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egr block yes or no ?

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Topic: egr block yes or no ?
Posted By: sti 360
Subject: egr block yes or no ?
Date Posted: 11 Feb 09 at 20:19
has anybody done a egr block off mod to there t5,ive done search on this and have not found this done to a t5 ,
is it a waste of time



Replies:
Posted By: Berisford
Date Posted: 12 Feb 09 at 10:30
I blocked mine off a couple of years ago for a few thousand miles, it made no difference to the fuel or the power so I 'unblocked' it.
 
The exercise was more trouble than it was worth as I dropped the spanner and a blanking plate and had to take off the underside engine cover. Not easy when parked on grass a couple of foot from walls on 2 sides. Confused


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Senate Square, Helsinki, 12 June 1993.


Posted By: smidsy
Date Posted: 12 Feb 09 at 12:27

like berisford says,  don't block it off expecting any great fuel or performance improvement, but if like me, you don't like the idea of re-burning exhaust gasses then block away.



Posted By: sti 360
Date Posted: 12 Feb 09 at 14:51
not the best putting shit hot smoke back in,on light throttle in low rpm i can feel a slight change in the engine,it must be were the egr switchs over from ex gas to the clean compressed air,blocking off the egr might stop that
how did you do it,and do you get a cel light up
thanks matt


Posted By: gregozedobe
Date Posted: 13 Feb 09 at 06:47
I have a vague idea the EGR's function is to reduce combustion temps and therefore quantity of NOx in the exhaust.  It isn't supposed to operate so much in steady highway cruising, more around town.  If you block it off you might fail strict emission testing (if you are ever tested)


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 13:16
my egr was sticking a bit despite only 34000miles and a couple of goes at thorough cleaning so i blocked the vacuum feed. MPGs have gone up from 28 to about 35 and the hesitation at light throttle has gone, also boost picks up very quick as none is now bled back through the egr that was sticking and not shutting quickly enough when the throttle was applied.

egr cant really operate at highway cruise as boost is usually higher than the exhaust pressure unless you are really trundling. Therefore i cant see how egr delete would create an overlean mixyure and also increase cruising EGT's. Scaremongering.

Awful eco-device for sure, van drives lovely now and is probably far more environmentally friendly.

85bhp 1.9 T5, egr vacuum disconnected and no eml

to block off you can use a pucker egr delete or even easier is stick a suitably tight fitting ball bearing up the vacuum pipe and refit, or even an old bolt.

hope this helps


Posted By: shadowmaker
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 14:44
Yes, block it.

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VW T4 2.5TDI 370hp, 750Nm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4


Posted By: sti 360
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 18:39
any pictures please ,
which pipe is the vac pipe,


Posted By: VWmatT28
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 19:09
Some pics of the vac pipe that needs to be blocked off would be a great help, and this would be easy to put back come MOT time Smile
 
Matt


Posted By: RICK
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 19:32
will this not harm the van and also can you do it if you have dpf cheers


Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 19:41

Sorry double post Embarrassed



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2004 2.5 174


Posted By: T5 TDI
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 19:43
Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

I have a vague idea the EGR's function is to reduce combustion temps and therefore quantity of NOx in the exhaust.  It isn't supposed to operate so much in steady highway cruising, more around town.  If you block it off you might fail strict emission testing (if you are ever tested)
 
I read something like that too.  I don't know anything about combustion temperature but because 90% of my van use is towing I can imagine that gives the engine a harder time so I'm leaving mine for now. 
 
Greg- I had an Erwin (more or less VW) manual for my old T4 102 that said that the EGR valve was open mainly at cruising speeds (light/medium throttle) and closed at full throttle.  It is also open at idle but closes after a minute or two.  You can watch what the EGR valve working using vag-com and even graph the results against throttle position if you can get your brain around what it all actually means.   
 
Unless there is something badly wrong any modern diesel should always walk the UK MOT smoke test.  And even if you have blocked off the EGR it should be no different since the test is based around full throttle applications.


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2004 2.5 174


Posted By: VWmatT28
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 21:02
Yes the EGR is used to reduce the temp of combustion = lowering the NOx emissions, when the combustion temps are low you'll get higher CO emissions as well as a load of other gasses in different mixes for both high and low combustion temps, It works in a simular way as the flue gas recerc (FGR) we have in the power station where i work, but its a bit bigger scale than a van engine LOL
Matt


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 22:27
be handy to know which hose to bloke

I did some research on egr's when the one on my Camaro got fried a long time ago
it was an electronic one wi three solenoids

anyway i dont like the way they work it doesnt make any sense puttin shit air into my combustion chamberAngryLOLLOL


-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 22:44
http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=469&category_id=84&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6 - Clicky
I'm just going to check ETKA to see if they will fir the T5.


