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Mr Hedgehog View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Non T5 , Advice Needed From Paddlers PLZ
    Posted: 22 Apr 07 at 15:43

I saw a Perception Scooter Surf Kayak today and I think I would really like one, can you paddlers out there please advise me if this is a good model for messing around in the surf

What Surf Kayak would you recommend for a rusty, unfit, pie eating guy who used to paddle a lot but mostly on the flat

Any suggestion appreciated but giving up the pies will not be considered

Will be buying Kayak ASAP

Thanks in advanceSmile  



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 07 at 17:08

HH,

Sit-on-Top kayaks? I guess this is one for me then... 

http://www.perception.co.uk/html/sitontop.shtml

The Scooter is a good all round boat for novice through to intermediate skills. Fair on slow rivers and lakes, IMHO it is very good for beach, touring and surf.

I was a complete novice when I got mine a few years ago [my previous kayak experience was in Lake Bala, in March 1971 - I didn't enjoy that a bit...]  but I launched my first Scooter on the beach, paddled straight through the surf zone and realised the fun I'd been missing all those years and haven't looked back since...

I own two mark1 Scooters [the mark 2 came out in 2006] and find that they are stable enough for my 17 year old lad to stand up in at sea, yet, despite their length, they can handle the surf very well too.  

I'm an absolute non-swimmer but have enough confidence in my Scooters to beach hop, explore caves, tour several miles out to sea or ride some pretty scary surf - I've been out in 8 - 10ft waves with a strong on-shore wind and short intervals (between waves)... 

The beach version and the surf version have the same hull - the differences are that the surf has thigh straps, a small 'cargo' hold and a drinks bottle...

If you've paddled before then the Scooter is great to get back into it and learn the techniques for kayak-surfing (just watch those high braces   ) you may then want to progress onto a more advanced surf Sit-on-Top, eg the Perception 5-O or the Wilderness System Kaos

http://www.wwc.co.uk/products.html

Good luck and happy Goat-boating

I'll hand over to Veedurb and RCS Tinting so they can try and persuade you back to closed cockpit kayaks, or maybe ECB may want to sell the virtues of the inflatable... 

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 07 at 17:19

This is a Perception Five-O

 

...but,alas, not me paddling



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 07 at 19:38

I got pretty close to getting one of those last year, and may do it soon.

The only other I considered was a BIC.

Thanks for the advice Orangina.

I have kept an eye on the local rags and e-bay for a 2nd hand one, but they always seem to go for mad money.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 07 at 23:30
Originally posted by Stumpy Stumpy wrote:

I got pretty close to getting one of those last year, and may do it soon.

The only other I considered was a BIC.

Thanks for the advice Orangina.

I have kept an eye on the local rags and e-bay for a 2nd hand one, but they always seem to go for mad money.

 



NO! NOT A BIC!
All very subjective of course but it does depend on what you want to do in your kayak...? None of the Sit-on-Tops are particularly suitable for fast flowing rivers (white water) but they're good for most other things - though obviously some are better at some things than others.

I'll continue to sing the praises of the Perception Scooter and, from what I've seen, I understand that the mark 2 (2006 model) is even better than the original.

If you want any professional advice, you can't go wrong with the boys at White Water Consultancy (www.wwc.co.uk) who are very, very good and, in my experience, won't try to sell you anything you don't need Trust me, I really mean that!
I don't think they deal in secondhand boats but, even if they don't, they'll give you any advice you may need.

WWC are also the sole importers of Wilderness Systems, Wave Sport and Wild River canoes and kayaks  into the country and are one of the country's leading dealers of other top brands.
With regards second hand boats, I think you're better off steering clear of Ebay in this case and trying kayak/canoe dealers - I'll try and post some links etc tomorrow!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 07 at 00:55

Thank you for all the info in your post Oragina its most helpful and appreciated Thumbs Up, it looks like the Perception Scooter for me as I want something stable which I can learn with

 

I admire your guts being a non swimmer and going out in the big waves

 

I would like to ask with a kayak are there any restrictions as to where I can use it , personally I would  just try use it on any beach without to many people about as I don’t want to be bashing into anyone in the surf

I think I will be off to the Kayak shop tomorrow so I can try it out at the weekend Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 07 at 19:50
Originally posted by Mr Hedgehog Mr Hedgehog wrote:

I would like to ask with a kayak are there any restrictions as to where I can use it , personally I would  just try use it on any beach without to many people about as I don’t want to be bashing into anyone in the surf

 

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/seasmart/flags.htm

 

Well that's the easy answer but of course that only works if there's flags on the beach and other folk know what the flags mean too!

