Exhaust manifold and turbo removal
Printed From: The Brick-yard
Category: T5 Section
Forum Name: T5 Chat
Forum Description: Forum for T5 specific chat
URL: http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=54447
Printed Date: 20 Apr 24 at 11:01
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Exhaust manifold and turbo removal
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Subject: Exhaust manifold and turbo removal
Date Posted: 11 Jun 10 at 09:33
|
It's time for me to remove and repair my blowing exhaust manifold, and I would like to check the turbo out at the same time - it switches to safety mode, or something, and needs rebooting - ignition off/on - in order to get full power again - this is worse after a fairly inactive winter, but happens occasionally even after I've been at full-bore for extended periods on German Autobahns.
I've checked the diagram on Elsawin, but can't make out if the exhaust manifold can be removed without disturbing the turbo - I can see the fresh-air-in and fresh-air-out ducting, and also the exhaust connection, but can't see how the exhaust gas gets into the turbo.
Do I need to remove the turbo? Can I free it up without removing it?
Can anyone give advice regarding manifold and/or turbo removal?
Thanks and regards,
Rupert
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Replies:
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 11 Jun 10 at 13:16
|
I can't really offer any advice but would really appreciate a write up of how it is done as I need to do this myself. Make sure you get a manifold gasket. Not getting safe mode from the exhaust manifold alone so would guess you have bigger problems. I am fairly sure you need to drop the exhaust and then the manifold should come straight off (once you have ripped your hand apart undoing the nuts)
------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 09:07
Had a go at the weekend, but the turbo has to come off in order to remove the exhaust manifold! 
The exhaust manifold has failed twice on the right-hand pot (left-hand when looking from the front). It's cracked on a weld close to the block. And the flange has deformed. The exhaust manifold is not a quality item - shame on you VW!
Access to the turbo mountings is not great, especially without a pit or ramp.
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 20:53
|
I had an advisory on this on my recent mot - "minor exhaust gas leak from exhaust (manifold area)" is there a new or better one to fit. or is it best to get it welded back up better than it was before? Any idea on the price and rough cost to get the job done by a garage? Dave ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 22:29
|
yeah what metal is it (i.e. what welder do I need to find?) was told that it wasn't cast iron. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 14:58
|
The manifold looks as if it's made of stainless steel - I can't be sure. It is fabricated, and has not gone rusty; just darkish brown. I'll check to see if it's magnetic tonight. I checked at my VW dealer this morning. They said that they have tried welding them in the past, but it has not been successful. But they would say that wouldn't they!
The manifold is horribly expensive (about £300) but VW only state 2.20 hours to replace it - despite the fact that the difficult-to-get-to turbo has to come off. Plus they give a 2-year guarantee if they do the work.
I asked if the manifold had been updated since mine (2005) and they said, according to the part number, it looks as if it has not been.
I'm going to get my dealer to do the work. I'll get the old manifold back, have it welded and keep ready for next time!
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: fantasam
Date Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 15:23
------------- Man of few words, many farts |
Happy Yellow wrote:Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 08:25
|
Correct fantasam - I didn't mean that if it was magnetic; it would not be s/s, rather if it was non-magnetic it would more or less confirm that it was s/s.
Anyway, the manifold is magnetic.
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 09:26
|
I thought that the shiny "stainless steel" looking bit was just a cover or a heat shield, and that the actual manifold was inside that. When i had a look before for any damage to the manifold it seemed that it was just a thin case - too thin and lacking any signs of extreme heat to be the actual manifold? Or have you already removed this to inspect the manifold properly? Dave ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 10:11
|
There is a bright s/s cover over the manifold - I was not referring to this - it cannot be removed with the manifold in situ.
I found my actual manifold to be leaking at two points very close to the engine block on the L/H side facing the engine (air-box end). There may be other leaks that the thin s/s cladding could be concealing. There was quite a bit of soot visible once I'd removed the air-box - it's been leaking for over a year (some 30k miles).