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 22:50
Just had a look at ETKA.
 
My kit will fit.
 
1.9 BRR, BRS, AXB and AXC engines
2.5 BNZ and BPC
 
It's won't fit 2.5 AXD, AXE or BLJ engines.
 
That make sense to anyone?


Posted By: RICK
Date Posted: 18 Feb 09 at 22:53
not to me matey


Posted By: The Loon
Date Posted: 19 Feb 09 at 01:54

I bought one of Mr baxter's EGR blanking plates. It's still in the glovebox cos I've not had time to fit itEmbarrassed. What exactly do you unbolt for it to fit?



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Justified Ancient of Mu Mu.


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 19 Feb 09 at 08:47
There is a stainless steel pipe with a 2 bolt flange coming up from somewhere, that bolts to the manifold, undo flange and slide new gasket and plate in, bolt it back up, done.
Dead easy.
But, like the page says I did them for T4's, but after doing a parts search in ETKA then it showed up potentially hundreds of models that the same plate will fit in one position or another!
I've put the gasket part number into ETKA (the one that the bung mimics the shape of) and the engine numbers listed above are what the gasket fits or doesn't fit.
:)


Posted By: VWmatT28
Date Posted: 19 Feb 09 at 12:31
Just a quicky the engine no is dead easy to find just ring your stealer and give them your Reg no. and they should give you your engine no. BUT have your chassis no ready just incase!
 
My kit will fit.
 
1.9 BRR, BRS, AXB and AXC engines
2.5 BNZ and BPC
 
It's won't fit 2.5 AXD, AXE or BLJ engines.
 
Just put my order in for one (i've got a 55 plate 1.9 85bhp swb and has a AXC engine)
 
 


Posted By: The Loon
Date Posted: 19 Feb 09 at 19:30
Cheers SimonThumbs Up

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Justified Ancient of Mu Mu.


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 23 Feb 09 at 10:56
i think the engine code is on a label under the dash somewhere, its also duplicated on a sheet in the owners manual/pdi docs.
AXC is 1.9 85bhp

hth


Posted By: VWmatT28
Date Posted: 23 Feb 09 at 20:10
Just fitted the EGR delete plate the van does feel a little smoother to drive but has no real performance gains on my 85, it was a little bit of trouble to fit but its on now and there it'll stay.
Matt


Posted By: smidsy
Date Posted: 23 Feb 09 at 20:50
Originally posted by Baxter Baxter wrote:

Just had a look at ETKA.
 
My kit will fit.
 
1.9 BRR, BRS, AXB and AXC engines
2.5 BNZ and BPC
 
It's won't fit 2.5 AXD, AXE or BLJ engines.
 
That make sense to anyone?
 
i can confirm that Mr Baxter's kit fits the 85ps T5, had one on mine for a while now.


Posted By: sti 360
Date Posted: 24 Feb 09 at 09:21
by fitting a blanking plate does is throw a ecu light in the cabin,
also by blanking off the pipe that does not stop the valve flap from moving so how does the engine get its air when the flap is in the position to get air from the exhaust
or have i got this wrong umm
matt


Posted By: CLONKY
Date Posted: 24 Feb 09 at 09:41
My understanding is that the valve flap serves a different purpose. The exhaust gasses require no assistance to join the airflow, and the valve flap stays fully open at all times when running.
The valve flap only operates when the engine is turned off, cutting the air supply. The effect of this is that the engine 'dies' in a smoother manner than it otherwise would..


Posted By: zedzedeleven
Date Posted: 24 Feb 09 at 09:54
I`m a bit confused now. If you read touche`s post on page one he makes reference to stopping the egr by either blocking the vac pipe or doing an egr delete. Presumably both of these methods work by disabling the valve. The plate works in another way does it? by physically blocking the pipe from the exhaust ? The valve must be fail safe close then , so the neatest solution would be egr delete? Confused

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1.9 85ps swb 2004 in friesan green.

bring me sunshine.


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 24 Feb 09 at 12:29
Fitting a plate won't put the light on.
The ECU has no way of knowing that the flow of exhaust gas into the inlet has been stemmed.
All the plate does is stop the flow of axhaust gas, nothing else.
You could unplug the solenoid valve that operates, it, that would be picked up by the ECU as a open circuit, and because it's an emmisions related device your van would go into limp home mode.
Similarly, if you unplug the vacuum line that actuates the EGR valve, that would be picked up and the same scenario, light on and limp home.
Easiest, best, cheapest way of not having problems and not clogging your internals with stick black 'orrible stuff is to fit the plate.
It won't give any performance gains, it's just better for your engine.


