.

-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: Racebiz
Date Posted: 04 May 12 at 21:16
Cheers for that Tim, I look forward to your next update and hopefully some pics as well.

-------------
98 T3 PD130 Viking Top
A4 1.9 TDI
Classic RangeRover 3.9 EFI


Posted By: andy1300gt
Date Posted: 05 May 12 at 00:05
Arghh!

-------------
It's all rust in the end....

89 T3 Doka - AFN TDI
76 XJC 4.2 Daimler - Gone!
72 Austin 1300


Posted By: BUS.BOY
Date Posted: 07 May 12 at 15:54
Originally posted by andy1300gt andy1300gt wrote:

Arghh!


You just hit your finger with a hammer ?

-------------
************bristol t3 racers************


Posted By: mrhutch
Date Posted: 07 May 12 at 16:19
Originally posted by BUS.BOY BUS.BOY wrote:

 
You just hit your finger with a hammer ?

don't be silly mart, he's from bristol like you lot..  more thumbs than fingers down there..


-------------
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel


Posted By: andy1300gt
Date Posted: 07 May 12 at 21:03
It's a long story. Lets just say I was just one step behind the curve. 

-------------
It's all rust in the end....

89 T3 Doka - AFN TDI
76 XJC 4.2 Daimler - Gone!
72 Austin 1300


Posted By: mrhutch
Date Posted: 07 May 12 at 21:22
c'mon spill!!

2-1 says you got 5 reverse and 1 forward gear! 


-------------
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel


Posted By: andy1300gt
Date Posted: 07 May 12 at 21:30
I have just spent a fair few ££ getting a very good convestion in me van. Now there is a new way. Bah!

-------------
It's all rust in the end....

89 T3 Doka - AFN TDI
76 XJC 4.2 Daimler - Gone!
72 Austin 1300


Posted By: bouldster
Date Posted: 14 May 12 at 21:04
fantastic tim!cant wait to see how you do im sure it will be superb after experiencing your brake upgrades first hand cheers phil


Posted By: Camping Bazz
Date Posted: 14 May 12 at 23:11
How easy would this box conversion be if it bolted up to an AAZ, im thinking that you would have to lower the engine to accommodate the high driveshaft angle.
Would love a better ratio box for my AAZ Tongue


Posted By: zyclamvw
Date Posted: 30 May 12 at 08:55
Hi
Any news on the progress of the kit?
I'm hanging on with baited breath!
Ta

-------------
door hinge pin mod....... whos up for doing it then?


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 30 May 12 at 09:18
Thanks for the interest. I am currently fitting an AFN (110bhp) diesel engine into a bus with the flipped gear box conversion. During the install I will be perfecting some of the fitting hardware. I hope to have the project finished in 1 month.

This gear box option will also work with AAZ with the correct flywheel and clutch from the donor car.




-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: Iceworx
Date Posted: 30 May 12 at 20:53
I'm looking forward to these being available :)

-------------
T5 130 LWB 2.5 TDi - Becoming a camper
http://www.realgraffix.blogspot.co.uk/" rel="nofollow - T5 Camper Build Blog


Posted By: Racebiz
Date Posted: 30 May 12 at 21:27
Hi Tim

Glad to hear things are still progressing, are you still going to be making a plate available for a 15 deg install as well as the normal 50 deg.

cheers


-------------
98 T3 PD130 Viking Top
A4 1.9 TDI
Classic RangeRover 3.9 EFI


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 30 May 12 at 21:41
I have had plates made for 15 deg and 50. The plus side to using the 50 degree is that you can use a lot of std T3 diesel parts for the install, all tried and tested.

With the 15 deg, it will involve making new mounts for engine, an new exhaust from turbo to back box. fittings for back box etc. Not impossible, but just extra work.

Also I think that there is some comfort in using std off the shelf vw parts instead of custom made one offs. If you have to replace a broken off the shelf item, that's easy. If you have to replace a custom made part, that's an ass, when you are a long way from home and maybe don't speak the language.




