Are they really that rare.  I have just been told that my freind should insure his for £12k, and that it was a brick yard forum member who told him. It's good condition but has some minor bodywork issues around the rear seams, and will require painting in teh next few years to preserve it (but i like my VWs shiney and perfect)

Is this true, or was someone on here a little on the exuberant side.  i would not pay £12k for any T3, as i see them everywhere.

Cheers

Andy

They never came out of the factory as RHD campers, but what they did do was a kit for converting panel vans etc, this was for LHD drive vans.

The upstairs bed is in three parts, campers out of the factory had a two part bed.

The furniture for the kits was also for the LHD van, and it is slightly different to the ones out of the factory.

What some people have done is put the fridge on the other side and moved the relevent furniture to the right side so it looks like it is all RHD.

The way to tell is to look at the side of the fridge furthest away from the drivers seat, it will have a vee in it for where the seat belt retainer went when it was on the left hand side.

But who knows if they ever did do one offs for people.

Westfalia never made RHD campers - FACT.

However, as legend goes there were a few "Mosaic" campers built by a company darn sarf really badly, once Westfalia saw how dire the conversions were they would no sell the company the component parts anymore.

So, no, there are no real factory Wesfalia campers, but there are some munters out there, can't be many left.

Aparently, the numbers were around 20, again, part of the legend.

As for value,dunno, depends on what state it's in.

TBH, I can't for some reason see them being converted from Combis either, and they won't have the right roof section either..

But, I have never seen one, would really like to, just for my own curiosity.

 forget the rhd thing asw mentioned above -its all relative....

i have a prototype oettinger 3.7 ... one of 3... i couldnt replace it for 12k.. nor could i buy a claer porsche motored bus, or even a well sorted vr6 bus for that price.. although they represent the 'obvious high end of t3's ' 

i have seen low mileage atlantic westfalias' for well over 12k , and it certainly wont take much to make a decent california a 12k bus either if you change the wheels, mirrors, side planking and suspension.. it all adds up .. and when you consider a decent california pop top is  becoming big money even on the continent the 12k bus isnt such a rare beast

fortunately there are plenty of westfalia vans for reasonable money...even if the rariety you ponder isnt really an issue or defining factor in the values... its more condition...demand and specification which can effect two apparently similar vans -resulting in two very different prices

you wouldnt pay 12k.. but the vans you see everywhere wont be the 12k examples... bit like the ford gt40 ... i see loads of mondeos,................  

Viz told me that it was a factory conversion on a panel van, apparently it was driven back to Germany for it???

I'll see what info he has on it.  i do not have pictures, as it is always parked next to mine, but will see it on Thursday.

Retrosteve i realise that some are different, but what is the oettinger engine like, i 'm currently building one (well Okrassa) for my bug.

Red Leader wrote: Retrosteve i realise that some are different, but what is the oettinger engine like, i 'm currently building one (well Okrassa) for my bug.

the oettinger motor is effectively a 2.1 waserboxer with an extra 2 cylinders..the case/heads /etc cast by oettinger.. or rather as a joint venture between vw and oettinger .. funnily enough when contemplating the new t4 and its possible rear engined format !!! it uses the 2.1 injection system,(obviously modified a tad)and anyone familiar with an injected wasserboxer would recognise many of the componants..  its not a high revving motor, but its very torquey ...

 incedentally i have had a bit of okrasa experience.. with very early beetles... and some vans were indeed converted by westfalia at the factory to rhd specifications... 18 i believe..

wether that in itself would make your friends bus worth 12k i wouldnt like to say, however, it would certainly add value if in presentable condition -and sticking my neck out (not too far as the scar may tear )i would say a westy converted rhd would be worth £2500 more than an identical LHD van ... to the right person (ie someone who would not consider a lhd)

ooooh that "O" word... they should have put a pound sign in the name.. all things oettinger are big bucks..

i know one off imports are posible..

my c reg polo was a "special order" in rhd  simalar to a coupe S polo but with lots of bits that were'nt available in the uk.. its regestered as a polo GT the dvla have only 7 regestered at that age as GT..

vw germany were much more helpfull then, if its real it will be recorded on vw's records..

yes they never "made" or posibly offered should be a better word rhd vans but then thats not to say none were made..

but 12 grand is high.. even on agreed value i think there wouldnt be many insurers that would do it to that value..