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 16 Jun 10 at 22:08
|
Ah i see, I haven't seen any obvious black marks around mine, but i will have a closer look tomorrow. I know that some people who thought they had a leaky manifold actually just had a leaky gasket on it which is obviously far cheaper to replace. Can you really notice yours when you are driving? if it wasn't for the MOT advisory i wouldn't have know that there was a problem with mine. Still, i might just put my warranty direct policy to the test and try and get this sorted out - don't want to be wasting any precious power! ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: brownster
Date Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 07:14
|
Be careful with the warranty direct action. Had my water pump replaced with them, then found out that the policy that I took out didn’t cover the full cost for dealer labour. Ended up being approx £100 out of pocket. Total waste of money. Won’t be renewing my membership that’s for sure! ------------- T32 140 Kombi Facelift Metallic Natural Grey |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 07:51
|
Yeh they offer a few different levels of cover and the max labour rate per hour changes with each one. I didn't get high enough cover for taking it to a dealer but i would never do that anyway, I've got enough to pay for my local decent indy's rates though so might give it a go. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 09:01
Once I'd removed the air-box the shoot was obvious - there is quite a lot of it.
It's difficult to know if the gasket has failed or not - it looks as if something has distorted on the down-stream side of the flange. I'll know when I get the manifold back on 4th July. However, there is also a crack at the weld near the flange. If you think that your gasket has failed, you could try slackening and re-torquing the flange bolts (I know it's not correct, but it can work - only undo half a turn and then re-torque to 25 Nm).
Yes, I do notice the leak when driving. I keep my van in a garage, and by the time I've reversed out, exhaust gas can be smelt inside the van, as there is no draft to carry it away. My wife noticed it before me. She insisted that it was because I'd removed the pollen filter (as the smell started at about the same time I did that), but I don't think a filter can filter out smell.
Also, when accelerating, I can hear the gas escaping just before the turbo cuts in. It almost sounds like a metallic ticking. I remember the sound from the leaking manifold of my 5-cylinder Passat back in 1988! It's a lot more noticeable when the engine's cold. I expect expansion helps to close the gaps.
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 22:07
Thats interesting, I have noticed a "metallic ticking" noise on my van, moreso when cold
What RPM do you notice this ticking at?
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 17 Jun 10 at 22:44
|
I've just taken the air box out as you suggested and found the leak in mine too - same place coming from the end port. I had a closer look and managed to find the crack, and also another one developing at the opposite end of the manifold. Also looks like its too rusty to be stainless? Here are some pics: the black patch from where it has been leaking  the crack which it is leaking from  the crack appearing at the other end of the manifold  I've just emailed MIJ who did my exhaust and decat to see what they would charge for a stainless manifold. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 09:37
Sorry, I can't say, as I never look at my rev-counter. But it happens fairly early on, and under normal acceleration. Maybe open your window to hear more easily.
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 09:48
|
mistadave: great photos!
I have a crack in the manifold just as you have as shown in your last photo, but on my air-box end port.
The leak in your second photo; I have not got. Mine was leaking at the flange, between the rusty part and the bright part, but on the same side as yours.
Both my leaks are at the air-box port.
And yes, the manifold is far too rusty to be s/s - mine is much less so. Did you mean that you were going to ask MIJ to make you a s/s manifold? I would have thought it would be too difficult - it's a complicated thing and has to match up with the turbo etc.
Good Luck. ------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 13:01
|
GOOD NEWS!!! MIJ are going to develop one in august as they have had a few people ask them for one, ive just put my name down for one. It will cost about £350 for a full stainless t-304 manifold and if their exhausts are anything to go by it will be top quality and have a lifetime guarantee. I'm sure mine will be fine until then so I'm going to sit tight and hope for the best. Maybe I can use exhaust tape as a temporary fix? Also you mention the metalic ticking noise, but I always thought that it was the injectors, and you hear it more when cold because they are injecting more fuel. I notice it most just before the turbo kicks in (and drowns out the noise!). I'll maybe try the exhaust tape fix and see if it stops the noise. Cheers Dave ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 13:04
|
any chance that they would do a group discount if several people were to buy them? I might be interested too. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 14:23
That sounds good... it's a shame I need one now!
I expect anything you can do to restrict the blowing will extend the life of the manifold. Could you get the crack at the non-air-box end welded in situ? Mine has been blowing for ages - it's quite a bit worse than yours, so hopefully yours will last until the MIJ item arrives.
I'm fairly sure about the metallic ticking - it sounds like one thing, rather than 5 injectors. I'll report back when I've had the manifold replaced.