-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: jockcampbell
Date Posted: 31 May 12 at 12:15
hi tim,


Im looking forward to fitting a flipped A4 gearbox into my baywindow which i fitted with an AFN motor 18 months ago,done 6000 miles mated up to a T3 5 speed with no troubles but really want low revs while cruising around the 65 -75 mph.
Will need a 15 degree plate ...... what else will i need ...drive shaft adapters...gear shift .... etc
Your help is really appreciated
ps....what overall length is the audi gearbox ?


                         Dave


Posted By: Racebiz
Date Posted: 31 May 12 at 22:13
Appreciate where you are coming from Tim ref using std parts, it is a strong argument, I was also looking at it from the other angle as regards to fitting the engine as it is std and leaving the sump, dipstick, turbo drain hose etc as is - all be it I will have to doctor the engine lid.

please keep us all posted as you get nearer completion.


-------------
98 T3 PD130 Viking Top
A4 1.9 TDI
Classic RangeRover 3.9 EFI


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 01 Jun 12 at 08:41
The Audi box is 24 inches or 61cm long (overall length) How does this compare to the space available in a bay window of even a split.

-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: jockcampbell
Date Posted: 01 Jun 12 at 08:56
Thats about 3" shorter than a standard 1600 air cooled gearbox......good news should be plenty of room ,is a 6 speed A4 box also 24" ?


Posted By: 16vmini
Date Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 08:00
this is all really interesting ...

i assume another option would be to get a new crown wheel/pinion machined like people have done with scooby box's ? so again it reverse's everything .. but would keep gearbox same position ?

but then you would be stuck with engine in same vertical position as in std passat ? can it be lowered enough to clear rear hatch ?

watching with interest.

Matt


-------------
Westy Diary : http://www.teamorchard.co.uk   /   http://www.16vmini.co.uk


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 12 Jun 12 at 13:55
There is no space in the gear box to flip the diff over to the other side.

I think that there is space for 15deg with the engine sat a little lower. Just means that you need to make up new exhaust engine cradle and exhaust fitting system. There may be some hose pipe fitting issues as well.

All can be over come with time and cash.



-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: 16vmini
Date Posted: 12 Jun 12 at 14:01
aye , ok .. if you are going to lean it , you might as well really lean it :) 

Matt


-------------
Westy Diary : http://www.teamorchard.co.uk   /   http://www.16vmini.co.uk


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 12 Jun 12 at 14:24
Some more progress photos.


The engine is now fitted although the front gearbox mount is being up graded with the gear linkage that puts all gears into the right order at the stick.


Drive shafts fitted

New engine mount made for right hand side of engine block (the std alloy item does not fit the In line AFN engine block.

Std alloy mount fitted to the left side (near side) of the engine block.


...


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: booted
Date Posted: 12 Jun 12 at 16:42
cant see the pictures


Posted By: max and caddy
Date Posted: 12 Jun 12 at 17:47
i can...


Posted By: Dyno Soar
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 12:52
Why have all the pictures been deleted?

I think I am going to do this conversion on my SVX powered Bus.



Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 13:06
The pictures have not been deleted.
Is there any moderators that can sort this out?

Tim.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: mrhutch
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 13:11
pics showing for me Tim.

-------------
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 13:15
Very strange. They came up on the preview but I can NOT see them on the post.

Is this a mac related problem or am I missing something obvious?

Tim.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: BOBBER
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 13:41
Pics visible hereWink


Posted By: monsho
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 14:05
Hmmm, I can see them and I'm on Mac, Chrome, Safari and Firefox all ok...

Really dont know what the issue could be...


Posted By: BUS.BOY
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 14:15
 i can see the picture's ok from work and our I.T is mega secure

-------------
************bristol t3 racers************


Posted By: booted
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 14:52
I cant see them on my phone but can on my pc


Posted By: chickenkoop
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 21:33
yep I can see them, Wink

-------------
98, karmann Colorado,
89, T3 westy california
Brickin it in Cov.


