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Onefut View Drop Down
Yardie
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to replace Water Pump UPDATED
    Posted: 07 Apr 08 at 22:35
I just spent hours puttin this thread together an sortin pictures an stuff an then some how lost it

I have managed to resurrect the text but not the pictures so i am posting it an will edit it in the next few days and insert pictures etc and finish off the post

sorry for the wait folks but im well pissed off at the mo havin spent so long on it
ill be back as Arnie says

Wel folks here is the eagerly awaited waterpump replacement thread
insert your own drum roll here

first thing you need to do is make sure you have one of these


an one of these is usefull i had to tidy mine out first


An a Glamorous assistant to bring tea, Coffee an Cake


Also good to make sure you have all the neccessary parts to do the job. ie. Oil, oil filter, waterpump, coolant/antifreeze, etc.


The Shuttle wont fit in my Garage so i had to use a tarporline with eyelets and hammered in some nails to the wooden door frame so i cud clip the tarporline on and drape it over the front of the van when it rained.
Which it didnt do to much of fortunatly

I gave it an oil change whilst i was at it so ill include those destrucions too Wink

Firstly let me say this is by no means the definitive answer and just the way i did it. So i cannot an will not be held responsible if u do it this way and summat happens other than whats meant to or you cock it up or if ive missed summat out.

If you have access to elsawin then this may help but to be honest it wasnt as much help as i thought it wud be, maybe thats coz i dunno how to use it, not that i have Elsawin or Etka of course.

this isnt the order i did it but how i wud do it if i did it again.
here we go then

warm the car up so the oil runs freely
remove the sump guard


Assembly overview - noise insulation


     
1 -      Noise insulation
q        Removal:
�       Remove bolts -2- and pull noise insulation -1- out in -direction of arrows-.
2 -       Bolt
q        Qty. 6
q        Specified torque: 12 Nm

Remove the oil filler cap & then the sump plug and drain the old oil into a suitable container,

I use a washing up bowl as it holds quiet a lot of fluid


once drained put the drain plug back in
I left tightening it till the end as i removed it again and drained out the last few drops of old oil.

jack up the van on the front right side (or full frontal....oooer missus) and remove the front right wheel not forgetting to loosen the wheel nuts before jacking up, (not that i've ever done that of course)
remember to chock the wheels and support the van with suitable axle stands or similar.
remove the plastic inner wheel cover, you'll find out why later.


there are 13 star tox (vt-25) head screws and one 8mm head one that hold it in place
Assembly overview - front wheel housing liner


1 -       Wheel housing liner
q        Material: PP/EPDM
2 -       Spreader nut
q        Qty. 3
3 -       Bolt
q        Specified torque 3.8 Nm
4 -       Bolt
q        Qty. 11
q        Specified torque 2 Nm

the coolant shud have cooled down by now (but check as you dont want to be scalded)
as suggested by someone on here i clamped off the heater pipes

i used mole grips and some copper pipe flattened off and placed either side of the pipes so as not to damage them


Incidentaly does anyone know what this little filter is for




so youll need to get under the and locate the bottom coolant pipe

Draining
�       Open cap on coolant expansion tank.
WARNING
Hot steam may escape when expansion tank is opened. Place cloth over cap and open with caution.
�       Remove noise insulation.
              
�       To drain coolant, pull coolant hose -1- off radiator.

Note
Follow disposal regulations for coolant!
             N19-10021

Undo the retaining spring clip, I used 7" long nose pliers but would recommend longer ones, I also used a screw driver to help move the clip back once i had compressed it.
You'll need another bowl for this task:
remove the cap from the coolant expansion tank and get under the van. Now using a long flat head screwdriver i prised back the hose and pulled it off the Radiator
at this point coolant will spew out so make sure you are out of the way and a bowl is there to catch the coolant.

next job remove the expansion vessel, elsa says to undo an move out of the way but take it out as it will get in the way. (sorry no foto, i forgot)
its held on by 2 phillips head screws, there are 3 hoses connected to it and youll need big pliers or some grips to compress the retaining clips

once this is removed you need to remove the charged air hose




Mine was a bit oily



can anyone tell me if this is normal or not


Next you need to remove the Dipstick
which is retained at the top by a 6mm allen bolt (left arrow)

and a 5mm bolt a the bottom (red arrow).

the blue arrow shows the coolant drain plug and pipe which ill get to in a bit
once unbolted you need to (from the top) push the dipstick towards the rear of the van and lift it up, to remove it or you could pull it out from underneath i suppose!

Then you need to remove the drain tube off its spigot ( i used s tubby flat screwdriver) and undo the drain plug with a 6mm Allen key (see foto above for underneath shot)

 
Make sure you hold on to the copper washer!!!!