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: max and caddy
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 19:21
| i did one of these today at work and it was only blowing at the turbo flange, it appeared to be warped slightly...the turbo that is not the manifold! filed it flat and its ok for noe at least. |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 19 Jun 10 at 01:22
|
I'd be up for a stainless manifold too.. Mine has been leaking for ages, I have the ticking noise at speed, I guess that it is the sound of the exhaust gases being forced out of the crack on the exhaust stroke but at lower speeds the manifold screeches... It is getting worse and is quite embarrassing as the screech is starting to turn heads as I drive by... Been trying to get hold of a second hand manifold to have it welded and swap it over one week end but there seems to be none about
------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 19 Jun 10 at 08:06
|
I see what you mean about the ticking, didn't think about it that way - it certainly isnt fast enough to be all the injectors. I'm probably going to order some quicksteel thermosteel cold weld paste - they say it is good for exhaust manifolds and up to 1350 degrees c so should hopefully hold seeing as it is on the outside and its a small crack. As long as it last till august thats great. Hopefully we can do a group buy, although since they don't know how much it will cost exactly yet they probably would be able to give any discount figures. However if everyone lists their interest here I'll call them and discuss - more demand may speed up its development :) Dave ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 22 Jun 10 at 12:42
|
Would a bodge with exhaust Gun Gum work? You may be able to hold it in place over the crack with a jubilee clip. ------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 22 Jun 10 at 14:26
Sorry. Made a mistake and can't delete it! ------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 22 Jun 10 at 14:39
|
I ordered this stuff: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quiksteel-Tmermosteel-Exhaust-Repair-kit/dp/B001C6A2KO - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quiksteel-Tmermosteel-Exhaust-Repair-kit/dp/B001C6A2KO should get it in the post today. I looked at all the repair gum, putty and wraps in halfords but none were designed to go much above 300 degrees, whereas the manifold can get to 800. Will see how well this other stuff works. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 23 Jun 10 at 09:04
|
The pictures i took make it look big and quite easy to get to - i fooled myself! There are some oil/coolant pipes that make it a pain. and also discovered there are three cracks on that drive side port. The one on the top which i showed before, but also one down the outside edge in the middle, between the stainless looking bit and the cast bit, and also on the bottom, in the same place as it it on the top.   Now it looks to me that the manifold doesn't fit properly, when the nuts are off the base of it doesn't sit against the block, and the cracks have formed from the stress of it being pulled towards it by the nuts. I've now got to try and get this stuff in three places, let it set of 24 hours, some of that with a hair dryer on it, and then a further setting with the engine idling for 20 mins. August can't come soon enough! Dave ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 27 Jun 10 at 23:21
|
Well i attacked it with quiksteel, which was a pain to get on properly in such a confined space. I managed to get a reasonable amount on there with a flat blade and cured it with a hot air gun and left it overnight. it wasn't quite as thick as I would have liked as it was too runny, so went and got some holts gun cum as happy yellow suggested. This normally won't do for manifolds because of the heat, but i figured that the quicksteel would stop and hot exhaust gasses getting to it, so it should be ok. Spread a generous dollop of that around and set it again with hot air. Ran the engine for a while to check it was ok and drove round the block. Haven't driven it hard yet so don't know if the performance has improved, but straight away noticed that it was quieter without the ticking noise which obviously was the gas escaping from the cracks before. Hopefully it should last at least until august and the shiny stainless manifold arrives! ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 14 Jul 10 at 15:03
Here's my failed exhaust manifold. The new one (£300) looked to be of no better quality, so I expect it will fail fairly soon!
 It must have been under some stress, as the cracks were nearly all the way around. Also, the gasket had failed:
 On the bright side mistadave, mine ran for ages (around 30k miles) before I had it replaced.
The metallic ticking ceased after replacement of the manifold.
All the best, Rupert
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 14 Jul 10 at 15:15
|
That does look loads worse than mine! It seems that when it heats up it twists somehow and tries to pull that end port away from the engine block which is why its that one that always goes. My quicksteel and holts gun gum fix did the job on my recent trip to wales, no more noise and I got better economy and performance. I'll get the stainless one when my fix finally breaks. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 14 Jul 10 at 18:14
|
I`m willing to bet my manifold is failing too, I have that metallic noise when cold, and becomes less noticable when warmed up (metal expands and seals better I imagine)
Mistadave can you quantify how much more performance/economy your fix unlocked?
Its looking like a stainless manifold is required for me too - this van is a total money pit!
