Instrument cluster goes on and off when slight rai

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   Hi, dashboard electrics are normally fine and no issues. However as soon as their is slight rain the instrument cluster goes haywire, every gauge and light goes off then on ... repeat ! Issue only happens when it rains and even when it's very light rain , pretty much as soon as moisture hits the windscreen. There does appear to be any water getting into cabin or onto dash electrics. Any ideas it's driving me bonkers. 

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p7ufo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 Aug 09 Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote p7ufo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Instrument cluster goes on and off when slight rai Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 07:17
	Hi, dashboard electrics are normally fine and no issues. However as soon as their is slight rain the instrument cluster goes haywire, every gauge and light goes off then on ... repeat ! Issue only happens when it rains and even when it's very light rain , pretty much as soon as moisture hits the windscreen. There does appear to be any water getting into cabin or onto dash electrics. Any ideas it's driving me bonkers.

gregozedobe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266	Post Options Post Reply Quote gregozedobe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 10:34
	Have you looked at the fusebox under the bonnet ? Not just the fuses, but all the connections as well.

p7ufo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 Aug 09 Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote p7ufo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 11:06
	yeah, had a good look to see if there were any issues, couldn't see anything obvious. Cleared out all of the drain holes and sealed the fuse box area to be certain that water was not getting in there. But still the slightest bit of moisture on windscreen and instrument cluster goes off and on.

gregozedobe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266	Post Options Post Reply Quote gregozedobe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 04:58
	Sounds like corrosion on a connection somewhere to me. OK when perfectly dry, but as soon as there is some humidity around the resistance increases. So possibly not actual water getting in somewhere it shouldn't.

T5 TDI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687	Post Options Post Reply Quote T5 TDI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 09:32
	It's worth checking any earths you can find. There should be one down by the battery. I think there is one each side under the dash possibly in the kick panel and one under the passenger seat. Mastertech has reported loom chafing behind the dash on some vans. Another possibility is that it's the start of the well known ABS pump problems which can cause weird dash problems. You could do with a diagnostic check to see if anything shows up. Good luck anyway, don't forget to let us know what the fix was when you get there!
	2004 2.5 174

p7ufo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 Aug 09 Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote p7ufo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 19:42
	Many thanks for the suggestions. I have called a number of vw specialist garages and it's a new one for them. Some good ideas above and I will press on with the long process of trying to find the issue. The bizarre aspect is that it only happens with rain, and generally fine rain ! I have had the windscreen replaced and I have even been wondering if there is some crazy connection to the fact that the new one has an aerial in it and the last one didn't.

T5 TDI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687	Post Options Post Reply Quote T5 TDI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 21:25
	You haven't said what van you have. You have more chance of accurate/sensible answers if you give more details. You really do need to get it on diagnostics. Make sure they do a full scan of all the available controllers and get a print out or make a note of any codes. The rain thing is really odd. Unless you have rain sensing wipers I can't think what could cause such immediate problems in light rain. Having said that.. on my old '04 (owned since new) if I leave the drivers door open even in light rain the electric windows temporarily lose their one touch open/close feature. I'm sure it must be just the switch getting damp because there is no time for the window motor/controller to get wet. It doesn't really bother me (it just reminds me not to leave the door open) and it has reliably done this for years now without the switch failing as you might expect.
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Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 16 at 13:28
	So, two years ago I had the dreaded ABS/ECU issue and had it sent away to recondition. The dash over a few days started lighting up like a christmas tree! All the codes that were read were actually wrong so be careful! A few days a go I was driving along and I got a warning chime. I also noticed the cruise control light went off too. I pulled over, switched off, restarted and off I went, no warnings and cruise back on. About 4 miles up the road BING!!! Every light came on, I nursed it home. I have a cheap code reader but it wont even connect. On top the van now won't start!! It fires up but wont run. Immobiliser issue I think?? If so it's a dash clock cluster rebuild for me Any other ideas people of the yard?? Maybe ABS ecu again??
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!

T5 TDI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687	Post Options Post Reply Quote T5 TDI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 16 at 19:51
	If it starts and then dies almost immediately it's almost certainly an immobiliser issue. The dash is linked to the the immobiliser. So are other things but I can't think what would put all the lights on the dash and affect the immob also.
	2004 2.5 174

Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 16 at 07:12
	It's going in next week, this is too much for me! I'm finally at the end of my VW Elastic! She's going up for sale after this. I'll report back hopefully with the fix!
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!

Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Sep 16 at 13:57
	Thanks to some help from you guys.....Quick update. So, it was a bit of a fuck knows diagnosis but the hunch was clock cluster/ imobiliser. The garage were helpful but I could tell, he didn't really want the job, funny that, last time my ABS ECU went another garage was the same, dickheads, don't they know this ruins reputations? If my wifes 'simple' mercedes needed a fix I'm more likely to now say, 'don't go there'! Knobbers. Anyway, getting the clocks out wasn't that hard, if I had to do it again it'd be a 20 min job. All little torx screws,all the same size, just fiddley as you'd expect. The clock are off for testing/ repair now so I'll feed back next week!
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!

gregozedobe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266	Post Options Post Reply Quote gregozedobe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 16 at 02:27
	I often find that the first time you do a job like that it takes ages to figure out how to do it, but if you had to do it a second time it would be much, much quicker (if you can still remember how it goes). Fingers crossed the fix for your clocks is something simple like an obvious dry solder joint or corrosion in a connector. Edited by gregozedobe - 09 Sep 16 at 02:27

T5 TDI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687	Post Options Post Reply Quote T5 TDI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 16 at 08:27
	Hopefully that will be it. Thanks for the update
	2004 2.5 174

Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 16 at 13:56
	Got my cluster back today, no faults found, I guess this is good news if when I fit them the problem is gone, however if it doesn't what next? I really loathe a main dealer but maybe my options are becoming slim? I'm up to £200 already and still nowhere near getting sorted! So, any ideas?
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!

gregozedobe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266	Post Options Post Reply Quote gregozedobe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 16 at 01:32
	If you are still having problems after re-installing one suggestion is to check the voltage - if the voltage regulator (on the alternator) is faulty and allows the voltage to get too high (IIRC above 14.4V - 14.7V) then this can cause all sorts of weird symptoms. But this sounds unlikely in your case if the engine is cutting out after running for only a few seconds (unless it was doing this before and the high voltage has done permanent damage). As T5 TDI said earlier, this is what the immobiliser does (but mine displays an immobiliser error message when I try it with a key without a chip - but I can't remember exactly what the msg was). It would be worth checking the wiring loom in the dash while you have got the cluster out, looking particularly for any pinches where the wires might be cut through and shorting out. If it is still playing up after you put the dash cluster back in I'd be inclined to try and find a very good auto electrician who is good at diagnosing unusual VW electrical gremlins. Edited by gregozedobe - 16 Sep 16 at 01:36

Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 16 at 17:05
	Clocks back and in....same thing. I called the garage and he is sure the immobiliser could be the fault, I declined a cluster rebuild as there were no faults according to the testing firm, why would I spend another £250!! They did say this would defo rule out the clock cluster being the issue. I just don't know what to do next. The garage guy said bring it back for another look but I can't even get it to start now. If he still can't read any fault codes, he's down to guessing? I checked what I could see of the loom behind the clocks, it all looked brand new. I'm now wondering if I should have had it rebuilt, it's an option but I simply can't afford any more, I'm going to have to take it off the road for a few months. It drives me mad, It's done no work, clean as a whistle, only used for leisure and for the last 3 years I've only driven it once a week, I use my little moped for work!
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!

T5 TDI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687	Post Options Post Reply Quote T5 TDI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 16 at 22:05
	I'm not an expert with immobilizer stuff but did he he say there are no codes present in the instruments controller or just that he can't communicate with it? There is a big difference. The immobilizer function isn't confined to the cluster. If you can find someone locally with registered VCDS they can do a complete scan of all of the controllers your van has which is a good start. Some of them must be complaining if the van won't start. Edited by T5 TDI - 16 Sep 16 at 23:23
	2004 2.5 174

T5 TDI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vanorak Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687	Post Options Post Reply Quote T5 TDI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 16 at 23:15
	Just watched your vids. Although it's the immobilizer that is actually stopping the engine in the second one, all the other dash stuff shows that it's not a straightforward key type issue. If it was mine I'd be doing a scan first then looking for wiring problems especially between the conv unit under the seat (on yours) and the dash including all earths. I've just thought of someone who could help.. I'll pm ya.
	2004 2.5 174

Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 16 at 23:57
	He said no codes in the cluster, however the guy that diagnosed it said his VCDS could not communicate, some link error. There must be a reason the can bus link do da isn't working! QUOTE=T5 TDI] I'm not an expert with immobilizer stuff but did he he say there are no codes present in the instruments controller or just that he can't communicate with it? There is a big difference. The immobilizer function isn't confined to the cluster. If you can find someone locally with registered VCDS they can do a complete scan of all of the controllers your van has which is a good start. Some of them must be complaining if the van won't start. [/QUOTE]
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!

Dub4life Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Yardie Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dub4life Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 16 at 11:39
	Update So after going back to the garage the guy pulled up some vcds schematics and we started to look at relays and power supply. After replacing one relay we go some of the warning lights to disappear but the hunch was the power supply box under the steering was playing up. New one was about £400 so decided to fleabay one. Picked one up for £100 and when it comes in he's going to code it...fingers crossed it works. We are going to also change one of the big relays under the battery tray that possibly is intermittent but he reckons that if it was there would be no power at all. Anyway, Ill keep you posted.
	Motexion, not cheap plywood!