Posted By: ELVIS
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 21:36
fuck, you seen the size of the black fellas cock? her arse is gonna be sore!

-------------
Www.justgiving.com/ELVIS-SUMMERS



Posted By: timmythedog
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 22:15
Black fellow? Oh, I thought it was Tim half way through an engine swap with a torque wrench in his hand!Smile, Either way, you're right, that is going to hurt.

-------------
Syncro doka td
T4 Multivan Generation, 151
89 Caravelle Exclusive 2.1
Caravelle GL AFN tdi
53 plate T4 Panel.888 special x factor.
88 DG Panel(uncut)
calypso Atlantic pop.


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 13 Jun 12 at 22:19
Attempting to post another picture to see if it show on line.



-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: nic
Date Posted: 14 Jun 12 at 08:19
how weird - I could see them fine, now all I can see is the picture's in the first and last post !

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http://www.fosterandday.co.uk


Posted By: monsho
Date Posted: 14 Jun 12 at 12:34
I kinda think its something to do with Photobucket and linking externally...

Tim what happens if you upload directly to here?


Posted By: andy1300gt
Date Posted: 14 Jun 12 at 13:16
I can see em all!

-------------
It's all rust in the end....

89 T3 Doka - AFN TDI
76 XJC 4.2 Daimler - Gone!
72 Austin 1300


Posted By: Dyno Soar
Date Posted: 15 Jun 12 at 10:15
Really sorry guys but this must related to my iPhone.  I can't  see the pics on my phone or when I use my phone a router for my laptop.

I can see them all again now. 
Cheers

Tim:  There are three of us who are looking to get this kit off of you when you are done.  We all also have your PAS kit too.  Can't wait as I know we'll get more use out of the Bus when its a tad more economical.


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 15 Jun 12 at 13:19

Interesting point about mobile phone and viewing pictures.

I use a dongle with phone sim card for my internet connection, could this be the cause of the lack of images available to view.

I'll check the web site from my phone to confirm.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: booted
Date Posted: 15 Jun 12 at 23:08
I can see them all on my phone now
weird


Posted By: zyclamvw
Date Posted: 20 Jun 12 at 09:09
Hi
Can you put me down for one of these kits? Are they going to be only for the pd engine and box? As I have a nice 1z waiting to go in , would I need a later box, or an Audi or passat box to match up with the 1z?
Do you have a rough idea what the kit is going to cost yet?




-------------
door hinge pin mod....... whos up for doing it then?


Posted By: T3Algarve
Date Posted: 20 Jun 12 at 16:02
Me too.
going to attempt mine in about 4 months time, and would lurve an adaptor plate for an A4 with an AHU lump
Thanks


-------------
T4 Then T3. Am I backwards?


Posted By: T3 Nev
Date Posted: 20 Jun 12 at 21:42
Would love to do a Audi gearbox job on my SA as it's screaming it's head off at 4000 rpm, cruising at 75mph (120kph) which causes a severe drinking problem 20 miles/gal if I'am lucky! Would a Audi 90 2.3 5 cyl gearbox work with your magic plate set up?


Posted By: T3Panel
Date Posted: 20 Jun 12 at 22:07
Count me in. Desperately in need of a decent solution for my GTI conversion. Would also be interested in a solution that allows use of the A4 gearbox with the 1.8T engine from the A4 at 15 degrees as well.

Oh, and I can see all your pics

-------------
1987 T3 Panel 2.0 T3i!
1990 T3 Atlantic
1.8T Conversion sat on an engine stand waiting for spare time.


Posted By: Dan Dub
Date Posted: 28 Jun 12 at 15:57
I'm following this with interest, any more development?