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 24 Feb 09 at 18:59
wont fit mine Cry
mines the 174 AXE motor

id still like to blank it off anyon got a pic of the hose?






-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 24 Feb 09 at 21:08
Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:

wont fit mine Cry
mines the 174 AXE motor

id still like to blank it off anyon got a pic of the hose?
 
As it happens, I gave one to a local to try the other day, he has an AXE engine.
Anyway, the part number of the gasket is different but seemingly the dimensions of the gasket are the same and he said it fits a treat.
On the unexpected side he did say he had a marked improvement in throttle reponce and performance.
 
On that assumption, I'm goint to stick my neck out and revoke what I said earlier going on info from ETKA and say that chances are that the kit will fit everything.
If it doesn't, send it back and I'll credit you.
Simon.


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 25 Feb 09 at 12:19
In theory the ecu SHOULD see the egr open by seeing a drop in the maf readings, this is generally how it monitors egr operation which it needs to do, EGR = Less fuel required due to the egr flow being oxygen depleted. Deleting EGR will leave the fueling slightly lean when egr should normally be on, the way i see it is that this shouldnt be a problem as egr can only operate when boost is less than exhaust pressure, maybe 6psi?? I believe you can tweak the system with Vagcom to reduce egr rate, this helps to correct the minor underfuel.
I question the systems capability. My egr pipe is blocked and i have no light on. I suspect that the ecu calculates fueling mainly from boost readings.
I am relying on the seal of the egr poppet valve (which shouldnt be an issue) rather than a blanking plate but when I get a remap I will fit a blanking plate or an allard egr delete.
A remap is the way to go to fully delete egr and correct the fueling.


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 25 Feb 09 at 22:38
You can't have a lean mixture on a Diesel.
Less fuel per volume of charge air just results in a engine that turns slower.
Diesels are throttled by fuel.
ECU calculates fuel by MAF and throttle position, and to a lesser extent ambient temp, engine temp etc, all sensor readings will have an effect of fuelling, thats why they are there.


Posted By: Delfhill
Date Posted: 26 Feb 09 at 16:12
Just fitted one of Mr Baxter's blanking plates to my 2.5 AXD engine and it fits perfectly. Not tried it yet, but off to Wales tomorrow to paddle the Wye, so will try it out then.


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 27 Feb 09 at 14:25
where is the egr
had a look yesterday but couldnt see anythin i recognise as an egrConfused


-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 02 Mar 09 at 16:21
Originally posted by Baxter Baxter wrote:

You can't have a lean mixture on a Diesel.
Less fuel per volume of charge air just results in a engine that turns slower.


at idle, i would agree. But the same cannot apply under load/when driving, the ecu fuels according to metered airflow into the engine, therefore fueling can be rich or lean at any point determined by how much fuel the ecu injects to match determined airflow.
Obviously diesels are less fussy about the air fuel ratio but there are still optimum ratios for performance and for economy.

It would be good to know how the ecu determines fueling for egr operation, i.e. does it reduce fuel:

A) when it requests egr,

or

B) only when it sees the requested egr drop the maf reading.

for us egr deleter's, hopefully the latter.

All the above assuming no oxygen sensor. I wonder if some egr deletes put the eml on because the vehicle has an o2 sensor and can measure fuel/air ratio more accurately.






Posted By: Delfhill
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 10:21
I've now done several hundred miles with the EGR blocked off and although I can't say whether the fuel consumption has altered as I've had a canoe and roof box on the top, it has driven much more smoothly. Before blocking the EGR off, the van has always hesitated and "chuff chuff chuffed" when lifting off the accelerator at lowish revs and after gentle acceleration. The van has always done that since new and the dealer said there was nothing wrong, but it was irritating. All that has now gone, it seems much smoother so I'm very pleased for that reason alone.


Posted By: gregozedobe
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 12:18
Originally posted by touche touche wrote:

Originally posted by Baxter Baxter wrote:

You can't have a lean mixture on a Diesel.
Less fuel per volume of charge air just results in a engine that turns slower.


at idle, i would agree. But the same cannot apply under load/when driving, the ecu fuels according to metered airflow into the engine, therefore fueling can be rich or lean at any point determined by how much fuel the ecu injects to match determined airflow.
Obviously diesels are less fussy about the air fuel ratio but there are still optimum ratios for performance and for economy.
 
I'm sorry, but you are still quite wrong.  I respectfully suggest you do some research on how diesel engines work before you try to tell us how you think they work - they are very different to petrol engines due to the lack of a throttle plate.
 
