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Pierburg 2E3 Carburettor Rebuild - 1990 LT28

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    Posted: 27 Nov 12 at 14:20
Hi - I have a 1990 LT28 pre-power steering - having some trouble getting into the engine bay atm due to using my motorcycle for work and never being at home when it's light...

Having horrendous running problems when I use the van, starts on the button, but God help you of you stall it - I've ran the battery down twice trying to restart it. Very stressful. Also, takes literally 10 minutes of 'running like a bloody bugger 'driving to fully warm up or 25 minutes when sitting still revving the engine to get it into a position where you can drive without cold-problems.

Our garage have said the automatic choke is to blame but have been unable to repair it - I have been advised a manual choke conversion may be the way forward, or possible a full rebuild?

I'm wanting to do the manual choke conversion due to the cost as there is a previous post on here where Volition82 put up a company in the South that did the kit for £59 but I am not sure what my carb is. Just says Pierburg 2E - what are the differences between 2E and 2E2 2E3 ETC? I will have to wait til the weekend before I can strip this further due to my tools being at a friends house any help appreciated before I commit myself! Thanks




Edited by verbatim - 15 Dec 12 at 12:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 12 at 09:56
Obviously I don't know why the garage suggested the auto choke, but the fact it's starting OK suggests it's richening the mixture fine when cold. If it was sticking on I'd expect it to run and start OK during the warm up period, getting worse the hotter it gets. If it was sticking off I'd expect poor starting when cold and (less so) during warm up, but fine when hot.

I don't know for sure, but would guess that the carb differences will be down to different jet sizes and hence not matter for a manual choke replacement kit. Perhaps the kit suppliers would be able to advise, or at least tell you what you need to check?
Mid engined, 6 cylinder, turbocharged 2 seater - it can only be a VW LT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreamcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 12 at 21:27
I had similar trouble with the choke on this model not releasing when hot. Once I striped it and got the various bits cleaned and lubricated and checked that the pull down vac device worked it has worked  fine. One point to check is that the alignment marks are correct. (see manual)
 
I uploaded the full manual for this carb some time ago, its on the manual section on the tech page it contains fault diagnosis.
 
Im not sure that there is a manual choke kit for this carb! Cry
Dave 1991 LT31 Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 12 at 21:28
Basically, they said the choke is fine at first but then goes off too soon (think this is called premature underchoking lol) - not sure about this problem as yes, it starts even when ice cold, but if you turn that engine off even after just a few seconds you will seriously struggle to get it going again. When it's warmed up it runs like a dream! I am intending one way or another to sort this but as I'm sure as with everyone, can't justify just throwing money at it to see what happens.

For anyone interested, found these

http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/2E3type.html

http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/2E2type.html

To help ID. Found some interesting info about tuning these carbs so when I can, I will see if I can make any headway with it. Wife will not set foot in the van until it is working properly


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 12 at 10:19
I had exactly the same problems as you.  It would start fine but it was a nightmare until fully warm then it would run fine.  I can't help with the different types of carb but i'm sure the people who supply the manual choke in the link can help.  It took a lot of searching to find somebody who still does manual choke conversions, they just look at you and start laughing!
 
If you intend on keeping the van for a long time i'd also consider the weber conversion which is £300-£400.  In the end thats what I fitted and it really did make a big difference the van not only starts with no problems but it runs a lot better as well.  I converted to lpg in the end but i'm still glad I fitted the weber because you should start and run until warm on petrol.  Plus it's piece of mind that the carb won't cause any problems in the future.
 
The old auto chokes are rubbish, i've converted lots over the years and it always stops any starting problems.  I've just recently converted a maestro to maunal choke.  That was a nightmare to start and it starts fine now.  That kit was a lucky find (and cheap) on ebay so it might be worth checking there.


Edited by volition82 - 29 Nov 12 at 10:30
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pootle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 12 at 13:12
Originally posted by volition82 volition82 wrote:

i'd also consider the weber conversion which is £300-£400.