In reality you'll find that you'll just have caught a good wave and a   bodyboarder will drop in  (good surfers tend to stick to the proper etiquette - sometimes )

 

You'll just have caught a great wave and a kid will pop up in front of you

 

So first choose a bit of beach that seems quite quiet (but still has the good breaks of course...)

Until you learn how to control your boat in the waves and any of the above happen you'll just have to abort your run  now that may meant throwing yourself off the boat but then you're letting a pointed lump of heavy plastic hurtle shorewards towards that four year old kid who will just stand and watch (open mouthed) 

Generally it all comes down to your common sense and your awareness of others - don't expect others to act as you'd want them to!... but that can be extremely frustrating at times!

If you've paddled before you have an advantage that you know how to paddle and steer - you've just got to get used to the power and the unpredictability of those big (hard) lumps of water

If you want an interesting, informative and instructive read, try 'Kayak Surfing' by Bill Mattos   Bill is a British kayaker of World reknown and a bit of an expert at kayak-surfing - he and 3 other Brits were the first people ever to kayak-surf Tahiti's "Teahup'o" a very scary wave that some describe as the heaviest wave in the World and it breaks onto submerged coral  

 

http://www.canoewales.com/su



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 07 at 20:58

The first surf boat I got was a Mega Jester Storm.

It is a essentially a cut down slalom boat.

I still love it. Also due to its length I regularly go on longish trips on ullswater or any of the other lakes.

From what I hear Mega still has a really good reputation for Surf Kayaks.

Mine has a lovely bendy kevlar bottom which literally bends over most rocks.

Kind Regards

Mute

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 00:46

Thanks Guys, Orangina I’m starting to think this might be a specialist subject of yoursThumbs Up, I have ordered the book from Amazon it looks like good reading

 

This morning I ordered the Kayak and new paddle and I am expecting delivery for Thursday so hopefully I should be afloat this weekend when we go camping at the South coast “starting with the very small surf first”

I can’t wait to be messing around on a Kayak again  Big smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 06:17

hello

was just wondering if there's a firm/company that sell brackets to carry these Kayaks.....I've got a bilbo LWB pop top

new heart...new van...new man
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 07:21
Likewise, Terryvanman - I really like the idea of one of these Scooters but
with a pop top I,m not sure about transport. Im' sure I've seen somewhere a
roof bar system for our kind of roof. Anyone remember? Would one of those
inflatable bar systems be suitable - the kayak seems pretty light - they
might work if they are wide enough for a T5.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 09:40
Originally posted by Mr Hedgehog Mr Hedgehog wrote:

Thanks Guys, Orangina I’m starting to think this might be a specialist subject of yoursThumbs Up, I have ordered the book from Amazon it looks like good reading

 

This morning I ordered the Kayak and new paddle and I am expecting delivery for Thursday so hopefully I should be afloat this weekend when we go camping at the South coast “starting with the very small surf first”

I can’t wait to be messing around on a Kayak again  Big smile



No HH I'm no specialist (and no where near the skills and expertise level of Veedurb etc) just very enthusiastic and I enjoy the sport very much - I also owe it a lot as I firmly believe it cured my back problem.

Well done on your purchase any kayak is fun, and all kayak surfing is exhilarating - it's an extreme sport,  I'm sure you'll enjoy the Scooter.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 09:50
Originally posted by terryvanman terryvanman wrote:

was just wondering if there's a firm/company that sell brackets to carry these Kayaks.....I've got a bilbo LWB pop top

Quote Likewise, Terryvanman - I really like the idea of one of these Scooters but
with a pop top I,m not sure about transport. Im' sure I've seen somewhere a
roof bar system for our kind of roof. Anyone remember? Would one of those
inflatable bar systems be suitable - the kayak seems pretty light - they
might work if they are wide enough for a T5.