Baxter wrote: Westfalia never made RHD campers - FACT. However, as legend goes there were a few "Mosaic" campers built by a company darn sarf really badly, once Westfalia saw how dire the conversions were they would no sell the company the component parts anymore. So, no, there are no real factory Wesfalia campers, but there are some munters out there, can't be many left. Aparently, the numbers were around 20, again, part of the legend. As for value,dunno, depends on what state it's in. TBH, I can't for some reason see them being converted from Combis either, and they won't have the right roof section either.. But, I have never seen one, would really like to, just for my own curiosity.

And they won't have the right roof section either.

They do, seeing is believeing. 

Im open to be proved wrong..

Can do, give me 5 minutes..

Here's the pics of the one in question.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/rasaxty/img003.jpg -  

Forum - done.

Okay, RHD Westies.

Thing is with a Westy pop top, they have a different roof panel unique to Westfalia, If, someone can show me a RHD Westfalia that has the right roof panel, and the type number is 254 then I may be inclined to believe you, but looking at ETKA there is no listing for RHD Campmobile. The only ones I have heard about are the ones converted from vans in this country, so they won't have the correct roof and therefore not a factory conversion.

PROVE ME WRONG!  Im not saying they don't exist, but from what I know they don't. Maybe a hall 33 special or something, dunno but until I see concrete evidence then as far as Im concerned to RHD Westies were not built by VW/Westfalia.

Whay does that van above have a add on fog light?

Must also be a bit cramped sleeping in it with the wardrobe on the wrong side!

calvin wrote: how come it's still got the LHD westy lean!?

  It has aswell!

Also, shouldn't B reg van have the later Joker decals, that style were fitted to earlier ones weren't they?

Now Im not exactly sure when the typeface changed on the stickers but I thought it was earlier than '84.

Well here's the link from 80-90 i dug the pics from.....oh and the owner said his next job was to fit a TDi...."Useless c*nt"....maybe

http://forum.80-90.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=13316&highlight=rhd+westfalia - http://forum.80-90.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=13316&highlight =rhd+westfalia

Ooops opened up a can of worms, what do i need to take pictures of for Vizs van?

Not up on all this.

Red Leader wrote: what do i need to take pictures of for Vizs van? Not up on all this.

One of these:

Soz couldn't resist

Above the pedals should be a paper sticker, or the same sticker is duplicated on the inside page of the service book.

That should tell us everything we need to know.

next, lift the pop top and take a picture of the metal roof in the corner, that should tell us if it's a factory Westy or not.

Westfalia made a kit to combat the curviture of a panel van roof, its in etka honest, big plastic thing and a folding two part thing and the reinforcment frame for the hole that is cut out for access to the roof.

Pics save a thousand words.

What do you determine as an orginal westy roof, they were both made by westfalia, just one came out of the factory and the other  was made to fit panel vans etc that never had the pressed roof plate like the factory ones did.

Westfalia did interiors for both again, but i suspect they only ever did either type for LHD vans.

I have seen a LHD westfalia conversion kit and it is very good, 100 times better than the one in this guys pics.

The keywords here are factory and westfalia.

Theres no reason why a special order RHD van could'nt come out of the factory with a westy pressed roof skin and factory westy roof is there. Unlikely but could have easily been done.

However westfalia making a complete interior for RHD vans is very debatable.

The van in the pics has a LHD interior converted to fit a RHD van, that im sure of as i have one of them, it's slightly different to his though, minor stuff.

Two of us having the same type of interior suggests they were the uk converted ones.

So the key to all this is did westfalia make a proper interior kit for RHD vans. If they did then it is possible that a RHD westfalia factory van does exist.