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 14 Jul 10 at 21:53
|
it wasn't an amazing change, just noticed slightly less turbo lag and maybe slightly more umph when revving it higher, but maybe that was just mental because i couldnt hear the whistle anymore when ragging it? I had been averaging about 33 mpg before the fix and have done 35 since. Again this could all be just coincidence, but it makes sense if you are wasting exhaust pressure to drive the turbo. This is actually the first thing that has gone wrong with my t5 so far, since ive owned it at least. Still need to get round to asking if warranty direct will contribute to it, if they do i think i will extend my policy another year. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 14 Jul 10 at 22:23
Makes sense, strangely 33MPG is what my van averages right now too (calculated over a tankful)
Lucky you, wish I could say that
 Mine has been a money pit, but when its going properly - WOW! I`d be curious to know how you get on with your warranty as I have considered it many times but worried it may well be one of those "Too good to be true" scenarios
 ------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 16 Jul 10 at 08:49
I think my fuel consumption improved after the manifold replacement. At the weekend I did a gentle  250 mile drive which returned 38.5 MPG  according to the MFD (which tends to be pretty accurate if driving style is constant). It's the best consumption I've seen for a long time. It was during hot weather (34 deg. C) also, which would have made consumption higher if anything.
After that, I blocked off the EGR thing, so future fuel consumption figures may be helped by this also.
Anyway, the van runs much better since the manifold replacement. Part may be down to the mental thing (mistadave), but not all.
------------- 2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 16 Jul 10 at 18:28
|
It's odd that not all manifolds seem as bad as Happy Yellows despite high milages. The warping looks so bad you would think someone bolted it up mis-located.
I saw one on a bench today (along with a cylinder head and just about the most worn cam and followers I have ever seen!) and it looked fine. Just the usual surface rust from the heat. And this one belongs to a taxi firm with 180k on the clock! They are having a set of injectors while it's all out. @ £400 each!  ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: brownster
Date Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 21:07
|
Mistadave... has your manifold arrived yet?? ------------- T32 140 Kombi Facelift Metallic Natural Grey |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 21:08
Yes, good point Brownster, I might need one too but I`ll let Mistadave be the "guinea pig" before commiting myself
 ------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: brownster
Date Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 21:25
|
I'm surprised that its not a safety issue.. exhaust fumes entering the cab space due to a manufacturing defect.. mine stinks when i start up and goes once warm or start moving.. might explain why i overboost sometimes (apart from sticky vanes)
Have had van up on a ramp to see how easy a job it can be... need longer and thinner arms, looks impossible ------------- T32 140 Kombi Facelift Metallic Natural Grey |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 23:03
|
I emailed mij the other day but haven't heard back yet, I'll give them a call on monday. I would guess that the problem manifolds have been exposed to higher sustained EGTs and that's why they have warped and cracked, perhaps due to the remaps. I think it said something on erwin about checking for a remap if there is a warranty claim for a cracked manifold.
Anyway, my bodged repair is still holding and I'll fit an egt sensor in the new one - not that it cause any problem to the new one, more to keep an eye on the turbo. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: richlowndes
Date Posted: 17 Aug 10 at 12:14
|
Just to let you know, I've just rung MIJ and the manifold isn't ready yet. He said to ring back in three of four weeks but I have to say, nothing sounded too promising. They haven't made jigs yet or done any testing.
Rich |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 17 Aug 10 at 12:43
|
I called them on Monday and was asked to call back on Saturday when the guy in charge of this was back from holiday. despite what they have said ill call them back then to keep the pressure on ;) Luckily my repair is still holding. I might have to spend my money on a bigger intercooler in the mean time! ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 19 Aug 10 at 20:53
|
Boooo! I spoke too soon, just checked under the bonnet and although there is no ticking noise yet there are black marks where it has been leaking again. It just lasted a trip to wales and the alps pretty much. Might have to see if anyone else does a manifold for it.
Anyone know what stainless steel manifold is in german?! ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 19 Aug 10 at 21:21
|
This might be ok............
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate_t?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=stainless+steel+exhaust+manifold+&sl=en&tl=de - http://translate.google.co.uk/translate_t?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=stainless+steel+exhaust+manifold+&sl=en&tl=de # ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: richlowndes
Date Posted: 19 Aug 10 at 22:43
|
Well. I tried the gun gum today and it has reduced the fluttering sound a bit, but not completely. Funnily enough, the other sound has not reduced at all. It's a sort of deep engine noise. At first I thought it was because of the manifold but now I'm not so sure. It's also more noticeable at lower revs. Any ideas anyone?