OTOH I always have problems with the Weber 34 DAT during the winter and wish I'd sent my Pierburg to Bromyard VW to be rebuilt rather than change it. See this thread at The Other Place: carburetter

Volotion82 what manual conversion kit do you use on the Weber?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 12 at 19:56
Hmm - I've been doing some serious digging and am struggling to find the Weber for under £450 - can anyone help with this? As far as the Pierburg refurbish, sounds great and mighty tempting if Bromyard still exists (the link doesn't work and they are now on Google sites) but will need to some serious thinking as one 'expert' says Pierburgs are great, while another 'expert' I was reading from on a popular VW Golf site said the Pierburgs are over complicated wastes of metal that should have been confined to the depths of Hell before they were unleashed on the world - whatever path I take I positively do not want it to be the wrong one because of the cost. Pity there aint more LT owners out there!

I'm seriously leaning towards the refurb/rebuild if I can get it done :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 12 at 20:01
https://sites.google.com/site/pierburgcarburettorrepairs/Pierburg-carburettors

Looks mighty tempting - I will ring these guys tomorrow and see what they say!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 12 at 11:36
The carb kit I fitted was a manual choke as standard, tbh I can't even remember the weber carb model.  If I remember i'll look out the instructions and post the details up tomorrow.  I got the kit from the carburretor hospital and I think it was around £340 inc vat.  There was somebody cheaper, £320 iirc but when I was quoted by the carb hosp I didn't realise it was without vat postage etc which pushed it up to £340.  When I first asked about the kit I was quoted £450 from various motor factors etc but if you keep on searching you can get it for a lot less.
 
I asked about having the carb re-built but I was told that even when re-built it won't be as good as new, you still have a 20 plus year old carb and I was better off with the kit.  How true this I don't know, i'm only repeating what I was told.
 
As I said earlier i'm now running on lpg.  I did run it on petrol with the weber for a short time and it ran fine.  I personally didn't have any problems other than having to re-tighten the mounting bolts.  Even thought it had spring washers on the rubber mounting plate must have settled thus the nuts needing re-tightening.  I can't speak for increased or decreased petrol consumption because I didn't do a mileage check with the peirburg.  The weber did increase performance slightly, not that you really notice in our slow bricks LOL
 
A couple of members have pm'd me regarding the weber kit number for their vans so there should be one or two more out there who could give their opinions.
 
Edit : I've just checked my messages and LT31 ruth and zorrocy asked about the kits so maybe pm them and ask if they had it fitted and their opinions?


Edited by volition82 - 30 Nov 12 at 11:39
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 12 at 09:57
Found the instructions for the kit and it was kit no: 22670807.  That was for a manual transmission 2.4L VW LT35 1986-90, replacing the pierburg 2E3.  The carburettor model was a Weber 32/34 DMTL.
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 12 at 17:23
Thanks for that buddy but after careful consideration we are going for the full rebuild from Bromyard - the carb on my van is a 2E3.

I have made arrangements for the carb to arrive there this week and took it off the van today without too much of a headache!





Will keep you all posted


Edited by verbatim - 15 Dec 12 at 18:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 12 at 19:34
.....incidentally, as you can see from the pictures there was a lot of 'wet' oil on top of the carburettor - is this normal or should something be in the air filter to prevent liquid oil going through the pipe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreamcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 12 at 00:52
Looks to me like the breather valve on the cam cover is not working as it should,
pull it out of the rubber gromet and give it a thorough clean through with parraffin.
You may also need to replace the hose, as the rubber tends to perrish and the hose collapses when its bent round to the carb cap.
I used 19mm copper pipe to replace the 180 deg bend, with rubber hose each end.
Glad to see that your having the Pierburg refurbed, its a very good carb. Why else would it be used on so many vehicles?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 12 at 12:09
Received carb back today - take a look at the pictures - hard to believe it's the same one, it looks amazing!






