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Power steering conversion

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VW Nerd View Drop Down
Yardie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 09 at 20:53
I hope that you only use std vw wheels on your bus's with std vw springs, and shun the thought of using wheel adaptors.
Total suicide!
Lighten up guys, embrace the mod'ed T3. Be thankful that the communist state of England has not put a total stop to people modifying their vehicles just yet.
I hope that those of you who fit vw power steering to a non power steering bus's get an engineers report, it might help you to sleep and night!
Tim.

Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
Bristol

Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tee3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 09 at 22:22
Originally posted by VW Nerd VW Nerd wrote:

I hope that you only use std vw wheels on your bus's with std vw springs, and shun the thought of using wheel adaptors.
Total suicide!
Lighten up guys, embrace the mod'ed T3. Be thankful that the communist state of England has not put a total stop to people modifying their vehicles just yet.
I hope that those of you who fit vw power steering to a non power steering bus's get an engineers report, it might help you to sleep and night!
Tim.



Fact is, my insurance company know about my springs. They know about the adaptors. they know about the wheels. They dont have issues with any of it.
There is no reason why you should need an engineers report for a system from OE parts.

Nobody is knocking this system, but there will be issues with the insurance if you tell them you cobbled a home brew assisted steering system to it that you bought off some bloke on the internet.

Sourcing the parts yourself and putting it all together is one thing, but when you start marketing it as a kit, then you could be on dodgy ground if something does go wrong.
Like I say, no-one is knocking the system, just pointing out that there could be issues. Better to be upfront about it from the outset isnt it?



Edited by Tee3 - 15 Mar 09 at 22:22

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baxter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 09 at 00:20
Deffo in the realms of product liability insurance if you ask me!
I appreciate that the column has been tested and deemed safe in the car it came from, but steering columns are potential killers in an accident, hence why they collapse inside theirselves, but without going and crashing a few then your never gunna know.
Dodgy ground if you ask me Tim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B1GVUU Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 09 at 22:59
any news on the speed sensor kit i could do with two of them asap just need the speed sensor parts though not the column got that sorted
cheers john
WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPOSIBILITY

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 09 at 22:57
I am still trying to get the speed sensor ring part of the system made up (in China)

Not best pleased with the rate of progress I am looking to find a uk manufacturer to make things easier!

Keep in touch

Tim
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
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Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B1GVUU Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 09 at 10:25
Thanks Tim will have to put the manual adjust one on for now until you get hold of any
cheers John
WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPOSIBILITY

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rjes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 09 at 03:30
Hello brick-yard folks,
    As somebody above mentioned I am also working on an direct electric steering assistance system. I have had prototypes installed in my daily driver Syncro (complete with 255 tyres to give it a thorough test) for 16 months. The system currently installed is the third (and hopefully final) prototype of the mechanical side of the installation. The testing has gone very well so far.
     My system is fully speed sensitive, as I consider a dash adjustable fixed rate of assistance (like the control modules available on the internet) dangerous, having tried them. If you turn dash adjustable, fixed rate assistance up when parking, then turn out of the car park on to a dual carriageway without turning it down, you could literally spin the wheel with your little finger at 60mph if you tried, with no feedback through the steering at allI spent a lot of time trying to find a single fixed amount of assistance which is acceptable at both high and low speeds, and there simply isn't one. Im my system, shape of the speed / assistance curve is adjustable, within limits, to allow it to be set to suit your tyres and preferences. It won't allow you to adjust it to give massisve amounts of excessive assistance reletive to the speed. I may also do a preset version, set to suit a typical T3 installation in which the owner does not want to treat the setting as an experiment. I need to do a bit more experimenting with preset versions before making the decision.
     I have tested all the electrical failure modes I can think of such as loss of input signals, etc, and the system responded in a very controlled way in each case, with the effects on driveability less severe than if the belt snapped on a hydraulic power steering system.
 