I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get the manifold replaced at a cost of £730!!! At least the VW one will have a 2 year warranty. Let me know if you find a s/s one. Rich |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 10:58
|
Hi Rich, on the 'strange engine noise' thread The Loon was speculating about the EGR being open at the wrong time making the noise. And I reckon he could be right and it's possible yours could be similar. I noticed on mine if you use VCDS to 'pulse' the EGR once a second or so through its full range with the engine idling you can hear a deep note as the EGR opens each time. It's worth taking it off and checking it's not stuck open. Or check it eaisily with VCDS. You will need to find someone with a genuine version because I don't think the fleabay ones will support that function. ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 12:01
|
Ok on a rough count there is 6 of us that want an SS manifold. Has anyone tried other manifold manufacturers? Just been looking at JP exhausts down in Macclesfield who do custom manifolds in batches of 10 or singular. I am not sure if anyone has experience with this company but I will add a thread on the t3 section as they seem to be suppling to them already for several years. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 12:33
|
I may be interested as I can hear a "ticking" sound when first started which goes away as the van heats up
Or maybe its a bomb?
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 12:59
good good.....I had already counted you as a maybe  ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 13:06
|
How many with blowing manifolds have blanked EGR's? I wonder if the higher exhaust gas temps are distorting the manifolds? ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 13:29
|
I have a blanked EGR but my manifold was blowing before that. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 14:42
|
Bangs goes that theory then
It's just that I saw an original manifold on a bench off a 130 that had 180k on it and it was perfect, I was wondering what is causing these to fail. It looks like some kind of heat warping to me.
The other odd thing was that this one looked like a rock solid cast iron manifold, not like the one Happy yellow bought which he says didn't look up to the job from new. I know Happy Yellow lives in Latvia but why was his new manifold £300 when everyone here is getting quoted £700? Rupert?
I have a couple of pics of the 180k manifold. Sorry only crappy phone pics.
  ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 14:52
I've already emails JP exhausts last night and they got back to me this morning asking for some pictures so they could give a rough quote. I did some searches on them and they have a lot of good feedback  I'm happy for my van to be a guinea pig but I'm not sure when i would be able to get up to macclesfield for a day for them to work on it, any other volunteers? T5: interesting point, mine is remapped and egr blanked. As I've said before i want to git an EGT gauge once i get the new manifold to keep an eye on temps. there is no way I'm going back to an un remapped, non egr blanked van! ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 15:00
|
Ahh i started writing that before your last post! Mine has definitely warped with the heat as when i loosened the bolts off the flange pulled away from the block. Mine looks more like yellows, not like your picture, as far as i can see the flanges are a lot thicker on your picture for a start. Also I think £300 ish was quoted as the cost of the manifold, whereas £730 was quoted as the cost including fitting. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 15:09
|
I am actually down that way next weekend (28th) could go down a day before and get it done.... dependant on price obviously. I guess the only problem with a batch of them is the different engine designs. Not sure I have Etka anymore so can't look it up.... anyone? ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 15:26
|
For info the manifold in the pics is off an '08 BNZ engine. ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 16:09
|
i think someone else said the codes were the same for the 130 and 174, the dealer checked and it had always been the same code? Not sure though as the newer ones have egr coolers so that might make a difference - not that anyone would want a way to attach an egr pipe to a replacement manifold would they? I'm also assuming that there is no one wanting a manifold that has the 1.9, only the proper engines  Interestingly i was also considering taking next friday off to go up there - maybe we could do a brick-yard manifold day! ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 16:17
|
does anyone here have this problem with a BNZ engine, or anything after 2006 with the electronic egr and egr cooler? It would explain it all, the new manifold isn't compatible with the older engines because it has a different egr fitting, so thats why happy yellows dealer didn't have an alternative code. But they have obviously improved the ones on the newer engines because of the older ones cracking. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 16:18
|
Just trying to get one of my PCs to run Etka (found it) just wishing it worked on the Mac because it would have been done by now! will look up the differences in the Manifolds. It is interesting that the 1.9 hasn't shown any problems....... apart from that they are slow. JP are getting good reviews in the Arms so looks like it could be a good idea. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 16:35
|
you could try https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showHome.do - https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showHome.do , its the online version, you pay per hour of use. I might have a look after i finish work ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 16:48
|
should be alright as it is finally installing..... time to take the dog out. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 19:12
|
Ok, Etka has finally finished installing/updating. Had a very very quick look and found that the manifolds are different on the different engines. I will take a little bit more time to look at them later when I am back from the pub. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 20 Aug 10 at 22:17
|
The manifold on my AXE is definately a fabricated tubular affair rather than a cast jobbie and it too failed before my blanking the EGR... Fortunately I'm only a few miles from Macc so I may be able to help if they need to have a looksee at a 174 set up.... The heat shield on mine has also been removed so that they can get a better view. Let me know if my help is needed..