Posted By: silverbullet
Date Posted: 28 Jun 12 at 16:49
Originally posted by T3 Nev T3 Nev wrote:

Would love to do a Audi gearbox job on my SA as it's screaming it's head off at 4000 rpm, cruising at 75mph (120kph) which causes a severe drinking problem 20 miles/gal if I'am lucky! Would a Audi 90 2.3 5 cyl gearbox work with your magic plate set up?
Why not recon the trans with a 7/29 cw/p set for a 10% gearing increase Nev? My 2.6 does 75 at 3800 and sounds sweet, returned about 26 mpg using 98 RON on the Autobahns and Autoroutes even on the standard 7/32 cw/p. But that was with fresh 205/65/15C tyres so probably a lot less rolling resistance than with wider tyres?


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Have I missed anything?


Posted By: T3 Nev
Date Posted: 28 Jun 12 at 17:50
Have thought about going that route but with our power up mods afraid standard box is'nt going to copeWink


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 28 Jun 12 at 19:07
Today I finished the gear box front mount and the gear linkage.
I can now select all gears from the cab via a std 5 speed gear stick.

I am looking at getting the mount and gear linkage parts laser cut. Once this is done I will have a better idea on cost.

Thanks all for your interest.

Tim.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: redi
Date Posted: 29 Jun 12 at 00:22
That's really nice. I'm also very interrested about swapping passat gearbox to my van.
They're easy to get and ratios are so much better. I think it's way cheaper than to buy 5 speed T3 gearbox, then buy new diff, bearings and maybe longer 5th gear. Then get someone to fit them into your gearbox
I'm running aaz with 1.6d gearbox and my top speed is 100kmh (62mph) and the engine just doesn't take any more revs.


Posted By: Iceworx
Date Posted: 29 Jun 12 at 18:20
Im the same Redi.

Soon as Tim finishes this kit off, i'll be taking one :)


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T5 130 LWB 2.5 TDi - Becoming a camper
http://www.realgraffix.blogspot.co.uk/" rel="nofollow - T5 Camper Build Blog


Posted By: redi
Date Posted: 30 Jun 12 at 00:05
I think the only problem is that my van is so low that I may have to cut the frame a bit with passat/audi gearbox to fit the drive shafts.

How much higher the axles really are with this mod?


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 07 Jul 12 at 14:32
Almost there.

A few small items to sort out before the engine goes in for the last time.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/christinasurf/7520287414/" rel="nofollow">



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Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 07 Jul 12 at 14:38
Originally posted by redi redi wrote:

I think the only problem is that my van is so low that I may have to cut the frame a bit with passat/audi gearbox to fit the drive shafts.

How much higher the axles really are with this mod?

I guess that it will be more accurate for me to measure down from the boot floor to give you a measurement. As not all vans will be the same height from the ground.

I need to get the engine and gearbox back into the bus before I can do this.

.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: jc_geddes
Date Posted: 07 Jul 12 at 18:31
Come on Tim can we have more pictures???

Hows the gearshift? and the pattern you have ended up with?


Posted By: ronnus
Date Posted: 08 Jul 12 at 22:06
Hello Tim,
 
I follow jour post with a lot of interrest.
I have a AFN of a seat ibiza with a 220 mm Luke clutch, wil this configuration also fit the audi/passat gearbox or do i need a 228 mm clutch?
 
regards
ron vegter
 
the netherlands


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 08:43
Originally posted by ronnus ronnus wrote:

Hello Tim,
 
I follow jour post with a lot of interrest.
I have a AFN of a seat ibiza with a 220 mm Luke clutch, wil this configuration also fit the audi/passat gearbox or do i need a 228 mm clutch?
 
regards
ron vegter
 
the netherlands

You may need to check that the starter ring gear is fitted on the engine block side of the fly wheel and not on the clutch cover side.

Best option is to use the Passat clutch and flywheel that belong with this gear box.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 08:52
Originally posted by jc_geddes jc_geddes wrote:

Hows the gearshift? and the pattern you have ended up with?

The gear shift is untested on the road so far, so time will tell.

