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Magicbustribe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magicbustribe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: M-TDI Pumps
    Posted: 23 May 11 at 18:52
Has anyone fitted one of these pumps: http://www.hansautoparts.com/RebuiltMTDIPump.htm ???? 

What is the general consensus on the best mtdi pump then.....
The more toys I buy the more toys I want!
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monsho View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 11 at 19:37
hmm, seems pretty cheap - seems to have a bit of a bad name on the states forums, seems too cheap if you ask me...have a search for < ="utf-8">Prothe - same guy

I have the LT MTdi pump and it needs modifying to make it right, basically need to spend quite a bit more money to get it built properly.  i think I'll send it to Giles at performancediesel.ca - its not cheap but all the reviews say he's excellent and knows what he's doing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timmythedog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 11 at 19:37

Looks like very good value indeed. He'll also give you $300 cash back if you send a tdi pump to him?? You'd think he'd insist on AAz pumps seeing as that's what he uses to build the mtdi pumps he sells.

Is it for real? If it is, and they do the job well it's a great solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 11 at 19:38
DONT EVEN CONSIDER IT!
 
search clubtdi forum for 'prothe'
 
he also has other websites
 
turbosandparts.com
hansdieselparts.com
wagenparts.com
 
few others i think
 
all same lay out and all in charlotte all selling dogshit from same address!!
 
 Some poor guy bought an Mtdi on exchange and got a very shit chinese pump in return that bosch told him was very poorly made (after it only lasted 500 miles!) when he took it to them to get fixed!
 
I dont rememeber seeing a thread about his pumps/nozzles/rotor head/cam plates etc stating that on expert advice/inspection the parts wernt moody chinese shit.


Edited by ELVIS - 23 May 11 at 19:41
Www.justgiving.com/ELVIS-SUMMERS

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 11 at 19:50
As if by magic
 
 
 Recognise banner at bottom of page?
 
£51 for set of 4 ? bet they are proper ace
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 11 at 21:33
was tempted with those nozzles myself. feedback not brill.
it`s a big round cage but there`s too many animals in it for my liking.to address this ring lee on 07977 765818.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canada LT28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 11 at 21:41
More horror stories from this Prothe than good ones. Dammit, where is my satelite based nuc.....honey, have you seen my satelite nuc controller? Got another purveyer of chinese shit to get rid of......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xriss55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 11 at 06:30
whats wrong with ur lt pump monsho? i also have one im looking to get tweaked alothogh it not on my van @ present
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 11 at 06:49
Its just not quite 'right'. It all works, and it flys at higher revs, but just isn't delivering fuelling low down, combined with my bigger turbo its not very 'torqey' - not what a TDi should be like.

Think i need the cam plate from 1Z pump in there, but think im just going to save up and send to someone who knows their shizzle...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xriss55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 07:49
maybe you need to turn in the starwheel springseat under the aneroid..all the way a couple turns..allows for faster boost build,also the gov spring will need tweeking
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 08:59
Yep, have done a fair bit of that sort of tweaking, gov spring has been changed, think there are a couple of fundamentals wrong, cam plate for example, that need sorting before its spot on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 11:26
12mm head and a 3.5mm {tdi} camplate  that will move a massive amount of fuel do you really need that amount ?
 
If you got problems of a lack of torque low down i canot see it being down to the lack of fuel when you are using a12mm pump [ maybe a lack due to the govoner ] I would be looking at gov or dynamic timing advance not trying to provide more fuel


Edited by light - 28 May 11 at 11:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 18:19
Pfft, you obviously know a load more than me

Basically I need someone who knows what they're doing to sort it, hence wanting to send it over to giles in Canada, seems to have an excellent rep. It will cost a bit though. Don't know of anyone in the uk who will know what to do straight off, unles anyone has a recommendation?

I'm sure, as you say it's to do with the advance / timing, just dunno what is needed to fettle it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 20:06
You say you have changed the governor spring what spring have you put in there ,is it a softer spring or have you used a stiffer spring to delay the point the governor starts to pull back fueling?
The governor is what determines how much fuel the engine receives for a given load/throttle position/engine rpm  so it would suggest to me that, that may well be the problem
The trouble I have always found using TDI pumps off bigger engines usually relate to the other end of the rev range {higher} as the bigger engines 2.5 upwards are normally designed to produce there power lower in the rev range {was that the reason you changed the gov spring in the first place?}
Something I have always thought about but have not yet tried is using a lift pump with original mech tdi pumps as I have yet to come across a mech direct injection engine without one  and as the IP  has the same capability to lift fuel there must be another reason just about every manufacture use a lift pump with the Bosch mech DI pumps
And as the dynamic timing is controlled by internal pump pressure{and the timing has a influnce on the govoner to} and the use of a lift pump would have to have some bearing on that processes 

Edited by light - 28 May 11 at 20:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 20:34
To be honest I'm not sure, it was done at Simon's, doing changes he thought would help, we did it years ago and have never got round to investigating more...

Where abouts are you fella?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 20:34
Presume the lift pump is an extra pump which pulls the fuel through from the tank, taking that job off the main pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 11 at 22:14
some early tdi passats had no lift pump...but then all off a sudden they were fitted with them, i dont know why but i wondered about many times in the past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 11 at 12:25
Originally posted by monsho monsho wrote:

Presume the lift pump is an extra pump which pulls the fuel through from the tank, taking that job off the main pump?
That is the obvious answer I agree but why do they fit them to just about all the mechanical Bosch pumped di engines  {not to sure about vwLT 2.8?} and virtually no IDI engines ,when the vane pump within the injection pumps have the same capability  of lifting the fuel from the tank to the pump so why go to the expense of fitting one ?
 
 
 
What I am starting to think is it may well be some thing to do with the internal pressure the pump needs to produce the required injection pressure { fitting a higher pressure lift pump is a common mod on big HP eTDI`s} and if that is the case the timing advance {which is operated through pressure increase/decrease on mechanical pumps } would be designed around higher internal pump pressure which you will not achieve at lower rpm without the use of a lift pump
 
 
 
The way I`m looking at it is  like this if the vane pump produced a pressure of say 20psi @1000rpm {internal pump pressure} where the pressure of the feed to the vane pump {fuel feed line}  is likely to be 0 psi or even a negative figure as it is sucking fuel from the tank which would require a vacuum?
 
 
 
So that 20psi @  1000rpm  would equate to a 20 fold increase in pressure ,now if you increase the pressure of the supply to the vane pump with a lift pump to say 3psi my limited knowledge of hydraulics tells me the pressure the same vane pump would now produce a internal pump pressure of 60psi @1000rpm {a 20 fold increase of the supply pressure} P.S the number`s that are used are just for a  example
 
 
 
If the above is right { could be wrong as I have a limited knowledge of hydraulics} the pumps timing advance system would not work properly with much lower internal pressure
I have used a few pacifically designed DI pumps Land Rover/Iveco/Perkins without lift pumps with satisfactory results but have always felt that there was something slightly amiss and like a lot problems with engines the answer may well be a simple one 
 
 


Edited by light - 29 May 11 at 13:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 11 at 20:19
Interesting stuff...I wasn't questioning it, just asking if that was their actual purpose.

Would something like this be worth trying?


Not much money to outlay as an experiment


Edited by monsho - 29 May 11 at 20:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 11 at 21:20
if it will pump diesel i would of said it will do fine, had one on a mini once!
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