------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 02:25
|
heres the score.... for AXD, AXE, and BLJ engines the part number is 070 253 017 B for AET, AEV, APL and AVT engines the part number is 023 253 031 H for BNZ and BPC engines the part number is 070 253 031 F These are all manual 6spd not automatics
------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 02:36
|
please tell me that all the cracked ones are AXD, AXE and BLJ! ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 02:59
|
hang on..... all engine codes use the same manifold gasket 070 253 039 C ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 09:19
But surely that would be correct as they all ultimately fit to the same block? ------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 09:20
Cracked AXE here....... ------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 17:56
My AXE is screaming. (Call me Kurt) I think it's probably the turbo but I'm really hoping it's just a split hose. I have none of the ticking sounds of the manifold blowing you guys have but if it is the manifold and if it can't be welded, I'll be adding my name to the list for a ss one soon.  ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 21:08
|
I've just had a chat with a friend who's into heavily modified cars and he says that on turbo engines a cast iron manifold ismore durable than any stainless fabricated one, which explains why the newer ones last. He suggested that on the t5 we might be better off trying to fit the cast one - we wouldn't really benefit from the weight reduction and better air flow of the stainless one. Maybe see if the newer cast one will fit the turbo ok and then block off the egr hole? ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 21 Aug 10 at 21:59
|
Good point Dave. The cast one that I saw looked like it would last for ever. And liquidfreak says the gasket is the same which is a good start. The EGR connection could be different though because other threads here show later engines may have a different EGR fitted. Does anyone have access to early and a late T5's to compare the EGR pipe? Mind you who cares if you don't want an EGR anyway. But how much will the cast manifold cost from VW?
So as far as we know the best comparison for now for the tubular and a cast iron manifolds would be an AXE engine (like mine and Transporters with the tubular) and a BNZ with the cast one like in my pic.
As far as I can find out (not certain) it looks like the cast manfolds appear sometime in '06 and on the BPC and BNZ engines. The AXE and the AXD probably have the crappy tube one. For anyone interested in their engine code, the easiest place to find it is in the cab on the drivers side, look for a sticker on a panel under the dash just below where your right knee would be. ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 23 Aug 10 at 09:28
|
Mine is an axe too, though i have just checked on erwin and the BPC cast manifold wont fit because the turbo is different on those ones - looks like stainless is the best option again. At least we can be certain that we are all after the same manifold type now though. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 23 Aug 10 at 11:15
|
yeah that was my job today, to see if the other side of the manifold would work. So Dave, can I confirm that we are only looking for a SS for AXD, AXE and BLJ engine models? ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 23 Aug 10 at 12:30
|
Yes, definitely just one for the AXD AXE and BLJ I've just done a google search and the AET, AEV, APL engines are in fact T4 2.5 petrol engines, so the BNZ and BPC is the only other manifold used in the T5 2.5 which is the cast one, so it is definitely only the AXD AXE and BLJ that are cracking. Just called MIJ again today and got asked to call back on Thursday as the guy doing it is still on holiday. Haven't heard back from JP exhausts yet either. I think we ideally need a SS one with a lifetime warranty. Dave ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 23 Aug 10 at 12:41
|
Yeah thought the other manifold was for the T4. I will give JP exhausts a shout today and see what they say, are you still able to make friday? ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 16:26
|
Sent JP exhausts an email yesterday and they have got back to me today. Firstly, Dave, Friday is out. They are booked up 4 weeks in advance. Secondly John, their production manager is away this week so they are really hectic this week. James, the purchase manager will get back to me tomorrow with prices once he has had a chance to speak with his colleagues. We'll see what comes back tomorrow. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 19:31
|
I am keeping a close eye on this topic as my van has intermittently started acting funny - ticking when cold, and a funny "air escaping" sound which only happens occasionally when accelerating from cold, when it does happen it is accompanied by a holding back feeling which instantly disappears when the air escaping sound stops too
I would guess this is due to a worsening manifold problem which seals better when hot (expanded) or it may be a hose issue (loosing boost somewhere) but I doubt that would improve when the engine heats up
The manifold leak would explain the sounds and slight hesitation (turbo not getting full exhaust pressure due to the gasses escaping elsewhere causing turbo lag)
Does this sound correct?
