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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcguyver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 15:49
If you're not charging the battery on board the van, there is much less risk of gas leakage, however, there can be a gas build up if there is a short circuit in the system even when not recharging.
 
Power packs usually have their own fuses but this is usually there to protect the pack from overloading. I would still fit a main fuse (the carrier and fuse will be a few quid max) and individual fuses for each circuit (zig unit). The purpose of the individual fuses is to protect the lower rated circuits from overload even when the overload current is too low to blow the main fuse.  
 
mac
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackBeltBlakey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 16:08
Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:

I've just been to a festival this weekend, first time sleeping in the van Big smile
I ran out of time to get everything fully sorted so a split charge system wasn't possible. I've got a 12v socket near the sliding door and switch on the dash. I plugged the fridge into this for the drive up and then switched over to a non-wired in 12v leisure battery when we arrived on site and the engine was off. I have a Waeco CF-50 and it ran from Thursday 8pm to Monday lunchtime off of one 100Amp leisure battery, keeping an internal temp of 2 degrees. Very impressed!
Luckily I took the jump cables as by Monday morning the van battery was toast from the internal lights being on. As I wasn't sure how long the leisure would last when running the fridge I'd taken a spare so I used that to jump the van.
The battery will only give off toxic/explosive gases when they are being charged.....if it aint hooked up, one less thing to worry about.

 
So am I right in thinking you just dumped your leisure battery in the back of the van and hooked the fridge up to it for 3-4 days?  No other external bits and pieces required or used?
 
If so, which battery do you have?
 
And I'm guessing mac (correctly) will tell you that you should have had a fuse in there somewhere, right?  Smile
 
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5-KTM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 16:29
Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:

I've just been to a festival this weekend, first time sleeping in the van Big smile
I ran out of time to get everything fully sorted so a split charge system wasn't possible. I've got a 12v socket near the sliding door and switch on the dash. I plugged the fridge into this for the drive up and then switched over to a non-wired in 12v leisure battery when we arrived on site and the engine was off. I have a Waeco CF-50 and it ran from Thursday 8pm to Monday lunchtime off of one 100Amp leisure battery, keeping an internal temp of 2 degrees. Very impressed!
Luckily I took the jump cables as by Monday morning the van battery was toast from the internal lights being on. As I wasn't sure how long the leisure would last when running the fridge I'd taken a spare so I used that to jump the van.
The battery will only give off toxic/explosive gases when they are being charged.....if it aint hooked up, one less thing to worry about.

 
So am I right in thinking you just dumped your leisure battery in the back of the van and hooked the fridge up to it for 3-4 days?  No other external bits and pieces required or used?
 
If so, which battery do you have?
 
And I'm guessing mac (correctly) will tell you that you should have had a fuse in there somewhere, right?  Smile
 
Cheers


Absolutely correct for the first part. I also bought a cigarette lighter socket type thing on a 1m wire and fitted an inline fuse to it. I then ran the fridge and 12v shower off it for the weekend.

I bought a 100 amp leisure battery from my local camping/caravan shop, made by Numax.

I will be installing a split charge system in the next week or so, fitting a decent inverter, possibly a 240v hook up option, putting it all into a box and wiring it up. I will document it and post it on here when I do. Still just looking at all the options.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackBeltBlakey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 18:01
Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:


Absolutely correct for the first part. I also bought a cigarette lighter socket type thing on a 1m wire and fitted an inline fuse to it. I then ran the fridge and 12v shower off it for the weekend.

I bought a 100 amp leisure battery from my local camping/caravan shop, made by Numax.

I will be installing a split charge system in the next week or so, fitting a decent inverter, possibly a 240v hook up option, putting it all into a box and wiring it up. I will document it and post it on here when I do. Still just looking at all the options.
 
Fantastic. 
 
Any chance you can post links to the bits you've bought so far please?   It sounds like you are already one step ahead of where I want to be and I can probably learn a lot from the steps you're taking.   It also sounds like you are doing the same things I could do, like taking the leisure battery along to run your fridge without having it wired into the rest of the electricals as a first step.
 
Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5-KTM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 18:45
Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

 
Fantastic. 
 
Any chance you can post links to the bits you've bought so far please?   It sounds like you are already one step ahead of where I want to be and I can probably learn a lot from the steps you're taking.   It also sounds like you are doing the same things I could do, like taking the leisure battery along to run your fridge without having it wired into the rest of the electricals as a first step.
 
