The Brick-yard Homepage Brickwerks
Forum Home Forum Home > LT, Crafter & Sprinter Section > LT2 and sprinter forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Immobiliser / Starting Issues
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Immobiliser / Starting Issues

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
cityslang View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 26 Jun 15
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cityslang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Immobiliser / Starting Issues
    Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 10:53
Hi, new member here. I've had my 2004 LT46 2.5 about three days.

But now I have a weird starting issue, that I'm hoping you guys can help with... sorry my first post is a request for help.

When I was looking round the van with the sell it seemed to start fine every time. However the dash board odometer was flashing as was a orange warning light, an almost closed circle. I asked about this and the seller said it was because the tacho had been removed. In my research I remember reading something about the flashing odometer and the tacho so I thought this sounded right and the circle thing made sense as a tacho warning symbol. 

When I got home I flicked through the manual and it said the symbol I'm seeing is in fact the immobiliser warning light. I was bit worried but the van had been starting fine so I thought I'd let sleeping dogs lay.

I was fiddling about with it last night trying to work out the night heater and getting the headlight working, so I had the ignition on, rear blower on, and headlights on for a about 20mins at different times. I didn't actually start the engine during this. When I went to finish I decided I'd shift the van a few foot. I tried to start it and it acted like the battery was dead. Starter motor running but turn very slowly and the engine itself not firing. I was a little worried that i could have killed the battery that quick but thought I'd leave what juice it had in it and try the next morning.

Next morning I went out and she fired straight up immediately and ran like a champ. I drove into work and figured I'd got away with it and the drive in would sort the battery. I parked up at work and just as I was getting out a friend was also arriving and wanted a bit of tour - particularly the rear lift. Given the experience the night before I thought it'd be best to have the engine so as to not kill the engine. So I went to restart the engine about 30 seconds after it had last ran. i.e. i know the battery is fine. It did the whole slow turn over non-starting thing, sounds exactly like the battery is dead but i know it's not. Which makes me think immobiliser.

I've since left it an hour and gone back out and she's started first turn of the key no issues. We're getting low on fuel but I'm a but worried that when I turn it off I'm going to get stuck with a non starting engine for few hours.

The single key I have has no electronics in it - I've open it up and checked.

I do have access to a laptop with VAG-COM on it and the cable. The cable I have works on golfs, passats and a phateon, will this be the right cable for my LT ? I had heard that maybe it wouldn't be but I wasnt sure that post was talking about my model of LT 96-06 or the older version. If the solution is likely to be in VAG can you give me some idea of what I'm looking for. My previous experience with VAG-Com has just been pulling fault codes and running the diagnostic tests.

It's possible my problem isnt immobiliser at all, it's not a hot fuel/cylinder start because the first time I experienced it the ignition had been on a while but the engine itself was stone cold. It's not cold start because it fires up great first thing... So I think it's electrical 

Any help or insight greatly appreciated 
Back to Top
wheresthatgonenow View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 May 14
Location: west midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheresthatgonenow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 11:24
Hi, welcome to forum,Handshake
i dont know if having tacho removed would cause the light to show, (orange light with nearly complete circle that is an arrow symbol),  i do know that if the battery has gone dead flat at some time that will put the light on, also if you put the wrong key in the ignition and it turns that will do it as well, your vag com should turn this light off, but, you need a special lead that has the round end, they are available on  ebay, it is the same as mercedes sprinter one, thinks about £14 or so, when you get the lead and all set up read the codes (if any) first before turn light off.
The slow starting problem sounds like either a dirty connection on battery (either side  -/+) or on the starter itself, or the starter maybe coming to its end,
something odd though about no circuitry inside the key?, this should have some so the reciever ring on the ignition switch knows its the right key and lets the engine fire up, beware with this one thou, sometimes there`s a key tapped to the ignition switch so any key that will turn the switch can start the van (need to take cowl round ignition off to varify), if this has been done  it could cause a problem with non insurance if something happens like van gets nicked,
one last point the van will still run start with that light flashing and could be the key thats caused it besides the other points
Back to Top
cityslang View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 26 Jun 15
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cityslang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 12:20
Thanks for the quick reply, really helpful info esp the cable bit

I did just read about someone who's van had the transponder key taped to van in some way. When I found my key didnt have the electrics I was starting to think maybe the  same has been done to mine.

For a bit of added info, my van is a former NHS PTS ambulance. It has since been released by the NHS and in the release process they decommission the kit. I'm wondering if as part of the initial conversion - which was was done to a very high standard - they remove the immobiliser. Alternatively it could be when it was decommission - which I think they've got a third party to do as it all been done very crudely, chopped wires etc - they've chosen to do this transponder key thing.

Is this the cable I'm looking for (ebay item 400595734740 ) from memory the VAG-Com connector i've got is the like the rectangular end, i'm assuming I can stick that cable on the end to pop into the Merc shaped hole.

Just to complicate matters further, I've a snake pit of connectors between the driver and passenger seat, two of which are clearly for a secondary battery. The rest of the cable are Cat5 data cables and BNC connectors of varying sizes. I'm wondering if the secondary battery cables are getting involved and causing some form of earth.