Either way I`m too busy to investigate properly at present so I hope it holds out till I have more time
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 20:52
I reckon it is ES. As far as I've noticed over the years exhaust leaks close to the engine make more noise when cold. Often you can't hear them at all once the engine is warm. And as you say, what is escaping isn't turning the turbo. If you can see soot on the head close to the manifold joint that's always a givaway and the ends are most likely to leak. I'll be looking at mine for the sqeaking on boost (no ticking though) next week so I'll take pictures of anything worthwhile. I think it's probably the turbo. ------------- 2004 2.5 174 |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 21:01
When I had my turbo troubles I hoped it was a simple gasket or similar but alas no
I`m really beginning to wonder about VWs build quality........
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 21:15
Ho hum..... Been trying to tell folk this for years  My money is on a buggered manifold.... I got the screech before I got the tap but now I get a mixture of both, varying from day to day. ------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 21:49
Problem is what are the alteratives? I had a Mercedes (famous for build quality and reliability) and it was a TOTAL bag of shite
When I had "the screech" it was a turbo.........
 No doubt that wont improve your perception of VW (I know it didnt help mine
)------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 22:35
|
Mercedes commercials are not and have never been regarded as quality. The MB Actros was and as far as I know still is regarded as a commie block drivers truck. When I was a rookie driver, the only good thing about my Merc truck was the EPS gearbox until it stranded me for a week in Eynsham. The quality of their cars is pretty poor too.... Folk are blinded by the three pointed star. I'm not going to open up the daft argument about which make to buy for fear of upsetting those owners who have cotton buds in their ashtrays for cleaning their heater vents but there are better vans out there, they may not be as glamorous or fashionable. I know that my T5 will be the last VW that I ever own.... My van works to make me money, not to line the pockets of the VW parts department. There will always be issues with DM Flywheels on diesels, I can think of no manufacturer who doesn't use them but there are plenty of other manufacturers who can supply more durable vans for a lot less cash ------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 22:52
Agreed - http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=31233 - this confirms it
If mine keeps on with its appetite for expensive parts I may head in this direction too, they aint cheap to keep on the road
These are my thoughts:
french filth - No (Definate no)
Ford - Possibly (maybe one of those pimped up ones)
Mercedes - No (No matter how good they become due to bad experiences in the past)
Hyundai - No
Toyota - Very possibly (I find them tinny and awkward looking but imagine they are well built)
VW - Would ideally love to but have found them lacking mechanically and their prices are getting daft
Now if Honda would bring out a van (I`m strongly considering buying a Honda car next)
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 23:11
|
Had two Toyota cars, my first was a company runabout when I worked in Dubai... Had it three years, racked up a little under 60k Kilometers, was abused every day and when I left the company, it still had the oil it left the factory in it... Dull as ditch water but a great aircon system and never missed a beat. The ex wifes RAV4 diesel had a somewhat easier life and got serviced but the only warranty issue was flaking paint on the alloys, Toyota replaced the alloys and also fitted new brake discs as they showed a few spots of rust on the top hat section, work was done, car was provided and they apologised for the inconvienience... No other issues. My current Lexus is similarly cared for and also had a new set of wheels just before it was three years old..... This is stuff I can live with, the car is now over five years old and other than servicing done by myself, the car still has no issues... Why would anyone want to pay VW to humiliate them given the number of known issues with recent VW products. I fitted an Ideal boiler ten years ago, that was the first and last...... ------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: Tony M
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 23:11
Could you not buy 2 Honda Acty vans and stick them together?  ------------- Poo IS funny. |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 23:18
Ok, so then I`d have room for my toolbox and luchbox, where do I sit?
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: Tony M
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 23:42
|
You could straddle them both and scoot along. think of the fuel you'd save......and anyway, don't you have to be retired to own a Honda car? ------------- Poo IS funny. |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 24 Aug 10 at 23:55
Do you?
