Looking at the amount of interest in the fitting of the Audi A4 and the VW Passat gear box transaxle into the back of any VW T3 vanagon which appeared in Martyn (bus boys thread)

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/charge-cooler-and-new-gearbox_topic62757.html

I felt it was only right to start a new thread on the fitting procedure of this gear box transaxle and afn tdi into the back of a VW T3 Vanagon.

The principle is simple enough.

Take the engine and gear box from either the Audi A4 or the VW Passat TDI with the inline engine and fit the whole lot into the back of any VW T3.

The first problem in doing this is that if you take the engine and gear box from the front of the car and fit it facing in the opposite direction in the back of your VW T3, you will end up with a vehicle with 5 or 6 reverse gears and one forward (which is not very practical)

So what I set about building was an adaptor plate that allows the gear box to be flipped upside down to then give the 5 or 6 forward gears and one reverse. It really is that simple.

The idea then is to use some of the fitting parts used by VW to install the diesel td engine into the VW T3 Vanagon. These parts would be the usual suspects inc, turbo diesel sump, water pipes, dip stick etc etc, but to maintain the flywheel, clutch, starter motor,gearbox input shaft from the donor car, thus saving a huge amount of cash on bespoke parts and rebuilding an inherently weak standard VW T3 transmission.

Up until now I have been using the very reliable Renaul t UN1 trans axle with my TDI conversions. 

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/new-project-1z-tdi-install_topic34781.html

The downside to using this box is its physical size. It is longer than the standard VW transporter gear box and means that you need to cut and modify the cross members under the van if you want to keep the engine in its stock location. The A4 Passat box on the other hand is short enough to fit into the unmodified body of the bus.

Also this gear box has been chosen by VW to work with their AFN (110 bhp) engines and also the PD engines which are rated to 150 bhp. This should give a reasonable amount of reliability with this gear box.

The goal at the end of this project is to supply parts or a complete fitting kit to allow T3 owners to convert their vehicles from either petrol or diesel to TDI.

Also if this is successful I plant to produce a fitting kit to allow the use of the PD engine range into VW T1 split screen, T2 bay window, T3 T3.

I can take no credit for the idea of using the inverted gearbox as Martyn (bus boy) has one in his van which I believe he bought pre modified and extensively tested by a T2 owner. This box has a cut and welded bell housing which although works, might not have the degree of accuracy that is available from my CNC machined adaptor plate.

Every one likes a photo

although I can't see the picture (edit)

So here is the beginning of the project. The engine fitted with the adaptor plate with the inverted gear box attached.

superb Tim, I'm having one off you when you're ready mate

The engine to gear box issue is now sorted and I now need to turn my attention toward building the engine and gear box mounts and sorting out the gear linkage.

Tim.

don't be silly mart, he's from bristol like you lot..  more thumbs than fingers down there..

2-1 says you got 5 reverse and 1 forward gear! 

This gear box option will also work with AAZ with the correct flywheel and clutch from the donor car.

With the 15 deg, it will involve making new mounts for engine, an new exhaust from turbo to back box. fittings for back box etc. Not impossible, but just extra work.

Also I think that there is some comfort in using std off the shelf vw parts instead of custom made one offs. If you have to replace a broken off the shelf item, that's easy. If you have to replace a custom made part, that's an ass, when you are a long way from home and maybe don't speak the language.

i assume another option would be to get a new crown wheel/pinion machined like people have done with scooby box's ? so again it reverse's everything .. but would keep gearbox same position ?

but then you would be stuck with engine in same vertical position as in std passat ? can it be lowered enough to clear rear hatch ?

watching with interest.

Matt

I think that there is space for 15deg with the engine sat a little lower. Just means that you need to make up new exhaust engine cradle and exhaust fitting system. There may be some hose pipe fitting issues as well.

All can be over come with time and cash.

Matt

Is there any moderators that can sort this out?

Tim.

Tim.

Really dont know what the issue could be...

Tim what happens if you upload directly to here?

I use a dongle with phone sim card for my internet connection, could this be the cause of the lack of images available to view.

I'll check the web site from my phone to confirm.

Why not recon the trans with a 7/29 cw/p set for a 10% gearing increase Nev? My 2.6 does 75 at 3800 and sounds sweet, returned about 26 mpg using 98 RON on the Autobahns and Autoroutes even on the standard 7/32 cw/p. But that was with fresh 205/65/15C tyres so probably a lot less rolling resistance than with wider tyres?

I can now select all gears from the cab via a std 5 speed gear stick.

I am looking at getting the mount and gear linkage parts laser cut. Once this is done I will have a better idea on cost.

Thanks all for your interest.

Tim.

Soon as Tim finishes this kit off, i'll be taking one :)

A few small items to sort out before the engine goes in for the last time.

I guess that it will be more accurate for me to measure down from the boot floor to give you a measurement. As not all vans will be the same height from the ground.

I need to get the engine and gearbox back into the bus before I can do this.

.

Hows the gearshift? and the pattern you have ended up with?

 

I follow jour post with a lot of interrest.

I have a AFN of a seat ibiza with a 220 mm Luke clutch, wil this configuration also fit the audi/passat gearbox or do i need a 228 mm clutch?

 

regards

ron vegter

 

the netherlands

You may need to check that the starter ring gear is fitted on the engine block side of the fly wheel and not on the clutch cover side.

Best option is to use the Passat clutch and flywheel that belong with this gear box.

The gear shift is untested on the road so far, so time will tell.

Shift pattern

1 3 5

2 4 R

as per the Audi A4 gear box.

The practice of running the gear box upside down is not my idea and it has been done before without gearbox issues.

As all gears are splash fed from the shafts as they rotate in a bath of oil, there is no reason that the oil will not be able to supply lubrication to all areas in need.

Original Quattro boxes were OE ones fitted upside down.

You are right there is a breather which is now at the bottom of the box and a new one is added to the new top of the box.

 

Thanks for the answer om my question about the Seat AFN clutch. The starter ring is on the wrong site of the clutch, at the gearbox site. So if i go for this project i need another clutch. I think the most tdi engines of the golf style havethis problem.

Maybe there is another small problem, the flywheel of the current clutch is fitted with 6 bolts to the crankshaft, what i have seen is that a passat clutch has 8 or 10 bolts. So they will not fit, evenso the size is a passat clutch is 240 mm.

Are there suitable clutches with 6 boltholes and size 240 mm to fit the upsitedown gearbox?

 

regards ron

All of the Passat / Audi A4 clutches from the AFN (110hp) engine range have the 6 bolt fixing.

If you source your engine and gear box from the same car then you don't need to worry about swapping to the correct style.

All transverse engines will have the ring gear on the wrong end of the fly wheel,

So go with a fly wheel from the inline gear box for the correct starter ring gear position.

you finished the first one yet?  

Is the gear change cable or rod?

The shift pattern - I am assuming from you like picture that the H is the correct way around, and not upside down or back to front.

Progress report please.

Not finished yet

Not driven it yet

Gear change rod type

All gears as per the Audi. The correct way around.

On the hole a good drive for a first outing.

Need to make the oil stay in the gear box. I guess that my breather hole is to big.

Plus the gear lever moves to far in my opinion from left and right, so some fine tuning needed there tomorrow.

DVX code gear box with 185 14 tyres gives 77mph @ 3000 and 90mph @ 3500.

At the bottom end 1st gear 1000rpm=6mph.

Tim.

Be nice to have such a conversion that uses all off the shelf vag parts as you said earlier, if something gives abroad it can be a pain in the arseespecially if you have to try and get something fabricated