Diesels run on variable air fuel ratios, and use the amount of fuel being injected to control power :  less fuel (leaner) = less power, more fuel (richer) = more power (up to a point, then it will damage the diesel engine).
 
Diesels work very well indeed on lean mixtures that would quickly kill a petrol engine, and the rich mixtures that stop a hard working petrol engine from overheating would kill a diesel.


Posted By: oddboy
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 13:05
would i benifit egr delete on  a 174 DPF which is remapped ?

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gone to the darkside


Posted By: CLONKY
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 15:53
Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Originally posted by touche touche wrote:

Originally posted by Baxter Baxter wrote:

You can't have a lean mixture on a Diesel.
Less fuel per volume of charge air just results in a engine that turns slower.


at idle, i would agree. But the same cannot apply under load/when driving, the ecu fuels according to metered airflow into the engine, therefore fueling can be rich or lean at any point determined by how much fuel the ecu injects to match determined airflow.
Obviously diesels are less fussy about the air fuel ratio but there are still optimum ratios for performance and for economy.
 
I'm sorry, but you are still quite wrong.  I respectfully suggest you do some research on how diesel engines work before you try to tell us how you think they work - they are very different to petrol engines due to the lack of a throttle plate.
 
Diesels run on variable air fuel ratios, and use the amount of fuel being injected to control power :  less fuel (leaner) = less power, more fuel (richer) = more power (up to a point, then it will damage the diesel engine).
 
Diesels work very well indeed on lean mixtures that would quickly kill a petrol engine, and the rich mixtures that stop a hard working petrol engine from overheating would kill a diesel.
  Spot on.This cropped up some weeks ago, from a tuning company too, who should know better.  A diesel, unlike a petrol engine does not have a throttle flap to control the incoming airflow. At all times there is an unrestricted supply of air to the engine (the 'apparent' throttle flap on a T5 is for another purpose)  as Greg says, the more fuel that goes in, the more power (and heat) is produced.
 A diesel engine overfuelling or running rich can damage the engine, usually due to the excessive heat developed, whereas the opposite is the case with a petrol engine, a lean mixture causes the heat, and damage. 


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 17:11
oh, jesus, here we go again...........
I am not sure why I need to do some research, and I fail to see how I am quite wrong???
To state that diesels do not have an ideal afr and cannot run rich or lean because 'they have no throttle plate' is total b*ll*cks and a statement I have heard a few times yet never, ever, ever, ever heard a good explanation as to why???
I am quite familiar with the differences between petrol and diesel, nasp and forced induction. I also understand manifold absolute pressure and what a throttle plate does.
How can you both suggest to me that a diesel cannot run rich or lean against a target air/fuel ratio and then start to discuss what happens to a diesel when it is run rich or lean???
 did I mention stocihiometry? or should we not discuss that one until I know what I am on about?


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 17:18
Originally posted by oddboy oddboy wrote:

would i benifit egr delete on  a 174 DPF which is remapped ?


possibly, speak to the tuning company who did your mapping. I know very little about dpf but chances are they turned the egr off or at least right down, because they ignore nox emissions anyway, hence the extra power you get.
They probably turned the egr down to help get the boost and power on quicker and get rid of the nasty light throttle running that egr gives.


Posted By: sti 360
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 18:06
this is why i have not yet blocked mine ,it all sound right to me



Posted By: gregozedobe
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 21:48
Originally posted by touche touche wrote:

oh, jesus, here we go again...........
I am not sure why I need to do some research, and I fail to see how I am quite wrong???
To state that diesels do not have an ideal afr and cannot run rich or lean because 'they have no throttle plate' is total b*ll*cks and a statement I have heard a few times yet never, ever, ever, ever heard a good explanation as to why???
I am quite familiar with the differences between petrol and diesel, nasp and forced induction. I also understand manifold absolute pressure and what a throttle plate does.
How can you both suggest to me that a diesel cannot run rich or lean against a target air/fuel ratio and then start to discuss what happens to a diesel when it is run rich or lean???
 did I mention stocihiometry? or should we not discuss that one until I know what I am on about?
 
Discussion is fine and good, but if as a relative newbie on a forum you are going to disagree with what everyone else believes (and there are an awful lot of knowledgable people included in this particular "everyone" ie  lean air/fuel ratios for TDIs ) you need to back up your argument with some pretty convincing evidence to support your case.
 
My apologies to anyone who is wondering what a discussion about basic diesel principles is doing in an EGR thread, but I think this theory needs to be dealt with.
 
Please :
 
Describe how the power output of a VW TDI engine is controlled.
 