WILL KEEP ALL POSTED - also changed the topic title in case people search for this info in the future as I seem to be the only person in the world who has had this job done with their LT!


Edited by verbatim - 15 Dec 12 at 12:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 12 at 18:27
ok - so I have the carb back on the van - Roger kindly removed some parts from the carb which were not needed so there are a couple of redundant vacuum hoses in the bay now.

Roger gives detailed instructions on how to refit, tune and operate the carb. To be honest, stuff like priming the choke by pushing the accelerator down halfway each and every time you start the van, well I never knew about things like that.... spent about two hours starting, running and tuning the carb before I had the courage to take it out!

Verdict -

Cold starting - on the button if you follow the instructions about priming the choke and not pumping the throttle etc

Warming up - standing still, very constant and well-behaved, driving, the van gives the occasional backfire but behaves extremely well. Approached a couple of busy roundabouts and STILL broke a sweat because of the nightmare opportunities the van had to stall and fail-to-restart - amazing - did not stall ONCE during warm up period. Van was less responsive to 'foot to the floor' and until warm did not feel like it had much power but as said earlier, 1000 times less backfiring, no violent kangaroo hopping and no pedestrians ducking thinking they are being shot at! Power was full on when warm. Also did a few tests during the warm up by turning the ignition off, priming the choke again and restarting - ABSOLUTELY ON THE BUTTON WITH NO NEED TO USE THE THROTTLE - LITERALLY TURN KEY - CLICK - PURR Haha just need to convince the wife to get in now as she refused to go in it a few weeks ago because we broke down during warm up lol

Hot/Normal - it's safe to say I never truly realised just how badly my 'armchair on wheels' was running when hot until now. Runs like an absolute bloody dream - nuff said

I'm sure there'll be some niggles and issues in the future but at the moment I'm just enjoying driving what truly feels like a new 1990 LT28 - anyone interested, here are Rogers details again...

Name of Company EDWYN MOTORS
Trading names BROMYARD VW and LANDROVER
 
Address 26, Low Habberley, Kidderminster DY11 5RA
Phone 07446 602844

What a genius!







Edited by verbatim - 16 Dec 12 at 18:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adyjoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 12 at 22:23
Glad that worked out for you. Just fitted a weber to my T3 and it's horrible from cold so thinking of getting the pierburg re-done. Can I ask how much it cost?
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 12 at 22:27
A whiff over £300 pal.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adyjoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 12 at 22:55
Thanks, cheaper than a weber...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote volition82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 12 at 09:48
Good to hear it's running fine.  There's not many things more annoying in life than a vehicale you can't rely on to start.
 
Just out of interest when you have run it for a bit, any increase in mpg?  Nice van by the way.  Those cargo carrying high-tops are nice and handy, could do with one myself.
1989 LT35 - 2.4 Lpg/Petrol - Converted To Camper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verbatim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 12 at 19:52
Not able to really check the MPG atm buddy - the only long drive I've ever done in it was the drive home from when I got it! The previous keeper told me it misbehaved when it was cold - UNDERSTATEMENT! Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be without it, it's just true what Roger says on his website that lots of brilliant vehicles are scrapped because of a repair to the carb few can perform....

Still starting first time from cold, not stalled once this week. Just getting used to the lack of power when warming up. Rarely get into 3rd but no stalling and no backfiring hehe

This week, I have actually used the bus every day for work, including a few errands. After 6 months of being terrified to take it out because of the stress it's been a bit weird actually. As I approach junctions, and traffic lights, I still cannot help but quickly turn the fan off and the stereo down so I can hear the engine because I am STILL convinced it is going to stall! Brilliant experience for me though. Still having problems tempting my wife back into it. I promised her I will take her for a decent spin to Emley Moor (from cold) on Saturday so might get to give a report on MPG and get the wife interested again, two birds with one stone!

Chris
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