Not F*cking likely but possible.

The myth lives on.

Hi guys,

I'm the person in question that has this bus that Andy has so kindly posted about to provoke comment!!!

As far as I know from speaking to people and the history from the original owner this panel van was driven to Germany in 1986 and converted by Westfalia at a cost of around 16,000 marks (almost £10k back in the day).

This information I cannot prove, but since I've got a stack of paperwork, FVWSH up until 2001, all done by the original owner, which makes me think that this bus was well looked after.

The seams are going in places, and the engine needs attention but inside is mint.

It's currently away from my home, but I'll see if I can get some pics up (if anyone has vwmagazine.co.uk top trumps, it is featured on one of the cards!!!)

Here are the only pics I have at present.

I even have things like the original mosquito net that goes by the boot door. Just in case I end up in the desert or summin

The debate is did a RHD westfalia ever come out of the factory.

Theres no debate that westfalia did conversion kits and i think you will find your bed is in three parts and that your kitchen unit has a vee cut out of it on the right end side panel.

If you dont have the vee this would suggest that westfalia did do RHD furniture, and the possibilty that a RHD westfalia did come out of the factory lives on.

Until we see one we can only assume that they never did.

In my opinion, yours and other RHD drive vans with westy conversion kits are westfalia's, and can be considered as a RHD westy.

What you cant state is that it is a factory RHD westfalia.

Not seen a van with the cooker facing the way your is before, unique.

Full Throttle wrote: The debate is did a RHD westfalia ever come out of the factory. Theres no debate that westfalia did conversion kits and i think you will find your bed is in three parts and that your kitchen unit has a vee cut out of it on the right end side panel. If you dont have the vee this would suggest that westfalia did do RHD furniture, and the possibilty that a RHD westfalia did come out of the factory lives on. Until we see one we can only assume that they never did. In my opinion, yours and other RHD drive vans with westy conversion kits are westfalia's, and can be considered as a RHD westy. What you cant state is that it is a factory RHD westfalia. Not seen a van with the cooker facing the way your is before, unique.

What the upstairs bit?

No, I'm pretty sure it it's just 2 bits, 1 bit folds down (we only use it for storage).

Oh, I'm pretty sure it's not a factory RHD westy, although I am pretty sure Westy converted it (if that makes sense?)

Yes I do have a walkthrough which is fine. The ONLY (literally) problem with the design is that both captains chairs can't swivel round due to the fridge blocking the passenger's seat and the buddy seat blocking the drivers seat.

Putting up some pics of the paperwork that I've got.

OK went into the loft to see what paperwork I've got.

Here's the original handbook / service schedule thing:

Did somone mention about a code thingy?

Here's the last of the VAG stamps, 15/6 years which isn't bad...

Something for you stamp freaks:

Manual thing:

Stack of receipts dating back to 1985:

Totalled them up to be about £2000 (nothing about the conversion though)

How do i post pic in here i only seem to be able to do them in the buspark.

Have pics of the roof section and a LHD conversion kit.

So, anyway does the above make ANYTHING clearer to you buffs..?

And back to the point at hand (kinda) I've had this 2 years, and never seen an equivalent. I'd love to know if any others exist, how and why.

Incidentally the other westy pictured doesn't seem to be like mine???

I had it agreed insured value for 8.5k last year. Now baring in mind the wedge market has risen, I don't want to sell myself short, nor do I want to come across like a jumped up buffoon!

Just more info would be great!

ok I'm reasonably new here and still learning about T3's, splits and bays I know about (and old ford cars but don't hold that against me).

The amount of bays/splits that have surfaced with options on them, from the vw factory, that they shouldn't have had surely proves that there are exceptions.

Westfalia after all were just a coachbuilding company, not just vw's, and it seems quite logical that they would build a rhd if they were paid to do so. Karmann were supposed to have only built lhd vans but there is a rhd in this country and thats a lot more work than just swapping units from side to side.