Shift pattern

1 3 5
2 4 R

as per the Audi A4 gear box.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: VWlewis
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 09:54
Tim - An interesting project as many have already said!  I don't want to pour cold "oil" on your ideas but I was wondering when you "invert" the gearbox, how do you ensure the oil flow around the gears is maintained as it is designed to get the oil to the right places when the gearbox is in the normal position?

Lewis


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Dr. T15 - Took test in a T2, drove a T1, T4, T5 and now run a T3 - and I am not Tee'd off


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 19:14
Originally posted by VWlewis VWlewis wrote:

Tim - An interesting project as many have already said!  I don't want to pour cold "oil" on your ideas but I was wondering when you "invert" the gearbox, how do you ensure the oil flow around the gears is maintained as it is designed to get the oil to the right places when the gearbox is in the normal position?

Lewis

The practice of running the gear box upside down is not my idea and it has been done before without gearbox issues.

As all gears are splash fed from the shafts as they rotate in a bath of oil, there is no reason that the oil will not be able to supply lubrication to all areas in need.




-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: VWlewis
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 19:26
OK Tim - I know some cars use positive pumped lubrication but I bow to your experience with these gearboxes. Star   However isn't there a breather that needs to be relocated as this is usually at the top of the gearbox?

PS - not trying to be a know all here or catch you out! LOL I have worked on gearbox design so just wanted to check a few things to make sure I understand how this works (turning a gearbox upside down is not the usual thing done in the automotive world!!


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Dr. T15 - Took test in a T2, drove a T1, T4, T5 and now run a T3 - and I am not Tee'd off


Posted By: ELVIS
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 19:38
Originally posted by VWlewis VWlewis wrote:

Tim - An interesting project as many have already said!  I don't want to pour cold "oil" on your ideas but I was wondering when you "invert" the gearbox, how do you ensure the oil flow around the gears is maintained as it is designed to get the oil to the right places when the gearbox is in the normal position?

Lewis

Original Quattro boxes were OE ones fitted upside down.




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Www.justgiving.com/ELVIS-SUMMERS



Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 22:03
VW beetle boxes have been ran upside down on race cars for years.

You are right there is a breather which is now at the bottom of the box and a new one is added to the new top of the box.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: BUS.BOY
Date Posted: 12 Jul 12 at 00:02
Here's a few pic's of my box fitted last year

The black rubber hose you see on the box was the breather but is now blocked off









the pipe you see in this below picture is the breather   It use to be the drain bung but is now on the top





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************bristol t3 racers************


Posted By: VWlewis
Date Posted: 12 Jul 12 at 12:53
Nice job and it answered my other question about how you drain the oil in future!Smile

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Dr. T15 - Took test in a T2, drove a T1, T4, T5 and now run a T3 - and I am not Tee'd off


Posted By: passatpd130
Date Posted: 12 Jul 12 at 23:21
vw say the 6spd box is sealed for life no need to change the oil lol


Posted By: VWlewis
Date Posted: 13 Jul 12 at 08:11
Originally posted by passatpd130 passatpd130 wrote:

vw say the 6spd box is sealed for life no need to change the oil lol


Whose life?  our VeeDubs go on and on and on and on LOL


-------------
Dr. T15 - Took test in a T2, drove a T1, T4, T5 and now run a T3 - and I am not Tee'd off


Posted By: mrhutch
Date Posted: 13 Jul 12 at 18:35
Anyone got any knowledge about auto transmissions?  Could an auto box be flipped in the same way?

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T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel


Posted By: ronnus
Date Posted: 13 Jul 12 at 20:59
Tim,
 
Thanks for the answer om my question about the Seat AFN clutch. The starter ring is on the wrong site of the clutch, at the gearbox site. So if i go for this project i need another clutch. I think the most tdi engines of the golf style havethis problem.
Maybe there is another small problem, the flywheel of the current clutch is fitted with 6 bolts to the crankshaft, what i have seen is that a passat clutch has 8 or 10 bolts. So they will not fit, evenso the size is a passat clutch is 240 mm.
Are there suitable clutches with 6 boltholes and size 240 mm to fit the upsitedown gearbox?
 
regards ron


Posted By: ..lee..
Date Posted: 13 Jul 12 at 22:26
@ hutch. I'm sure I've read somewhere that the auto boxes don't need flipping as the have drop gears in the back of th box that can be swapped about to revers the action of the box.