Now you can remove the cover off the waterpump

Its held in place by 3 bolts which can be removed using a 13mm socket. The cover then needs pulling off

according to VW what you are supposed to do now is remove the crank cover found here


using a special tool (extractor hook -10 - 221-.)
then Bolt special wrench -T10225- onto crankshaft.

then hold the special tool still with a wrench
then undo the coolant pump bolt like so

Then fit puller -T10221- as shown

and turn hexagon clockwise until the gear wheel can be removed from the pump.
Note
Engines of the initial production run had insufficient clearance behind the coolant pump gear wheel to fit puller -T10221-. In this case release the gear wheel by tapping lightly on the sides of the gear wheel with a hammer and copper drift.

Then you Unscrew coolant pump securing bolts -arrows-.


Then you Fit coolant pump puller -T10222- and turn its bolt clockwise until the puller first contacts the cylinder block as shown and subsequently pulls the coolant pump out.


But I did it this way as i had no special tools
i didnt bother pulling off the crank end cover as it was a swine to get at anyway an i was having dificulty

I used the following tools

Mole grips, socket (24mm i think), star tox tool in a 1/2" adaptor and a bent 1/2" slide bar. I had to drill out the center of the socket to fit the torx tool through.

Fit the socket over the nut,

Hold the pump in place with the slide bar and turn the socket anticlockwise to undo the nut

I had to really tighten the mole grips to stop em spinning on the socket.
Then as VW described i tapped the drive gear using a short drift and a hammer till it was loose.

It took a wee while as there is not much room to swing a hammer

Then i removed the pump retaining bolt with a VM-10 star torx tool.
One of em you can see the other is up at about 1 o'clock position. you can see it on the VW drawing above


The next bit took a bit of working out
I used a 2 legged puller and a dog bone off an FZ750 suspension linkage but you cud probably use some 5mm thick steel

I drilled a counter sink hole in the dog bone so the center point on the puller wouldn't move position.
Then I fitted the nut back on the end of the pump loosely an fitted the puller and dog bone like so

with the puller legs behind the pump nut

It took a wee while and I had to reposition the puller legs but it gently pulled the pump out.
Before i could fully remove the pump i had to remove the plastic cover on the gearbox casing just below the pump opening, you can see it in one of the foto's.
BE CAREFUL!!! do not drop anything in the hole as i think thats the torque converter in there an it cud get expensive if u do. maybe put a rag over the hole to stop anything falling in

I fitted the new pump in like so


I tapped the Pump on the shaft with a plastic faced mallet to get it to go deeper into its slot so i could reverse the puller and slide it back into place
Once it was about there I refitted the plastic cover and inserted the retaining bolts and nipped em up to the correct torque setting
then refit the drive gear using a socket, short ext and torque wrench
in order to stop the pump spinning while it was toqued down i inserted a flat blade drive in the gears like so

not the best way I know but it did the job!!!!

Refer to the pic further up and refit the water pump drain plug and overflow pipe.

Refit the Coolant pump cover

Refit Oil dipstick

Refit Air Charge hose

Refit Coolant tank and hoses

Refit lower Coolant hose

Refill coolant system

release clamps of heater hose

then I removed the oil drain plug and drained the last dregs of the old oil out and refitted it an tightened it up.

whilst i was down there i noticed rust on the insulation around the sump so i removed it an found this

rusty water from the coolant overflow pipe and the pipe is positioned to drain behind and into the insulation
not now it doesn't

Also does anyone know what this gadget is for

it doesnt seem to be connected to anything


then removed the oil filter cover/cap, Its not easy to find but here's a clue

an you can also get at it from the right side wheel arch

You'll need to remove the Turbo hose to get at it from the top

an its a touchy feely job as you cant really see wot u r doin
Once the cap is removed change the O-ring for the new one you should have got with your Oil filter


Slide out the old filter

Dont forget to put a rag there to catch the old oil
then slide in the new oil filter

and refit the cap not forgetting to smear fresh oil on any new O-rings

Refill the engine with the required oil


Refit the sound proofing and wheel arch cover and anything else that may have been removed (im typing from memory at the mo so please forgive me if ive forgot summat)

Lower the van back down

Recheck the Oil and Coolant levels on a level surface
then go start the engine once u r sure everything is tight and refitted etc.

run the engine for a wee while  then turn it off and leave for the fluids to settle then recheck and top up if required

then got take it for a test run!!!!

Re-check levels

Job done
Give yourself a pat on the back and donate half the money you've just saved to the Buy Onefut a Ducati foundation

If it all goes wrong refer to what i put at the begining of the post. DON'T BLAME ME!!!!!!