Don't bother trying to tell me that it is done by controlling the mixture by restricting the quantity of air going into the engine - well not unless you have good evidence that there is some kind of throttle plate functionality unique to VW TDIs that we have all somehow overlooked ?  
 
What is the ideal "target air/fuel ratio" for a VW TDI engine; and what would happen if it is running leaner than that ideal ratio.
 
And yes, I do understand stochiometric ratios, but I am slightly hazy on their applicability to diesel engines, maybe you should enlighten me on that too while you are at it.
 
Thank you.


Posted By: Baxter
Date Posted: 03 Mar 09 at 22:08
Diesels only run at somewhere near stoichometirc at full chat, by their very nature they, if they ran at shoicometric all the time they would be revving their nads off.
I've never seen a Diesel with a Lambda sensor.
Fact of the matter is that the EGR delete is working, and there are plenty of happy cusomers, which is nice.
No management lights on, less crud in their inlet, some reporting more power, most reporting smoother operation.
So, the facts are that it work and it doesn't put the light on, which is what some where concerned about, so we're all happy.
Sorted.


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 11:44
Apologies for appearing to be a frosty newbie, but my original query quite clearly related to ecu fueling during egr operation and was quite swiftly told that I am dumb and have no idea about diesels, no, I am not a professional mechanic or automotive engineer but I am not a  dumbass. At best, the criticism that I received was both incorrect, off-topic and not a positive contribution to the thread. It could be construed as pointless and provacative.
I was told I was talking rubbish when I wasnt, it was also suggested by the same poster that diesels are different to petrols because they have no throttle plate, absolute and total nonsense, a diesel differs because it is a CI engine that burns diesel not petrol, the fact that they generally have no throttle plate is simply a feature of a diesel engine, because it is a CI engine, it compresses the air and injects the fuel which ignites due to the heat from the compressed air. If everything is relates to the throttle plate, does a petrol become a diesel when the throttle is fully open and there is either no vacuum or boost if its a blown motor? of course it doesnt, its spark ignition that compresses and burns an air/petrol mix.

As far as I am aware, a diesel will never get anywhere near stocih, even at full whack. There would be clouds and clouds of smoke. So you are quite right, stoich is to a degree irrelevant.

So to summarise-

1. My original comments and queries were entirely relevant to the topic.
2. My critics totally missed the point of the thread which was egr delete, I expanded on that by trying to discuss the ecus fueling strategy during egr operation.
3. Its actually someone else that doesnt understand diesels and modern engine management.

There are a few incorrect statements in this thread but I havent singled them out, made presumptions and jumped to conclusions and given the poster a hard time.

So, now, YOU tell me how the power output of  a diesel engine is controlled, THEN you can tell us all how this is affected by egr operation............and more to the point, how the ecus fueling strategy is affected by deleting the egr and not tweaking the ecus mapping?Ouch



Posted By: smidsy
Date Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 18:29
i take that the 'e' in your user name is pronounced.
 
you don't have to be here if you don't want to you know.


Posted By: triple
Date Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 21:18


So, now, YOU tell me how the power output of  a diesel engine is controlled, THEN you can tell us all how this is affected by egr operation............and more to the point, how the ecus fueling strategy is affected by deleting the egr and not tweaking the ecus mapping?Ouch

[/QUOTE]
 
I,l tell you how the power output of my vans diesel engine is controlled, with my right foot LOL


Posted By: tarka
Date Posted: 06 Mar 09 at 22:53
hmmm, well i would like to start by saying i am not a mechanic and i know nothing about engines, simple.
 
This is a very interesting thread indeed as i would like to eliminate some light throttle hesitation (which i thought i could only do by a re-map) and now seems i can do with a simple block off plate. One thing i would LOVE to see is a picture showing exactly where this plate is supposed to go.
 
As for "Touche" i fully appreciate your contributions as you are obviously NOT just guessing at your contributions to this discussion, although it may do you some justice to go a little more on the debate side rather than statement side with your posts. And for existing members to work together to with Touche make an understandable conclusion to this thread as you all have alot of knowledge to offer.
 
I hope soon i can read a conclusion to say weather or not to do this mod as it sounds very promising so far :O)
 
Keep up the good work lads!!!
 


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2004 SWB 174bhp Raven Blue Kombi


Posted By: Vdub_heaven
Date Posted: 07 Mar 09 at 00:16
Originally posted by tarka tarka wrote:

hmmm, well i would like to start by saying i am not a mechanic and i know nothing about engines, simple.
 