Now I couldn't spot a factory westy if it was parked in front of me but it just seems weird that everyone is so certain they didn't do one

Well suck my dick..

So, this really is a RHD Westy - factory.

Type number 254 962 is a RHD Campmobile with 5 speed box and DG engine.

L90D  - Pastel white

KW - Green/Brown interior

Manufactured March '83

089 - Laminated windscreen.

102 - Heated rear screen

550 - Sliding wind with fly screen for side loading door.

621 - 90A alternator.

Im now off to eat my own knob and bare my arse on the town hall steps.

The interior of a LHD mosaic camper.

The bed system.

The white bit is the plastic curved part that combats the curved roof problem. The bottom fabric part goes all the way to the back and the top two parts fold out for the rest of the bed. they are folded back to open all the hole space, however they would fold forward once to allow the roof down and fold twice to sleep on.

The reinforcement channel for the hole that has been cut out.

It has two bigger piece of metal that are fixed to the side of the van wall but you cant see them as they are covered by the head lining.

And the fixing plate for screwing the rear of roof down onto.

This slots in and the rear roof struts are bolted into it

And look at that lovely thick insulation, also the bracket is covered by the full lengh headling ( front cab to the rear tailgate) that you can see in the first pic

Oh yeah, was originally white. Was resprayed red when he got it (6y months later)

Don't ask me why.

personally I would be bugging the guys at the garage coz it looks like the dealer that supplied the van, always serviced the van and they still exist.

If you were really lucky they might still have some record of the initial purchase, it's gotta be worth a go

on the value question the 12k was 'insured for' which is not the same as what you'd buy it for 

Full Throttle wrote:   The bed system. The white bit is the plastic curved part that combats the curved roof problem. The bottom fabric part goes all the way to the back and the top two parts fold out for the rest of the bed. they are folded back to open all the hole space, however they would fold forward once to allow the roof down and fold twice to sleep on.   The reinforcement channel for the hole that has been cut out. It has two bigger piece of metal that are fixed to the side of the van wall but you cant see them as they are covered by the head lining.

My upstairs is totally different. It has one fold down panel, one attached to the hard base and folds down and sits on a ledge.

The bus will be back on Saturday hopefully, I'll take pics then.

Baxter wrote: Well suck my dick.. So, this really is a RHD Westy - factory. Type number 254 962 is a RHD Campmobile with 5 speed box and DG engine. L90D  - Pastel white KW - Green/Brown interior Manufactured March '83 089 - Laminated windscreen. 102 - Heated rear screen 550 - Sliding wind with fly screen for side loading door. 621 - 90A alternator.   Im now off to eat my own knob and bare my arse on the town hall steps.

Me to.

They do exist, end of story.

Can we have some better pic's of your van Weatherman for reference.

12k could be within reach, for a rare cherry westy.

quote:

My upstairs is totally different. It has one fold down panel, one attached to the hard base and folds down and sits on a ledge.

It would do, it's an original RHD westy.

Best of luck with the sale.

I've been wanting to get rid of this since I got it, to fund my american jobby that I've always hankered for

BUT the person who dissuaded me to get the bus (verhermently) now won't let me sell, her indoors!!!

So, I'm stuck. To be fair the seams are going and will be looked at this year (new panels welded in), but the interior is still original and mint.

I'll get pics up for you guys this weekend. Anything in particular?

[/QUOTE]

My upstairs is totally different. It has one fold down panel, one attached to the hard base and folds down and sits on a ledge.

[/QUOTE]

Mine too

Red Leader wrote: Alright you smug git.  Thanks fo the phone call.

No worries, thanks for the thread dude, and finding out the truth.

It's out there

The Weatherman wrote: Red Leader wrote: Alright you smug git.  Thanks fo the phone call. No worries, thanks for the thread dude, and finding out the truth. It's out there

Got a big smile on my face for you.  Don't tell em what you got if for, send the thread to that Kiwi traveller you got it from.