Edited by orangina - 19 Nov 09 at 15:36
God whispers in our soul & speaks to our heart. When we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick.
It's our choice: Listen to the whisper or wait for the brick!
05 Shuttle SE 174 Auto LWB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 08 at 23:28
Ok dunnit

Van seems to be goin OK but..

im still gettin emulsification on the oil filler cap etc

Hope its not the oil cooler

heres some pics of the new/Old coolant pumps

as you can see there is some heavy corrosion

Bloody VW shud have to pay for crap stuff like this


as you can also see the Inner seal is a bit too big an was slack in its groove



New compared to old
new one on right has plastic almost bakalight impellor old one is metal and both are totally different


you may be able to tell the newer one has a slightly longer tapered shaft for the gear to sit on



Im toyin with the idea of gettin tradin standards or one of the TV programmes involved as i think VW have got a nerve puttin pumps in that corrode in less 50,000 miles/2yrs
mine had been loosin coolant for a good 6 months or more before i found this forum an sussed out wat it was

Im gonna post up how to repair the electric slidin doors when ive got some stainless cable long enough to do the job
Bloody VW again not lubing the cable at all in the factory. Bone dry mild steel cable + UK weather = cables corroded at about 22 (left) & 25 (right) months old

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 08 at 23:50

The little aluminium block bolted to the sump you mentioned is the oil sensor, I think this is probably the "opacity sensor" that reports to the ecu as part of the longlife servicing regime.  I have seen a faulty one on a Golf and it comes up with a warning on the dash that says "Oil Sensor Workshop" or something like that.   

The sooty black deposit in the intercooler or piping is normal.  Unless it gets really thick and gungy it's not really a problem. 

The charged air pipe in the pic (with the yellow spot on it) is the one that used to blow off on the early vans and eventually was the subject of a recall and a modified pipe.  I had that and also the lower intercooler pipe blow off at different times.   



Edited by orangina - 06 Feb 09 at 22:43
2004 2.5 174
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 08 at 00:22
Thanx for the good comments mate

i cleaned off the gunk with carb cleaner aas i thought it was a bit thick

the sensor isnt plugged into anything its just sittin there not even a plug in site must just be for longlife as mine is set up for 10k servicing

any idea wot that little filter is ?

I may well modify a few bits on the thread once i get elsawin workin again i mean once the guy i get the info off gets it workin again
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 08 at 11:47

Originally posted by Onefut Onefut wrote:


any idea wot that little filter is ?

I think it filters the air supply for the vaccum pump.

2004 2.5 174
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 08 at 09:29
Onefut, with reference to the emulsification, I get this as well, also droplets of water on the dipstick. I have kept a close eye on coolant level and oil level and so far both remain unchanged. Next time I go for an extended run I will check it again, hopefully it`s just condensation. I have seen the emulsification before, it was a characteristic of Duckhams multigrade. The droplets on the dipstick are a bit more worrying. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 08 at 21:29

Is your van low/short mileage ZZ?  Emulsification is quite comon on engines that only get used lightly.  I often see lots of white gunge in the oil filler cap on very low mileage cars.  If they hardly ever get a decent run it appears on the dipstick too.  I've even seen the dipstick start rusting on extreme examples.

As far as I can see the things to look out for on an earlier (pre '05?) T5 if you suspect a leaking water pump are rapid water loss (there should be almost none normally) and an increasing oil level. (Always check it on totally level ground). 



Edited by T5 TDI - 16 Oct 08 at 09:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 08 at 22:04

Finally changed my water pump today for the modified one. Smile  Mine wasn't leaking and had no broken shaft but I just wasn't happy waiting for it to let me down.Shocked   Just a few things to add from my first experience of this job. 

You might have noticed Onefut's comments on not taking off the rubber plug covering the crank pulley.  Going further, if you have manual transmission  you can avoid taking off the O/S wheel arch liner and needing the crank locking tool in order to undo the pump gear nut by selecting 4th gear and getting someone to hold the footbrake on.  This way you don't even need to take the O/S wheel off, and you will spend most of your time bent over the bonnet at the N/S (gearbox) end.  You will only need a single spanner/socket & bar to undo the pump nut.  You can tighten the pump nut the same way.
 
On my manual trans there isn't much room to use a universal puller like Onefut did to pull out the pump without removing the gear selector relay block.  So I used an old engine hook (an L shaped bit of metal) under the pump gear nut.  This meant the loop part of the hook was now sticking well out and in prime position for a my long bar with a bit of wood for protection to lever the pump out.  In addition I did clamp off the heater pipes as I suggested to Onefut and had no problems with airlocks.
 
I would say this isn't really a job you should tackle yourself unless you are really familliar with engines generally and like to do all your own work.  There are just too many expensive things that can go wrong.  But if you insist on doing your own work it's possible and this is a pretty handy thread to look at first. Big%20smile 


Edited by T5 TDI - 18 Oct 08 at 22:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 09 at 14:55

I've just carried out the water pump replacement on my early 2005 T5 174 (AXE) LHD Caravelle.