This is a very interesting thread indeed as i would like to eliminate some light throttle hesitation (which i thought i could only do by a re-map) and now seems i can do with a simple block off plate. One thing i would LOVE to see is a picture showing exactly where this plate is supposed to go.
 
As for "Touche" i fully appreciate your contributions as you are obviously NOT just guessing at your contributions to this discussion, although it may do you some justice to go a little more on the debate side rather than statement side with your posts. And for existing members to work together to with Touche make an understandable conclusion to this thread as you all have alot of knowledge to offer.
 
I hope soon i can read a conclusion to say weather or not to do this mod as it sounds very promising so far :O)
 
Keep up the good work lads!!!
 
 
HERE HERE!!!!ClapClapClap


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VW Galaxy 130 in black
220k t4 800 special just died!!RIP
Proud owner of an 05 T30 lwb 130 in a whiter shade of grey!!


Posted By: gregozedobe
Date Posted: 07 Mar 09 at 08:00
Sorry, I've officially lost interest in this thread, I prefer to talk to people that at least start off with polite debate. 
 
I'll leave the EGR discussion for those that are interested in continuing, and make my contributions where they are appreciated.


Posted By: zedzedeleven
Date Posted: 07 Mar 09 at 09:59
Come on greg, don`t take the huff mate, your contributions are valued here, and I personally would like to thank you for them. All forums have a prickly patch now and then, we seem to be having one with this topic. Let`s keep the debate going until it has been resolved.
As far as egr delete goes, I can`t imagine an official dealer would be too keen to do it,  mine wouldn`t anyway, even if I offered to pay !


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1.9 85ps swb 2004 in friesan green.

bring me sunshine.


Posted By: GymRatZ
Date Posted: 08 Mar 09 at 10:50
I say block it off.
Not one single reason to keep an EGR in my opinion.
I was advised to remove the EGR valve on my Landrover TDi and even given the offical landrover part numbers for exhaust manifold blanking plate and gaskets, and air inlet pipe that didn't have the EGR vacuum pipe.
I spent hours cleaning out the plunum chamber (inlet manifold) of carbon deposits that had completely destroyed any form of designed air-flow into the engine.
We don't live in the US (Obviously talking from a UK perspective) and if MOT tests can be passed by a 10 year old D.I. engine with 200,000 miles on the clock then a modern diesel engine with super high pressure PD technology/injectors and everything else is going to walk it without any EGR or particulate filters etc etc.

My final words.
Disconnect the EGR from new before your plenum chamber gets coked up and clogged with sh1t that should ONLY be going out the exhaust.
Why polute clean filtered air with carbon enritched abrasive crap air?
Dead


-------------
https://www.gymratz.co.uk

Gym Equipment & WaterRower shop


Posted By: RICK
Date Posted: 08 Mar 09 at 10:59
so is  it ok to block a 174 with dpf that has been remapped cheers guys


Posted By: GymRatZ
Date Posted: 08 Mar 09 at 11:37
I would if it were mine and will be doing it as soon as I get one.
As long as the electronickery doesn't mind then it's got to be the "kindest" mod to the engine IMHO.



-------------
https://www.gymratz.co.uk

Gym Equipment & WaterRower shop


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 11:07
Originally posted by smidsy smidsy wrote:

i take that the 'e' in your user name is pronounced.
 
you don't have to be here if you don't want to you know.


very good point, why would  a newbie whos 'respectfully' told to 'go away and find out how a diesel works' in his first few postings want to come back? The forum wont grow very well with that sort of greeting. I bet the aforementioned 'engine tuner' (who probably could have been a great contributer to a forum like this) wont come back, I bet there are plenty more too.


Posted By: touche
Date Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 11:17
Originally posted by triple triple wrote:



 
I,l tell you how the power output of my vans diesel engine is controlled, with my right foot LOL


I think this is getting close to the most relevant post regarding egr delete, it all comes back to that feeling through the right foot during that first 10% or so of throttle where boost is less than exhaust gas pressure (say 5-6psi) and egr is possible.

I may not be back, but it would be nice to have somewhere to go and chat if I get problems with my van, also perhaps i could share some stuff I have learnt.
The rear left bottom arm fault being one that you may or may not have heard of.


Posted By: Berisford
Date Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 16:07
Originally posted by GymRatZ GymRatZ wrote:

 
I say block it off.
Not one single reason to keep an EGR in my opinion.
Dead
 
 
Well, after reading your post GymratZ I decided to put my blanking plate back. I must say there was quite a bit of black soot on the gasket.
 
I think you're right, that shit should be down the exhaust!Clap
 
 


-------------
Senate Square, Helsinki, 12 June 1993.