Cheers!
Blakey


No problem. I've already been looking at buying a second leisure battery as I intend to run some fairly heavy duty luxuries off the inverter, these ones off ebay look pretty good to me here

Just had a quick search for a 12v socket like the one I have and found these that look loads better
Combined with some of these
And of course one or two of these
Or one like this for a quick and easy connection -  like this

I'm by no means an expert, there are plenty of more knowledgeable guys here on the forum, but I don't think you can go too far wrong with some common sense and asking a few questions on here as you go.  Kitting out your camper is a personal and constant development as you encounter new 'wants' whilst your away. Use it and enjoy it! Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 19:28
Originally posted by mcguyver mcguyver wrote:

You're right Energy, the lights would have to be manually switched on. My original thinking was to leave the cab light connected to the van battery and treating the rear lights like a converted camper, running from the Zig/leisure battery. This isn't ideal though as BBB may be using the van more as an MPV, which would make having to get in the back to switch the lights on a bit of a pain.
 
There could be a way of connecting the lights so that when the doors are opened, the feed comes from the convenience module, but when you are sat in the back watching tv (for example), the lights would be powered from the leisure battery. This could be accomplished by something as simple as a two way switch, however, would you always remember to switch over to the leisure battery? I suppose you could add a timer that switches power sources after say five minutes, but then you've still got to switch back when you want to return to open door operation.
 
Another way might be to power the convenience module from the leisure battery, which, of course is being recharged by the smart charger, but that could cause glitches in the vans control systems.
 
You could have the cab light and a Caravelle style step light connected the the van battery for illumination to get in and out, and then connect the rear lights to the leisure battery as before.
 
ECB, doesn't the door step light go off after a while, like the roof ones, even when a door is open?
My rooflights switch off after a while (not really noticed how long).
 
mac
 
Easiest way I can think of to sort the rear lights would be to put the supply to the convenience module through a split charge relay (this) meaning that when the van is running the module is powered via the van battery (same as standard) but when stopped the relay drops out and the module is then powered from the leisure battery
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcguyver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 20:06
Good thinking Energy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackvanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 20:58
Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

Originally posted by mcguyver mcguyver wrote:

You're right Energy, the lights would have to be manually switched on. My original thinking was to leave the cab light connected to the van battery and treating the rear lights like a converted camper, running from the Zig/leisure battery. This isn't ideal though as BBB may be using the van more as an MPV, which would make having to get in the back to switch the lights on a bit of a pain.
 
There could be a way of connecting the lights so that when the doors are opened, the feed comes from the convenience module, but when you are sat in the back watching tv (for example), the lights would be powered from the leisure battery. This could be accomplished by something as simple as a two way switch, however, would you always remember to switch over to the leisure battery? I suppose you could add a timer that switches power sources after say five minutes, but then you've still got to switch back when you want to return to open door operation.
 
Another way might be to power the convenience module from the leisure battery, which, of course is being recharged by the smart charger, but that could cause glitches in the vans control systems.
 
You could have the cab light and a Caravelle style step light connected the the van battery for illumination to get in and out, and then connect the rear lights to the leisure battery as before.
 
ECB, doesn't the door step light go off after a while, like the roof ones, even when a door is open?
My rooflights switch off after a while (not really noticed how long).
 
mac
 
Easiest way I can think of to sort the rear lights would be to put the supply to the convenience module through a split charge relay (this) meaning that when the van is running the module is powered via the van battery (same as standard) but when stopped the relay drops out and the module is then powered from the leisure battery
 


standard 5 pin relay would do the job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackBeltBlakey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 21:19
Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:

I've already been looking at buying a second leisure battery as I intend to run some fairly heavy duty luxuries off the inverter, these ones off ebay look pretty good to me here

Just had a quick search for a 12v socket like the one I have and found these that look loads better
Combined with some of these
And of course one or two of these
Or one like this for a quick and easy connection -  like this
 
Okay, one question sprints to mind:  how would you charge this set up?   As far as I can see the battery doesn't have a charger built in, so how would you top it up - before you get to the stage of sticking it into the van's electrical system I mean?      I guess you'd need a spare charger, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 22:14
Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:

I've already been looking at buying a second leisure battery as I intend to run some fairly heavy duty luxuries off the inverter, these ones off ebay look pretty good to me here

Just had a quick search for a 12v socket like the one I have and found these that look loads better
Combined with some of these
And of course one or two of these
Or one like this for a quick and easy connection -  like this
 
Okay, one question sprints to mind:  how would you charge this set up?   As far as I can see the battery doesn't have a charger built in, so how would you top it up - before you get to the stage of sticking it into the van's electrical system I mean?      I guess you'd need a spare charger, right?
 
Regular battery charger like the one I hyperlinked in one of my earlier posts, you could simply charge the battery at home and then run it while camping until it dies or stick the charger on it while camping to keep it topped up (provided mains is available)
 
This could be a temporary answer for you until you bolt it all together properly, plus all the components you use for the temporary install will carry over when you do the permanent job
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackBeltBlakey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 22:24
Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

Regular battery charger like the one I hyperlinked in one of my earlier posts, you could simply charge the battery at home and then run it while camping until it dies or stick the charger on it while camping to keep it topped up (provided mains is available)
 
This could be a temporary answer for you until you bolt it all together properly, plus all the components you use for the temporary install will carry over when you do the permanent job
 
Thanks again.   Time to start making a list of items and prices now I think....
 