First of all I would like to thank:

Onefut: for the inspiration to do the water pump change myself.  I'm very grateful. Thumbs Up

T5 TDI: for his tips which saved much time an effort. Thumbs Up

Auto Ile un Herbst (My local VW agent): for helping, rather than hindering!

The job took me only 3 hours (less than what VW allow), and I wasted a fair bit of time as it was the first time.

The following info may help:

1) I forgot to clamp the coolant pipes leading to the heater matrix, but had no problem refilling when the job was done.

2) I only needed to unbolt and move the coolant header tank (not disconnect pipes) so that I had a better view of the water pump.

3) I drained to coolant via the temperature sender at the bottom of the radiator (opposite end to the pipe that Onefut disconnected - passenger side in UK).  It was easy to disconnect by hand.  Keep an eye open for the O-ring!

4) As I was changing the oil, I didn't bother draining coolant from the pump housing - I left the plug and pipe alone.  A very small amount of residual coolant got into the oil, so I ran the motor until operating temperature before draining the oil.  Some condensation was visible in the oil filler neck (was not before), but this was easily removed before filling with new oil.

5) I'm not sure that the 2x pump mounting bolts are Torx.  I have a set of Torx sockets (with 6 points) but none fitted perfectly.  What did fit was a 12 point key marked MV10.  Onefut mentioned this number, but I don't know what it's called.  I think it's quite common on VWs as I had it for use on my 1986 Passat years ago.

6) I made a simple tool to remove the pump, based on what T5 TDI used (I'm not old enough to have bits of BMC in my garage!).  It came out very easily.  Photo at end of this post.

7) I lubricated the external seals on the new water pump with coolant (inner seal) and oil (outer seal).

8) My VW dealer gave the following torque values (please check, as I cannot be 100% sure that they are correct):

2 x M8 (MV-10) pump mounting bolts: 20 Nm + 90 degrees.
1 x M12 (24mm spanner) drive sprocket nut: 84 Nm.

9) It was really easy to remove the drive-sprocket by gently tapping with a toffee hammer.  I know Onefut said this, but I didn't realise it would come off so easily and with such gentle taps.

10) When re-fitting the pump, the 2x mounting bolts are just long enough to draw the pump into place without the need for a mallet.

11) It was difficult to get the dip-stick tube back into the hole near the sump - I found that there was burring around the end of the tube that prevented it sliding into the O-ring that was left in the hole.  I put a shamfer of the tube and fitted a new O-ring to the tube, rather than leaving the O-ring in the hole.

Next time I think it would be quite easy to do in under 2 hours.

Prices:

Ebay:  Pattern water pump made in Spain: £239 + 20 P+P!  No exchange.  Ouch!

VW UK: £61 including VAT exchange unit.  £124 with no return of old pump.  Made in Germany.

Coolant: 2 x 1.5 l at £8.19

VW allow 3.5 to 3.8 hours for the job.  I think UK dealers charge about £100 per hour.  Sheppards in Bishop's Stortford said that they can do it in 3 hours.

I paid more for my pump, as our money is pegged to the euro.  You guys are getting a great deal from VW as they've kept your prices low even though the £ is weak as hell!

Additional info:

My VW dealer said that they have found that these water pumps last for 120k km (about 75,000 miles).  The new one will not last longer - it's the same as the old design inside.

My metal impeller looked as if it had been eaten by electrolysis - like sacrificial anodes on boats.  This may be why the new pumps have impellers made of a plastic-like material.

2 x 1.5 litres of coolant pink G12 Plus Plus should do the job. 3 l coolant + 4.5 l water = -24 deg. C

Any sign of corrosion (like Onefut's) suggests that the correct coolant was not present at some time.  Mine had minor rust staining around the down-facing weep hole in the pump its self - that's all, but still a mystary if the coolant is supposed to prevent corrosion.

Home-made puller (the hole on the flat end needs to be dia. 12mm, verticals need to be 35mm apart):





Puller on pump:



My dealers said another weak point are the rubber toothed drive wheels for the alternator and the air con. pump.  Both are the same.  They've found that they give up at around 150k km (90,000 miles) and can cause expensive damage if left.  If replaced before failure, only about £30 odd each.  Does anyone know about these?

My motorcycle's water pump failed two days before the van's - at 32,000 miles, so I better go and do that as well!  What is it with these water pumps!!? Angry

Best regards and good luck, Rupert


Edited by Happy Yellow - 07 Dec 09 at 15:02
2005 Sari Yellow Caravelle 174/AXE 200k miles
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