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 16:22
OK where do i get one from?
went on brickwerks but couldnt find oneConfused


-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: CLONKY
Date Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 16:27
Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:

OK where do i get one from?
went on brickwerks but couldnt find oneConfused
 
http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=469&category_id=84&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6&vmcchk=1&Itemid=6 - http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=469&category_id=84&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6&vmcchk=1&Itemid=6


Posted By: Berisford
Date Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 18:26
Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:

OK where do i get one from?
went on brickwerks but couldnt find oneConfused
 
C'mon Onefut, you don't need no bought in part, just knock one up in ya workshop. Thumbs Up


-------------
Senate Square, Helsinki, 12 June 1993.


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 10 Mar 09 at 16:04
True
I suppose i cudWink

gotta find the damn thing firstLOL

cudnt see anything like wot i know as a EGR when i looked the other dayEmbarrassed


-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: Berisford
Date Posted: 10 Mar 09 at 18:10
Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:


cudnt see anything like wot i know as a EGR when i looked the other dayEmbarrassed
 
The bit I blank off is below and just to the left of the oil filler spout.
 
Shiney bit of pipe comes from a flexi joint and connects to a bigger dark pipe. Big smile
 
2 x 10mm bolts to remove a brace and 2 x 13mm to disconnect the pipe.
 
 


-------------
Senate Square, Helsinki, 12 June 1993.


Posted By: sti 360
Date Posted: 14 Mar 09 at 13:03
ive done it ,seems to start better in the morning


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 16 Mar 09 at 10:51
ill have a look in next few days an see wot i can doBig smile

-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: triple
Date Posted: 16 Mar 09 at 18:23
Onefut, if you block off your egr, how about posting some pics so we can see how its done, we know how detailed your HOW-TO,S are.


Posted By: Onefut
Date Posted: 16 Mar 09 at 21:02
nay probs mateWink
got fotos ready for a door strip how to as soon as i get the chance to postLOL


-------------
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB


Posted By: mydogisbald
Date Posted: 20 Aug 09 at 21:29
Just thought I post my findings. I have a BNZ coded engine. It is not the same lay out as the pictures in the 'How To'. The blanking plate was put in where the upper yellow circle is in this picture;


The lower circle shows the other end of the pipe but is trickier to get to.

Fitting is a breeze, just undo 2 star drive bolts.

I took it for a test and within half a mile the EML came on, flashing intermittently. I took the blanking plate off and the EML disappeared.

The plate was sooty when it was removed, even after that short blast. To be honest I didn't feel any difference in performance or anything else whilst the plate was in but as said I only had it in for a short distance.

Getting it remapped tomorrow anyway so I'll just have to settle for that insteadSmile.

MDIB


Posted By: wiganlatic
Date Posted: 28 Dec 09 at 13:39
to quote Touche
"to block off you can use a pucker egr delete or even easier is stick a suitably tight fitting ball bearing up the vacuum pipe and refit, or even an old bolt."

No need for fancy plates, just block the pipe.


Posted By: CLONKY
Date Posted: 28 Dec 09 at 14:55
Same guy reckons it gives a 7 mpg improvement as well.... The valve still needs to operate when the engine is turned off.It shuts off the air supply so that the engine comes to rest smoothly


Posted By: Tim the gas
Date Posted: 29 Dec 09 at 00:33
I got my EGR delete kit ( blanking plate and gasket ) from Brickwerks this week.
I'm gonna fit a new K&N air filter and fit the blank-off this week.
I'm a bit confused now whether the plate will fit my AXE 2.5 engine now.
Only one way to find out- jump in with the spanners. 50/50 chance  I suppose.
I've located it on the top of the engine and it looks a cinch to do the job.
Looking forward to finding out what the difference is.
No more sooty shitty deposits going back into my air intake tract.

I'll let you guys know what I think of the mod after I've had a chance
to drive it around for a few days.


-------------
2004 T30 174-AXE- CELTIC MAPPED TO 228 BHP - LWB TORNADO RED PANEL VAN


Posted By: shadowmaker
Date Posted: 29 Dec 09 at 08:13
Originally posted by Tim the gas Tim the gas wrote:

I got my EGR delete kit ( blanking plate and gasket ) from Brickwerks this week.
I'm gonna fit a new K&N air filter and fit the blank-off this week.
I'm a bit confused now whether the plate will fit my AXE 2.5 engine now.
Only one way to find out- jump in with the spanners. 50/50 chance  I suppose.
I've located it on the top of the engine and it looks a cinch to do the job.
Looking forward to finding out what the difference is.
No more sooty shitty deposits going back into my air intake tract.