This has crossed my mind as a possible syncro option as the auto box may be a substitute for the g gear

Lee

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it`s a big round cage but there`s too many animals in it for my liking.to address this ring lee on 07977 765818.


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 08:56
Originally posted by ronnus ronnus wrote:

Tim,
 
Maybe there is another small problem, the flywheel of the current clutch is fitted with 6 bolts to the crankshaft, what i have seen is that a passat clutch has 8 or 10 bolts.

Are there suitable clutches with 6 boltholes and size 240 mm to fit the upsitedown gearbox?
 


All of the Passat / Audi A4 clutches from the AFN (110hp) engine range have the 6 bolt fixing.

If you source your engine and gear box from the same car then you don't need to worry about swapping to the correct style.

All transverse engines will have the ring gear on the wrong end of the fly wheel,

So go with a fly wheel from the inline gear box for the correct starter ring gear position.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: jc_geddes
Date Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 09:17
Tim,  
you finished the first one yet?  
Have you driven it?
Is the gear change cable or rod?

The shift pattern - I am assuming from you like picture that the H is the correct way around, and not upside down or back to front.

Progress report please.


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 14 Jul 12 at 11:21
Originally posted by jc_geddes jc_geddes wrote:

Tim,  
you finished the first one yet?  
Have you driven it?
Is the gear change cable or rod?

The shift pattern - I am assuming from you like picture that the H is the correct way around, and not upside down or back to front.

Progress report please.

Not finished yet

Not driven it yet

Gear change rod type

All gears as per the Audi. The correct way around.




-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: youthy giblets
Date Posted: 15 Jul 12 at 21:49
glad to see someones actually put this idea into use on a T3, famous phil was threatening to do this about 18months ago but never got round to doing so, at the time we decided that with an AFN the 5 speed boxes would be geared well for a T3 but i still think a 130tdi will pull a 6speed ok in a tin top t3. keep up the good work Jon


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 22:53
Drove the bus today!Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.
On the hole a good drive for a first outing.
Need to make the oil stay in the gear box. I guess that my breather hole is to big.Cry
Plus the gear lever moves to far in my opinion from left and right, so some fine tuning needed there tomorrow.Geek

DVX code gear box with 185 14 tyres gives 77mph @ 3000 and 90mph @ 3500.
At the bottom end 1st gear 1000rpm=6mph.

Tim.


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: T3Panel
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 23:27
Originally posted by VW Nerd VW Nerd wrote:


DVX code gear box with 185 14 tyres gives 77mph @ 3000 and 90mph @ 3500.
At the bottom end 1st gear 1000rpm=6mph.

Tim.




-------------
1987 T3 Panel 2.0 T3i!
1990 T3 Atlantic
1.8T Conversion sat on an engine stand waiting for spare time.


Posted By: Dyno Soar
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 23:35
Nice work Tim.





Posted By: Racebiz
Date Posted: 19 Jul 12 at 00:20
Good to see its nearly there Tim Smile

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98 T3 PD130 Viking Top
A4 1.9 TDI
Classic RangeRover 3.9 EFI


Posted By: youthy giblets
Date Posted: 20 Jul 12 at 21:30
Originally posted by VW Nerd VW Nerd wrote:

Drove the bus today!Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.<!-- bmi_SafeAddOnload(bmi_load,"bmi_orig_img",1);//-->
On the hole a good drive for a first outing.
Need to make the oil stay in the gear box. I guess that my breather hole is to big.Cry
Plus the gear lever moves to far in my opinion from left and right, so some fine tuning needed there tomorrow.Geek

DVX code gear box with 185 14 tyres gives 77mph @ 3000 and 90mph @ 3500.
At the bottom end 1st gear 1000rpm=6mph.