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If I got a couple of THESE, for attaching to a Leisure Battery, how would I add a fuse in between?  What parts would I need?
 
Also, how many of them can I sensibly attach to one leisure battery (say THIS one as an example), at once?
 
And is there a "correct way" to attach the leads?  i.e. one colour before the other, or does it not matter as long as there is nothing plugged into the leads?
 
I think I'm going to look into buying a battery first (with these leads) plus the charger Energy suggested earlier.   That seems like a good start, and at least the battery and charger will be reusable.
 
Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 23:11
Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

If I got a couple of THESE, for attaching to a Leisure Battery, how would I add a fuse in between?  What parts would I need?
 
Also, how many of them can I sensibly attach to one leisure battery (say THIS one as an example), at once?
 
And is there a "correct way" to attach the leads?  i.e. one colour before the other, or does it not matter as long as there is nothing plugged into the leads?
 
I think I'm going to look into buying a battery first (with these leads) plus the charger Energy suggested earlier.   That seems like a good start, and at least the battery and charger will be reusable.
 
Cheers!
 
If you want to fuse it properly and run several 12v sockets then your best bet would be to connect to the battery with these (secure and quick release) then connect these to the clamps - they have inline fuses as standard
 
If one aint enough, double on up on the clamps cos each set will be fused independantly anyhow keeping everthing safe
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 09 at 23:18
Originally posted by blackvanman blackvanman wrote:

Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

Originally posted by mcguyver mcguyver wrote:

You're right Energy, the lights would have to be manually switched on. My original thinking was to leave the cab light connected to the van battery and treating the rear lights like a converted camper, running from the Zig/leisure battery. This isn't ideal though as BBB may be using the van more as an MPV, which would make having to get in the back to switch the lights on a bit of a pain.
 
There could be a way of connecting the lights so that when the doors are opened, the feed comes from the convenience module, but when you are sat in the back watching tv (for example), the lights would be powered from the leisure battery. This could be accomplished by something as simple as a two way switch, however, would you always remember to switch over to the leisure battery? I suppose you could add a timer that switches power sources after say five minutes, but then you've still got to switch back when you want to return to open door operation.
 
Another way might be to power the convenience module from the leisure battery, which, of course is being recharged by the smart charger, but that could cause glitches in the vans control systems.
 
You could have the cab light and a Caravelle style step light connected the the van battery for illumination to get in and out, and then connect the rear lights to the leisure battery as before.
 
ECB, doesn't the door step light go off after a while, like the roof ones, even when a door is open?
My rooflights switch off after a while (not really noticed how long).
 
mac
 
Easiest way I can think of to sort the rear lights would be to put the supply to the convenience module through a split charge relay (this) meaning that when the van is running the module is powered via the van battery (same as standard) but when stopped the relay drops out and the module is then powered from the leisure battery
 


standard 5 pin relay would do the job.
 
True - but this would be easier/more simple to fit.......
 


Edited by energysolutions - 11 Aug 09 at 23:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackBeltBlakey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 09 at 10:07
Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

If you want to fuse it properly and run several 12v sockets then your best bet would be to connect to the battery with these (secure and quick release) then connect these to the clamps - they have inline fuses as standard
 
If one aint enough, double on up on the clamps cos each set will be fused independantly anyhow keeping everthing safe
 
 
Sorry, bit confused now.
 
Are you saying that the complete solution is to:
 
1.  Take a leisure battery and stick it in the back of the van.
2.  Add quick release terminals to the battery.   (why do you need these incidentally?)
3.  Attach water proof sockets to the above terminals.
 
Or are the clamps we were talking of earlier still in the equation?
 
 
 
As a separate question:  I understand how the battery charger can be used to recharge the battery when back home or how it can be used to power and charge the battery if we are near a mains when camping - assuming I have the relevant power cable to provide mains power inside the van.   However, one thing I'm not certain of.   Longer term when I add the leisure battery into the full electrical circuit of the van, using a split charge relay, how will the charger then fit into the equation?  
 
 
Thanks for the ongoing help!
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Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

If you want to fuse it properly and run several 12v sockets then your best bet would be to connect to the battery with these (secure and quick release) then connect these to the clamps - they have inline fuses as standard
 
If one aint enough, double on up on the clamps cos each set will be fused independantly anyhow keeping everthing safe
 
 
Sorry, bit confused now.
 
Are you saying that the complete solution is to:
 
1.  Take a leisure battery and stick it in the back of the van.
2.  Add quick release terminals to the battery.   (why do you need these incidentally?)
3.  Attach water proof sockets to the above terminals.
 