Can't help you on this one fellas - for long runs I throw my Scooter (20kg) into my panel van...
I'm fortunate to be able to put a caravan down at Newgale - west facing beach in West Wales - for the whole season so one of my boats stays there! The caravan is 200 - 300 yards away from the beach so I trolley the boat down - no need for roofracks or brackets etc.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 10:13

Seems I'm a bit late in this one.  Surf kayaks all the way.  Buy Mega, their boats are the business, there's plenty of older ones out there in good nick.  Depending what type of surfing and skill level you are governs what type of boat you should buy.  International class are long (3m+) and are 'classic' surf boats, big sweeping turns, cutbacks etc.  High performance class boats are aggressive fun machines.  HP boats are harder to paddle though and your roll needs to be bombproof.

If you haven't surfed much, go on the UK Rivers Guidbook Forum (Sea and Surf section) and ask advice.  Try to avoid going out and pi55ing off the surfers as a novice...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 10:27
Originally posted by Mr Hedgehog Mr Hedgehog wrote:

I should be afloat this weekend when we go camping at the South coast “starting with the very small surf first”

I can’t wait to be messing around on a Kayak again  Big smile



HH,
 I don't want to teach my granny to suck eggs etc., but here's a few very basic tips to get started...

To launch, pull your boat out till you're knee deep, face it into the waves, jump on (you'll perfect your own technique) start paddling.
Paddle at 90 degrees to the waves (remember they are not at right angles to the beach) and keep paddling through the surf zone out to the 'back'.
If you turn sideways to the waves on the way out, you'll be going for a swim!
Enjoy your swims  - they are all part of learning the sport and will be fairly frequent in the early days.
After your swim, you'll get even more exercise from the walk - back to the beach to retrieve your boat! [at least with a S-o-T you won't have to struggle to empty the darned thing! ]

Never underestimate the power of the waves and remember - no two waves are the same and they're all un-predictable.

When you get 'wiped out', even if you're using a helmet, keep your head tucked in for a few seconds - you don't want to surface, in the soup, to see your 20kg boat heading straight for your forehead

Use a buoyancy aid   [this is a Rule not a tip]

Don't let go of your paddle... consider a paddle lesh!

When you come back in to the beach, get out/off your boat on the sea side - not the beach side! Even those three inch waves can throw your boat quite hard against your ankles and not only will you lose all your but it chuffing hurts too
Happy boating
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 10:35

just been onto bilbos and they said they used to do a bar system for lift up roofs for Kayaks.

the side lifting roof will take the weight of a kayak with no problems

but they dont do them any more

but are looking into finding a new suppler

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 10:36
Hi Veedurb,
Guess you missed the boat on this one...
That's another S-o-T on the water!

But in fairness, Mr HH did say he wanted to paddle and still keep eating his pie - well I think there's an old saying along the lines of:

                   " you can't have your kayak and eat it"

Well with a S-o-T you can!        

I'll get my coat.............


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 14:16

Originally posted by orangina orangina wrote:

Hi Veedurb,

Guess you missed the boat on this one...

" you can't have your kayak and eat it"

Pretty funny.  But then again I suppose you've got to have a sense of humour to be a SoT paddler...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 14:55

Thanks for the quick list of tips Orangina very helpful although your are very modest you certainty know your onionsSmile, I did for a moment think about getting a enclosed Kayak but I broke my headOuch just over 2 years ago and still have problems figuring out up from down if is visually confusing like being upside down in surfConfused, So it was a S-O-T for me for the relative safety of not being enclosed

 

I have to say there are some impressive enclosed Kayak surfing videos and pictures about,. How fast!!Shocked

 

I have been going through my old kit today I have a 4 year old HH Kayak buoyancy aid I am going to use, as my auto inflate life jacket I use on the Quicksilver will only last 30 seconds max before going off I will get something a bit more up to date when the budget builds up again

But I wont be wearing my 1988 old Otter Sport top or I will look like a right old retro kayaker

 

All I got to do is try and figure out where the best place to try the s-o-t will be this weekend, I was thinking about anywhere from Weymouth to Exmouth any ideas?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 15:01

Originally posted by orangina orangina wrote:

HH,
 I don't want to teach my granny to suck eggs

Didn't know you two were related.

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