Where did u locate your breather mate? I'm guessing it wasn't above the diff? Also have you increased the amount of oil in the gearbox, we wondered if the oil level needed to be higher once the box is flipped, our thinking was that the height of the diffs changed once the box was flipped. Lots of oil flying round in there at motorway speeds tho I guess, well done il be watching with interest
Tim.


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 20 Jul 12 at 22:02
All done and working well. New gear box breather and modified gear linkage now fitted.
My customer is collecting his bus tomorrow, with plans for quite a road trip.
Maybe he will be along soon with some feed back, once he has clocked up some miles.   

-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: fufflenarnia
Date Posted: 21 Jul 12 at 08:01
That's great news Tim.

Are you confident enough to put together and start selling a kit?

What is your time scale? - it would be great to have one off you for a winter project - I can add it to my list of to do's!

I have an agg engine from a golf with a jx flywheel - i am intreagued as to what starter motor I would need?


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 21 Jul 12 at 08:57
I don't know what fly wheel types are fitted to the petrol engine, but with the diesel you a choice of a single or dual mass flywheel. I suggest that you get one of these and a starter from the Audi A4 or Passat.



-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: youthy giblets
Date Posted: 21 Jul 12 at 23:43
good work tim, nice to no there will soon be another t3 gearbox option available. Did you fill with more oil than standard a4/passat amount then? Driveshaft flanges appear to be standard T3 units, i guess you made a hybrid by machining and welding the A4 and T3 flanges together? When phil and i looked at doing this it was an easier solution than adaptor plates but we questioned the reliability of doing it that way. never stripped the t3 box an further to see if any of the deeper internal components (drive flange to diff) were suitable to use.....think we started on the Gp and forgot all about it. I expect the van was a pleasure to drive with a modern feeling smooth gearbox?


Posted By: VW Nerd
Date Posted: 22 Jul 12 at 09:28
Originally posted by youthy giblets youthy giblets wrote:

good work tim, nice to no there will soon be another t3 gearbox option available.

Did you fill with more oil than standard a4/passat amount then?Filled to the oil level bung

Driveshaft flanges appear to be standard T3 units, Yes std T3

i guess you made a hybrid by machining and welding the A4 and T3 flanges together? Nope std

When phil and i looked at doing this it was an easier solution than adaptor plates but we questioned the reliability of doing it that way. never stripped the t3 box an further to see if any of the deeper internal components (drive flange to diff) were suitable to use.....think we started on the Gp and forgot all about it.

I expect the van was a pleasure to drive with a modern feeling smooth gearbox?I have been spoiled with driving my TDI bus with UN1 gear box for the last 2 years, but I must say to go from JX 1.6 turbo diesel and 3H gear box to the Audi A4 AFN 1.9TDI (110bhp) with a matched gearbox certainly transformed the bus.
Plenty of power and long gear ratios in the gear box to match. All this from an MOT failure AUDI A4 bought for not much money. 


-------------
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

AFN TDI Panel Van


Posted By: youthy giblets
Date Posted: 22 Jul 12 at 09:37
Originally posted by BUS.BOY BUS.BOY wrote:

Here's a few pic's of my box fitted last year

The black rubber hose you see on the box was the breather but is now blocked off






Just out of interest how many miles have you covered on this box and have u had any problems

the pipe you see in this below picture is the breather   It use to be the drain bung but is now on the top





Posted By: youthy giblets
Date Posted: 22 Jul 12 at 19:30
Tim just out of interest is the gearbox you are using the same as the passat one we looked at flipping, as when i removed the drive flanges from the passat box it appeared to be a complete splined shaft (that fiits into diff) with the drive flange on the opposite end. If so have you had to fabricate a new splined shaft to link the diff to the T3 drive flange or have you again used T3 or off the shelf vw parts??
Be nice to have such a conversion that uses all off the shelf vag parts as you said earlier, if something gives abroad it can be a pain in the arseespecially if you have to try and get something fabricated



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