     As with all my produsts, the design philisophy is to achieve the closest possible quality to an OEM installation (especially for something as critical as steering), but in a way which is suitable for low volume manufacture. My installation features two seperate fully collapsible sections, one in the upper and one in the lower column sections (there is only one in the original VW installation). All torque transmitting joins in the system are splined (no welds, etc), and are designed and manufactured by OEM steering specialists. I also have product liability insurance for my products, including the power steering project. I suspect that my insurers will rule out exports of the steering system to the US though. I suggest that anyone manufacturing any kind of safety critical product without product liability cover probably ought to do a product liability course to find out why having cover should be within their interests.
    Once I have finished developing and productionising the system, I will be offering a complete kit, which will comprise of the EPAS unit, the control electronics, the speed sensor system, a cowl to hide the system away under the dash, a wiring harness, and full instructions. LHD and RHD kits will be available. The RHD kit will be a true 'bolt-on' installation, and the LHD kit will require some minor, but unavoidable trim mods. Installation of the complete kit would take just a few hours, and will easily suited to a moderately competent DIYer. I may also sell the speed sensitive, calibratable control system seperately, for use in non VW applications.
 
    This is very much a project which I am fitting in the development work for as and when, around my Subaru conversion products work, which usually keeps my busy for more hours per week than I would ideally choose to work. Therefore I don't have any 'available by' dates. It is not 'just around the corner'. I would estimate that 85% of the work is done, with the remaining 15% being productionising the electronics and harness, and finishing the development of the cowl moulding. I have sourced suppliers for all but two (hopefully relatively simple) components.
    There will be no info on www.rjes.com about this power steering products until they are available, and I'm afraid I am not going to be answering technical questions about how parts of it work. Someone has already taken advantage of my previous willingness to discuss why speed sensitive assistance is necessary and the details of how my system works. Having already had one of my Subaru conversion products copied, I now discuss the engineering behind my products with very very few people I'm afraid, especially before they are in production. I'm really sorry if this makes me seem paranoid, but I object to others benefiting from my work.
      I have a growing mailing list of potential customers for the power steering system, and I will be sending information to those on the list up front, nearer the time.


Edited by rjes - 27 Apr 09 at 03:43
Regards,

Richard Jones,
R J Engineered Solutions,
rjes.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 09 at 18:21
Good info Rjes, especially on the collapsible sections for safety and OEM parts... looking forward to seeing this kit on the market.
 
MG


Edited by Ghia - 28 Apr 09 at 18:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 09 at 22:38
Hi all with an interest in epas (electric power assisted steering)
I will be at Van West next weekend with the power steering system fitted to my van if anyone wants to come and have a look at it and a chat about what is involved in converting your bus.
Also anyone is welcome to call me if you're down in the Bristol area for a look!
Tim.
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
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Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eatcustard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 09 at 08:24
Rjes

I will be getting one from you, when its ready.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverbullet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 09 at 12:52
Originally posted by VW Nerd VW Nerd wrote:

I estimate the cost to build and fit epas (electric power assisted steering) to be about £400 with road speed sensing included.
 
Hi  - another newbie here,
 
I've been getting stuck into our new bus (obsessively) and this job is top of the list.
 
VW Nerd - Your work looks really good so at this price put me down for a kit right now!
Contact me direct or via forum.
 
Got to get this sorted asap so that mem'sahib can drive me home when past my best of an evening...
Have I missed anything?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 09 at 14:15
I now have all parts in stock for electric power assisted steering epas, this also includes parts used for the vehicle road speed sensor. This part is used to adjusts the assistance given to the steering for different road speeds. This gives light steering while parking and a firm stiffer feeling when driving at speed.
I look forward to hearing from any one who would like to try or buy a system.

Tim.
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
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Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garry247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 09 at 23:58
how much for the kit.