Red Leader wrote: Got a big smile on my face for you.  Don't tell em what you got if for, send the thread to that Kiwi traveller you got it from.

Thanks fella - well included in the price was about a grands worth of 'stuff'. Literally TV's, radios, everything he had in his flat he gave me as he was leaving!!!

Put is this way, my badger has cost WAY more than the wedge

The Weatherman wrote: No, I'm pretty sure it it's just 2 bits, 1 bit folds down (we only use it for storage).

My early westy joker is two bits with one bit folding down too if that helps.

Tx

I won't be at the Freeze.

All others though

Oh here we go..... never going to hear the end of this now are we.

Viz has only gone and got the rarest bloody wedge.

And why arent you going to dub freeze?

Bin 'jammin' wrote: Oh here we go..... never going to hear the end of this now are we. Viz has only gone and got the rarest bloody wedge.   And why arent you going to dub freeze?

You sound jealous?

Not at the freeze, but come see me for Volksworld?

lloyd wrote: We also have a 'westy conversion' with full width seat/bed in a LHD with a Riemo hi-top imported from the Netherlands 7 years ago.  The interior is same as the RHD conversion, but on opposite side!  It looks to be they made a 'universal' conversion except for the wardrobe and roof locker only fitting on left side. We are on our way out at the moment, but I will look at paperwork etc. and post back.  Lloyd

is it not just a Westy with a Reimo top?

Well here's the link from 80-90 i dug the pics from.....oh and the owner said his next job was to fit a TDi...."Useless c*nt"....maybe

http://forum.80-90.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=13316&highlight =rhd+westfalia

The biege westfalia in question belongs to a good friend of mine it was imported by lazydays in shropshire the sole importer for RHD westies it come with full uk westfalia owners book and brochure plus options guide with prices ,all in english RHD westies obviously exist because i have sat,drove and even had some bacon and egg sarnies in this one the van has just come back from a full respray and is now awiating tdi lump we already have tdi vento as donar car ,this conversion is not beyond my realm as i was the first person to do carry out the electrical side of this job in the uk (grahams tdi split),

so what i ask is the above quote all about can any one enlighten me on this as i am very confused ,yes you mr g60steve

The useless c*nt bit refers to me, have a read here...

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12745&PN=9 - http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12745& amp;PN=9

There are a few TDI's kicking around, and were before that split came along. Nice job BTW, but not the first.

Mazz have a look at the pics i posted of the van roof/ bed, is your mates the same as this.

If so it did'nt leave the factory as a RHD westy, unfortunately.

Its a mosaic conversion, still a westy as such but did'nt leave the factory like it.

If it isnt the same then it should have the vin plate stateing the model number, this will prove it one way or the other as it would have had a factory pressed camper roof when it left the factory.

I have one of these mosaic conversion vans and i also fitted a Tdi in it, how bizarre. 

Opps nearly forgot, welcome to the yard.

Hi there the useless bit makes sense now apart from i dont understand what hydraulic bit you need to stick a 1.9td into a T3 ,As for grahams tdi split we had that running a good year before it went on the road so we are talking 2002  at the time we were struggling to find any one else who had done conversion apart from a few germans and one canadian guy but that was just what we found on th web there may of been others but they kept it to themselves plus we used a mk4 AHF golf lump and loom which is twice as difficult to use as a 1Z conversion which is a very simple conversion by comparison .

waiting to see a PD conversion now but thats a real challenge we read about loads of people who done TDi conversions but when you looked further into it they had used a TDi lump but fitted a mechanical pump which elliminates of the whole point of fitting a TDi

we had a look at roof section today it has white plastic section as red one does but the roof cut out must of been done at the factory as the panel is spotwelded to the original roof and is in factory paint here is a link to the company who imported RHD westys into the ukhttp://www.travelworldrv.co.uk/About.asp

checked white sticker and type number is 254 042 plus it has options E86 J15 020 120 187 511 616 731 774 Maybe you can make some sense of this, whatever it is its a rare thing and no matter how you look at it its still a RHD westy what else can you call it ,yes it has no gas tank yes its sparse and yes it has a puny water tank ,i constantly tell my mate to sell it and get a late LHD california as they are a lot more van but he loves his van and would rather shove wasps up his bottom then sell it ,i think

mazz wrote: waiting to see a PD conversion now but thats a real challenge we read about loads of people who done TDi conversions but when you looked further into it they had used a TDi lump but fitted a mechanical pump which elliminates of the whole point of fitting a TDi