From what you've said I'm assuming when the immobiliser is immobilising the starter won't turn at all - hence your think the slow crank to no start is a battery connection issue not the immobliser

I bought this van because my last van was "too much of a project" I hope this one isnt going the same way...


Edited by cityslang - 26 Jun 15 at 12:21
Back to Top
wheresthatgonenow View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 May 14
Location: west midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheresthatgonenow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 13:25
yes thats the right cable, its come down in price as well, before you order check yours is the round pin as yours is the twin wheel, should be the same (location is passenger side by bonnet pull,

the immobiliser if i recall right will let you turn engine over but not start, turns at normal speed, the fact you have a blank key (no elecs) wouls suggest the chip is somewhere close by the switch, if you have only one key get another cut soon, if the key fits the door lock`s chances are its what came as original as ign lock is the same so you dont want to lose the key, 

mine turns over a bit slow first thing but mine is due to starter getting tired, but she stills catches on first full turn,
 you have the five pot engine (2.5ltr) and so long as belts and oil + filter are changed they are a damn robust long lasting van, 
if you look on the inside of the fuse cover (under steering column) you will find a sticker, this is the vans build info ref chassie No,  engine , g/box, axle, colour trim, type etc, usefull for part oredering,
parts new are pretty cheap new and available
Back to Top
wheresthatgonenow View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 May 14
Location: west midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheresthatgonenow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 13:30
if you post a Q and get no answer for a while its not because your being ignored, its that there are not many lt 2 owners here, (numbers are growing) but some one will chip in eventually, 
Back to Top
cityslang View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 26 Jun 15
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cityslang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 13:31
OH God, I've just looked for the port and yes its the circular type. Bad news is there's a whole different snake pit of chopped up wires down there too... 
Back to Top
wheresthatgonenow View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 May 14
Location: west midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheresthatgonenow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 13:54
if you look under the bonnet where the port exits from the cab, if lucks on your side the loom to the port should be intact, who ever fitted past equipment may have used this exit hole to run an old loom for the equipment, well i hope the port loom is not chopped about, you may find some black stickt toffe like putty there as well, this is normal its not something melting, what ever the outcome is you must be able to connect to the port when you have the lead so as to read any codes you may or may not have, i have a workshop manual here if you need some info and i can find it
Back to Top
wheresthatgonenow View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 May 14
Location: west midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheresthatgonenow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 13:57
oh just remembered something else rgds the orange light, if you are to charge the batt best to disconnect earth as using a charger can put the light on as well, 
Back to Top
cityslang View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 26 Jun 15
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cityslang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 14:04
I'll get the lead off E-bayand see what the laptop reckons of it all and take it from there.

I'm a classic car/motorbike man myself all this computers shiz is more like my work than my hobbies !

Thanks for all your help so far.
Back to Top
jason k View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
twinklerims

Joined: 14 Jan 05
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 15919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jason k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 15 at 21:16
It's an immobiliser warning light, very common and easily reset on vagcom with the merc conversion lead, if you were nearby I'd do it for you.
However I can't see this causing the problem you're expexperiencing.
Get it on vagcom and scan it.
Bcs shallowest surf award winner 2006
camperjam 2011 chug and tug team member
aberdare. south wales
newest member of karmann korner
no longer the only moderator to manage to ban himself



Back to Top
cityslang View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 26 Jun 15
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cityslang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 15 at 11:32
Hi All,

Thanks for the replies. I'd just thought i'd drop an update to the above as it's got a lot worse but is now "solved".

It got worse: 

The long starting got a bit worse taking longer and sounding less and less it was actually going to start at all - I did find it was more likely to start if I depressed the clutch halfway through. Then it got really weird, I drove on the motorway for 2hrs then through a city and parked up for about 1min. When i tried to restart she didnt have enough to even turn the engine over. Thankfully the person I was meeting gave me a jump start and away she went. Obviously the drive should have fully charged the battery and engine should have been warm so its job was even easier. Despite this it had nothing to give.

I put a multi-meter across the battery with the engine running and saw 14.7v which sounded about right - a touch high if anything. When the engine was off and cold the battery was showing 13ish volts. I thought maybe it was a one off but then it did exactly the same thing a few days later - admittedly with a shorter drive. This was more of a pain because where it was meant that I couldn't get a car to it to jump start it. Thankfully a friend had a battery boaster pack and that managed to spin her over.

For the solution I decided just to bite the bullet and bang a new expensive battery in and see what that did. I got the higher capacity on offer at halfords - it had both more amp/hours and a higher cranking rate. Weirdly it only helped a bit initially, cut the starting time in half but still long enough to make think it wasn't going to catch. Then over the course of the next few days it just got better and better and by the end of the weekend was starting perfectly most time with maybe 1 in 6 being a dodgy one. I don't know if that's standard for a battery or not.

I think i said earlier that my van has the wiring for a secondary battery between the driver and passenger seats in the cab. I assumed this was for a "leisure" for the computer etc. It took the same size battery as the engine bay item, so I thought why not stick the old battery in there - it was doing nothing otherwise. I can't quite work out if this battery wiring has a charge management system or it's fully linked to the main battery and they're working together. Either way this solved the 1/6 difficult starts as well.

So long story short, new battery. Old battery moved to the empty aux battery slot and we're fully working - although still with a flashing imboslier thing.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

The WebThis site