Thanks,

Garry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3ADICT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 09 at 03:17
just to chuck a big spanner in the works...lol
 
i spend way to much time in breakers yards but see the underside if many a car..  i personaly would rather try to find a conventional PAS rack that could be modded to fit a t3.. then use a pug 106/saxo electric pump.
 
to me half the thing i love about my van's is i can DIY it.. and do it safely.. the reason i can do this is the vans are quite simple..
now i can see why a mini with huge power might be better with an electric system as there was never much space in a min's engine bay and if its got a vtec lump in ther for eg there is even less.
 
there are so many cars/vans out there running a standard PAS system why not try to find a rack that would be easily modded onto a T3.
 
look at it this way.
alternative oil type power rack would posibly require
custom track rods. new holes for mounting to the underside. custom linkage from the standard stearing linkage.  an electric pump/hoses. 12 volt feed.
 
electric pas
a fair number of new column parts custom made, the column speed sensor/ cable/sensor ring. new column shroud. control unit, power feed to control unit. loom. adaptors for the steering wheel,stalks ignition system.
you also have to find more space to fit the control unit.
 
 
there are more custom parts that go into the electric pas system. thus more cost and complication.
keep it simple... makes life easy...
 


Edited by T3ADICT - 13 Jul 09 at 03:20
WHY T3's.... because they are just so adictive, and having one just aint enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 09 at 09:31
Just to remove a big spanner from the works.

Fitting and using a pre built epas system with vehicle road speed sensor and pre made wiring loom is very straight forward and can be fitted in a morning if you have reasonable mechanical knowledge. One important fact about the epas kit I make is that it uses the std T3 steering wheel and wiper/indicator stalks so no unnecessary wiring to contend with or replacement steering wheel needed.

Another point, with some minor cutting to the cowl that covers the underside of your factory steering column this can also be reused keeping the whole instal very neat and tidy.

I am selling complete kits for £300 at the moment and can supply and fit kits for £400

The great thing about the people involved in the VW T3 scene is that there are some great innovators out there and there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak. I have seen so many good modifications out there and praise any one who has the imagination and drive to bring these concepts into reality.

If you think that electric power steering pumps and power racks are better than a column powered by an electric motor then there is nothing stopping you putting such a system together. Best of luck to you guys.

Fiat, MG and General motors to name but a few started using electrically powered columns on there cars. So why not use tried and tested modern technology-No pipes-pumps-oil leaks or rusty pipes to replace.
Just fit the column into your bus with the loom supplied and job done! You decide.
Tim
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
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Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW Nerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 09 at 09:53
If any one has epas on their bus already and wants to fit vehicle road speed sensing I can offer a kit with the parts needed to convert from the dash mounted control module.
Developing parts for the VW T3 TDI market Inc flipped audi gearbox install parts.

Tim Shettle
www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk
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Tel/txt 07810 320 464

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverbullet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 09 at 10:21
Just to help this discussion along: if anyone's got any doubts about epas, there's a firm based at Silverstone called GTC engineering (no connection to me) who offer this system for Aston Martin cars, which are rather more costly to put right in the event of a mishap than our buses. Their owners probably aren't averse to phoning their solicitors, either.
They use the system because it is simple, self-contained and unobtrusive. No plumbing or pumps, no bhp wasted , no excess heat, nothing to give the game away when the bonnet's up and quaffing Chablis.
You wouldn't know it's there until taking a back-to-back test drive. Which I haven't. I've got a T3!


Edited by silverbullet - 13 Jul 09 at 10:21
Have I missed anything?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote niko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 09 at 13:11
I think this sounds like a great mod on the face of it.....hats off to someone with the know how and motivation to get this going.....
good price too.
 
I bought a std LHD power steering rack about 2 months ago......but now I think I will go down the option as offered here.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coolleocool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 10:58
Hi all,
I have mounted and used for about 3 monts now a french filth electric power steering pump, it works great.
My only poblem now is that I need a new steering rack and can't seem to be able to find one locally (South of Italy), is there another vw vwhicle model that has a rack that I could modifyto fit my 1981 9pack T3?. I will buy one of those speed sensing kits as soon as I am back in proper cruising oder as i don't have any at the moment (My van had no power steering... talking about which, VW nerd, could I see a pic of the kit??) 
I also have a bracket and pump off a 1900cc diesel engine that I am more than happyto give to anyone in need (providing they pay for the postage).
regards to all,
Maurizio (RUFUS).
   Maurizio
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UAP1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 11:13
It may appear a stupid question but has anyone ever fitted /modified a power steering rack and pump to their vehicle other than a VW pump and rack
I.e Range Rover or similar
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