Not so, go look at all the people who are getting decent power from TDI's, they all seem to go mechanical, I ran one a few years back, it still returned 40 mpg and went like shit off a stick although a little undergeared.

I did mine, dunno when, I have pictures from 2003 of the install, and remember talking to several at Vanfest who had them installed electronically all wired and working.

Even back then Mike from Transporter Parts and Service in Bournemouth had done several.

Very true Mazz,

the van ain't going nowhere (its a 1.6NA)

Took some pics today, will post ASAP.

Mr Baxter, got a set of Merc Pentas but need some wheel nuts for rear. Can u help?

What many people also forget in the great diesel debate is that the AAZ (the Umwelt Diesel) was designed to be environmentally friendly with its lower emissions. It was often criticised for poorer fuel economy compared to earlier 1.6TD's and later TDI's. This engine was still available as an option until the late 90's, right alongside a more torquey, powerful and economical 90bhp TDI.

Hello all!

Anyway........

Back to the "RHD - factory or not" matter in hand before the TD/TDI debate wipes it out!

I'm struggling to get my photos onto this post but will keep trying.  I bought my Westy in 2002 from an old boy who bought it new.  He gave me all the literature and receipts he had got over the years so I'll dig it all out and see if its got anything interesting in.  I know there's a UK Joker brochure saying something like "...now Europe's favourite is available in the UK..." and other such stuff, and an options and price list...  

The company who supplied it still exists but the MD wasn't in the country at the time we called (he's the man who would know according to the bloke there who had only been working there for twenty years!) Maybe he will have a definitive answer as he imported them originally, so we will see!!

Feel a bit embarressed!

Got girlfriend to post pics!

Urmmgh, very interesting as 254 suggest,s its also a camper.

Simon and others will be able to read the rest of the numbers.

The interior of mine is the same, same roof/bed system. Which means your van left the factory with a normal roof and then it was cut out later and the pop top put on.

I dont get it, why would you order a RHD drive camper from the factory and cut a hole in the roof. The camper would have been better leaving with a pressed camper roof, on a RHD van, no cutting holes.

Lets wait until some one decryts the codes.

Its all very confusing!!!!

What I don't understand is that the roof section seems far too "factory", not just a hole chopped in. Its got quality spot and seam welds and the fit is as you would expect from the factory, also the paint is continuous from front to back throughout the van roof section, like it was painted after the roof section was fitted.  I have got to go and see this bloke and FIND THE TRUTH!

The mosaic joker roof kit contains a reinforcement plate, the one that the roof struts sit on and is riveted all the way round. It is a different colour to your van roof so a hole was cut in your roof. Campers that left the factory had a complete roof from front screen to tail gate and the rear section of this roof is flat not curved like a normal van roof. There bed system is a two part job ours is a three part job. The big plastic thing the rear bed section sits on is to combat the curviture of a normal roof. This means yours and mine did'nt leave the factory as a camper but was converted afterwards.

Can anyone read the codes and advise what they mean.

OK, here are some pics of mine...

The roof is being cleaned at the moment so the missus won't let me in there, but here are some pics from this morning:

What other pics would people like to see?

Was out pottering about in the camper today, and Andy noticed this, I hope you can see it.

I don't know how many of these Westy's were made, but it appears that this was the first one!!! Ther serial number ends 0001.

west20v wrote: Is that a "GB" there as well?

Yep

could be Great Britain?

The Weatherman wrote: What does the GB mean?

Gritish Bass