Or are the clamps we were talking of earlier still in the equation?
 
 
 
As a separate question:  I understand how the battery charger can be used to recharge the battery when back home or how it can be used to power and charge the battery if we are near a mains when camping - assuming I have the relevant power cable to provide mains power inside the van.   However, one thing I'm not certain of.   Longer term when I add the leisure battery into the full electrical circuit of the van, using a split charge relay, how will the charger then fit into the equation?  
 
 
Thanks for the ongoing help!


You won't need it, as it will be charged from the split charge relay when your driving around Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 09 at 10:39
Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

If you want to fuse it properly and run several 12v sockets then your best bet would be to connect to the battery with these (secure and quick release) then connect these to the clamps - they have inline fuses as standard
 
If one aint enough, double on up on the clamps cos each set will be fused independantly anyhow keeping everthing safe
 
 
Sorry, bit confused now.
 
Are you saying that the complete solution is to:
 
1.  Take a leisure battery and stick it in the back of the van.
2.  Add quick release terminals to the battery.   (why do you need these incidentally?)
3.  Attach water proof sockets to the above terminals.
 
Or are the clamps we were talking of earlier still in the equation?
 
 
 
As a separate question:  I understand how the battery charger can be used to recharge the battery when back home or how it can be used to power and charge the battery if we are near a mains when camping - assuming I have the relevant power cable to provide mains power inside the van.   However, one thing I'm not certain of.   Longer term when I add the leisure battery into the full electrical circuit of the van, using a split charge relay, how will the charger then fit into the equation?  
 
 
Thanks for the ongoing help!
 
Those components could be used temporarily until you complete the full blown split charge install, plus they could be carried over at that point
 
1.  Take a leisure battery and stick it in the back of the van. - YES
2.  Add quick release terminals to the battery.   (why do you need these incidentally?) -Yes, these are quick release for easy removal (no tools required) but much more secure than the crocodile style clips in your link
3.  Attach water proof sockets to the above terminals. - Yes (dont have to be waterproof), those will connect directly to the quick release terminals and are safe as they have inline fuses installed
 
Or are the clamps we were talking of earlier still in the equation? - No, personally I dont like them, easily knocked off, lots of exposed copper on the jaws to accidently touch any metal bodywork and short out, plus it would be tricky to fit more than one set to a battery. The quick release style are more secure, simple to remove and can easily accept several wires being connected to them (ie 2+ 12v sockets)
 
The charger will connect onsite by simply plugging it in via your power cable (16A blue socket to 13A adaptor shown in your link) and attaching to the battery with the alligator clamps (ok for temporary as the jaws on the type i linked to for example are very strong and well insulated) or by direct connection to the clamps (better for long term, ie when you install the full split charge) 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackBeltBlakey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 09 at 10:39
Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:

You won't need it, as it will be charged from the split charge relay when your driving around Smile
 
Okay, I get that bit but could it be built into the system somehow so that when you plugged into the mains it used the charger to charge both batteries and also power anything attached to them?
 
I'm just trying not to spend a lot of money on stuff which I'll then have to resell.  If as much as possible gets used in the long term project of getting everything built in and having a mains hookup, then so much the better...
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 09 at 10:42
Originally posted by T5-KTM T5-KTM wrote:

Originally posted by BlackBeltBlakey BlackBeltBlakey wrote:

Originally posted by energysolutions energysolutions wrote:

If you want to fuse it properly and run several 12v sockets then your best bet would be to connect to the battery with these (secure and quick release) then connect these to the clamps - they have inline fuses as standard
 
If one aint enough, double on up on the clamps cos each set will be fused independantly anyhow keeping everthing safe
 
 
Sorry, bit confused now.
 
Are you saying that the complete solution is to:
 
1.  Take a leisure battery and stick it in the back of the van.
2.  Add quick release terminals to the battery.   (why do you need these incidentally?)
3.  Attach water proof sockets to the above terminals.
 
Or are the clamps we were talking of earlier still in the equation?
 
 
 
As a separate question:  I understand how the battery charger can be used to recharge the battery when back home or how it can be used to power and charge the battery if we are near a mains when camping - assuming I have the relevant power cable to provide mains power inside the van.   However, one thing I'm not certain of.   Longer term when I add the leisure battery into the full electrical circuit of the van, using a split charge relay, how will the charger then fit into the equation?  
 
 
Thanks for the ongoing help!


You won't need it, as it will be charged from the split charge relay when your driving around Smile
 
True, but initially this is as a temporary measure to get up and running with a split charge being installed in the future
 
A charger would be an advantage if parked up for several days (provided mains power was available)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5-KTM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 09 at 10:48
You are obviously the expert on this and I'm just confusing things further for mr BBB

My suggestions were for a quick up and running solution - like I'd done myself.
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