Somehow I just cant picture a couple of old farts in one of these babies.....
  ------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: Tony M
Date Posted: 25 Aug 10 at 00:02
That is the one and only exception. ------------- Poo IS funny. |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 25 Aug 10 at 07:49
|
erm..... Integra type R, Honda (Acura) NSX. ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 27 Aug 10 at 12:43
|
Needless to say, JP Exhausts haven't got back to me, I am still heading down to Manchester today but unfortunately won't be getting a manifold this time. As soon as I hear from them (will call them tuesday if they haven't emailed me) I will let you know the story. Keep your eye out for a Rat look T5.... well actually just a tub of shit white van with half sanded bumpers (been raining and haven't had the chance to paint them) ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 27 Aug 10 at 12:52
|
Has anyone tried PP Tuning in Louth?
My decat pipe came from them and they are decent blokes, when I bought it I automatically got a discount because I was T4 member
I might give them a bell to see if they can do anything
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 27 Aug 10 at 13:14
I did give PP a call, spoke with a very helpful guy and showed him this thread, he looked at the pictures and after checking with one of the lads in the workshop confirmed that he can indeed make a replacement
Turns out he drives a 130 T5 himself but he has had no manifold troubles, I told him to give it time
No minimum order and all he requires is an original manifold to get the measurements from, doesnt matter if its cracked a little so long as its intact (not like a jigsaw puzzle)
He said it would be around the £300 mark but obviously this cannot be confirmed until he sees one in the flesh
Anyone near Louth or have a spare manifold from an early 5 cylinder T5?
 ------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: tarka
Date Posted: 30 Aug 10 at 01:49
|
OK, well i havent found the cause of the "nasty noise " in my other thread yet but my manifold is leaking too!!!! This is looking like such a common fault that i think it should be a VW recall. I wonder how many hundreds of vans out there have faulty manifolds and the owners arent even aware?
Sooooo, if anyone is keeping count, they can add me too the SS list too because im not about to waste £300+ on a direct replacement. ------------- 2004 SWB 174bhp Raven Blue Kombi |
Posted By: energysolutions
Date Posted: 30 Aug 10 at 02:13
Yeah, it should be, but then again so should all of these as they fail regulary:
Turbo
DMF
Driveshafts
Clonky steering
Oil cooler leak
Water pump leak
Rear springs
Camshafts
Heater controls
Boost pipe leaks
DPF
------------- !!Never Eat Yellow Snow!! |
Posted By: tarka
Date Posted: 31 Aug 10 at 23:33
|
Yikes!!! thats one scary list mate. ------------- 2004 SWB 174bhp Raven Blue Kombi |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 01 Sep 10 at 16:39
|
Just got back from JP Exhausts in Macclesfield. John had a look see at mine and suggested that the manifold might be better made in mild steel as it has a little more flex in it... They'll need a manifold off the van for them to use as a template and estimated price tag would be close to £400 plus vat.
------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: Liquidfreak
Date Posted: 01 Sep 10 at 17:07
|
Ah ace, they never bothered to get back to me! Do you know what warranty would be on that and are there any benefits in it other than the fact it doesn't have a crack in it? ------------- 2004 VW T5 Panel Van T30 2.5 130 AXD Engine |
Posted By: The Transporter
Date Posted: 01 Sep 10 at 17:28
|
To be honest, I can't see too many advantages, the guy didn't seem to say all that much other than he suspected that the cracks may be due to the weight of the turbo, he couldn't get a close look at the underside as the van was out on the street. He did suggest that the existing manifold could be a form of stainless but made from a metal pressing. No info on guarantee. I would say that at around 400 + vat, things are getting a little expensive to be a guinea pig...
------------- 2004 174bhp AXE engine..... Belligerence has been confirmed. |
Posted By: mistadave
Date Posted: 01 Sep 10 at 17:47
|
thats an interesting point with regards to the stainless having less flex. We used to have a big problem with stainless steel bike chains cracking and snapping at work because normal bike chains were made of "normal" steel which would stretch, and the more expensive stainless ones tended to crack rather than stretch. ------------- 55 reg 174 LWB raven blue camper. Celtic remap, pipercross filter, MIJ de-cat and exhaust, Forge intercooler, Allard EGR powerpipe and oil catch tank |