I'll let you guys know what I think of the mod after I've had a chance
to drive it around for a few days.


Just stay with the original paper filter. Otherwise you end up having shitty deposits into your intake tract once again. Although this time they aren't sooty unless you drive behind a diesel... Smile


-------------
VW T4 2.5TDI 370hp, 750Nm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4


Posted By: wiganlatic
Date Posted: 29 Dec 09 at 12:51
Is that all the needle in the valve is used for Clonky? - the smooth stop?

I blocked off my Vacuum tube to the EGR and I haven't noticed any difference to the stop.  Have I just been lucky?


Posted By: CLONKY
Date Posted: 29 Dec 09 at 14:28
Originally posted by wiganlatic wiganlatic wrote:

Is that all the needle in the valve is used for Clonky? - the smooth stop?

I blocked off my Vacuum tube to the EGR and I haven't noticed any difference to the stop.  Have I just been lucky?
 Before i blanked mine off i wedged the flap fully open with cable ties. When the engine was turned off,especially when well hot after a run, as it came to rest there was a sort of rattling noise,like transmission gears jangling.
When the flap is operational it shuts off the air supply to the engine as its turned off, and you dont get the noise. 


Posted By: downhiller
Date Posted: 07 Oct 10 at 22:02
Anyone have more to say on what clonky posted?

I was thinking of fitting this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EGR-Valve-Delete-Pipe-VW-T5-Van-Transporter-2-5-Tdi-NEW-/170548311172?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27b578b484#ht_1824wt_920 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EGR-Valve-Delete-Pipe-VW-T5-Van-Transporter-2-5-Tdi-NEW-/170548311172?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27b578b484#ht_1824wt_920

Is that a bad idea, as it won't contain the valve that clonky's talking about?


-------------
Bog-standard poverty-spec 174ps T5 panel van (black, LWB)


Posted By: Happy Yellow
Date Posted: 08 Oct 10 at 11:48
I posted this on another thread here:
 
 
I blanked my EGR system, and thought that it was saving fuel.  I could not be 100% sure until I gave it a proper test.  Now I have.
 
Every so often I drive from Riga, Latvia to Bergerac, France.  It's 2900 km door-to-door.  I compared this year's fuel consumption figures with last year's (also in August):
 
2009 Day 1:  8.9  (89 km/h)
2010 Day 1:  7.5  (87 km/h)
 
2009 Day 2:  8.9 (104 km/h)
2010 Day 2:  7.8 (100 km/h)
 
2009 Day 3:  9.3 (85 km/h)
2010 Day 3:  8.2 (81 km/h)
 
2009 average: 9.0 (92.6 km/h)      in English: 31.39 mpg (57.54 mph)
 
2010 average: 7.8 (89.3 km/h)      in English: 36.48 mpg (55.49 mph)
 
 
 
Yes, my average speed was down a little, and I can confirm that I drove for 55 minutes longer in 2010 than I did in 2009 (30:50 v 31:45), but that slower average cannot account for all that saved fuel.  Can it?  I saved about 13%  or 36 litres  or  €40!  That's 3 reasonable French meals!
 
Note:  I've quoted fuel consumption in litres per 100 km as that's how my vehicle works; how I think, and it's esier once you get your head around it.
 
I've treated each day as equal so as to make calculation more simple.  In fact:
 
Day 1: 1060 km   Soviet Union: quiet roads with low speed limits and too many police.
Day 2: 1003 km   Germany: all Autobhan.
Day 3: 800 km     France: N roads only, no Autoroute.
 
Actual total: 2863 km
 
Also, it's nice only having to fill-up 3 times rather than 4.
 


-------------
2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles


Posted By: Jason Statham
Date Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 20:01
I have 3 foot operated controls under my dashboard. The right one looks like a pedal but must be treated like a 2 position switch.On or off don't confuse the matter by treating it like a variable affair!TongueTongueTongueTongueTongue

-------------
If it's got tits or wheels it's gonna give ya grief..... if it has both it'll be the death of ya!


Posted By: Jason Statham
Date Posted: 07 Nov 10 at 20:21
Hi again folks, is there any way that clean air can also go back down the nickle coated pipe down to the exhaust under big boost, thus losing boost pressure? I have just knocked up a blanking plate out of alloy in the workshop and I think it has definitely improved the whole job! I haven't blanked the Vac pipe cos I understand the theory behind the controlled air shut down and I've heard friends T5s shut down with the sound of a gearbox full of spanners. I haven't tried it in daylight to see if it has reduced my smoke output to that of a small power station.

-------------
If it's got tits or wheels it's gonna give ya grief..... if it has both it'll be the death of ya!



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