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Hello and Help Needed, Loads a Smoke and No Power

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Paulb786123 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 May 20 at 23:09
Hello everyone, my first post and would love some help if possible? So I have a 2003 T5, 2.5 130. I was pulling a trailer with quite a load, the van was pulling like a train, all of a sudden the van lost power and was throwing plumes of smoke out the exhaust. I had the radio up loud so never heard any noise if there were any. The van won't rev past 2000 rpm, no warning lights lit, even with trailer unhooked it will only dtiver in first gear, couldn't move up a gear or engine would die, oil was thrown into engine bay but I have no idea where from. I can't hear turbo spin but would it at 2000 rpm? I've plugged in a fault code reader but nothing shown? Engine ticks over okay with no strange noise but I do see smoke in the engine bay. Any ideas? Thanks for reading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 20 at 09:15
Welcome Paul. Smile  Have a good look at along every part of all of the large bore hoses all the way from the turbo to the intercooler at the front.  One may have popped off or split.  The intercooler itself is another possibility if it has burst.  Use where the oil is as a guide.  The hoses shouldn't have a lot of oil inside unless the turbo seals are leaking but probably enough to make a mess if something suddenly lets go under pressure. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 20 at 11:49
T5 TDI is probably right, most likely a serious leak of boost somewhere from the turbo outlet to the intake.  If there is a serious boost leak then the smoke is usually black from unburnt diesel.  

If the smoke is blue/white (burnt oil) then it is possible your turbo has carked it.

Let us know how you get on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulb786123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 20 at 19:28
Thanks for the help so far, much appreciated. I've checked the hoses today, they all seem okay, no splits and nothing popped apart. The section that connects to the first pipe from the turbo has very slight play in it but was fully connected. The pipes however have quite a bit of engine oil in them, perhaps the turbo itself?? I'm fairly sure the smoke from the exhaust was black, didn't pay much attention as the oil in the engine bay was causing more smoke!! 

Any further thoughts?

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 20 at 22:37
I still think you must be losing (air) pressure after the turbo.  There should be an underboost code logged if you get it on diagnostics.     

Dealers and most garages have a pump which can pressurise the system to find leaks.  Leaks like split hoses might only open up under pressure and can be missed on a quick visual inspection.  You really need to take each hose off.  Smaller leaks can go unnoticed apart from poor performance, larger ones usually hiss but if the leak is so big it stops any pressure being achieved it can do what yours did.

The 2000 rpm max thing will be because the ECU is in limp home mode.  If an overboost or underboost condition is recorded, the ECU will limit certain things to try and prevent engine damage if the ECU thinks it can't control the turbo fully.    

I know from my own van that the AXE/AXD engine makes almost no turbo whine/noise, just a slight  'whoosh' when pulling up to maximum boost and you rarely hear that unless you are towing.  However any exhaust leaks close to the engine (like manifold or turbo to manifold gasket) on the AXE/AXD will cause what sounds like a classic turbo whine but that is not a normal noise you should expect to hear from that engine if everything is perfect.

You could do a quick check for a seized turbo by taking the air filter pipe to the turbo off and checking that the compressor wheel is free.  It's quite hard to see but you can give it a very gentle prod around with a long thin screwdriver as a basic check.  It should spin freely and with no slack. 


Edited by T5 TDI - 07 May 20 at 22:47
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Paulb786123 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulb786123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 20 at 11:03
Hi everyone, sorry it's taken so long to reply. I've only got around to stripping the van this week. So far with turbo still fitted but all hoses removed, the turbo intake blades spin freely and have no play that I can feel. The turbo and intercooler pipes are running with oil, I guess about half a litre of the stuff ran out of the intercooler itself. Any further thoughts would be welcome before I take the turbo off and just plump for turbo and full pipe replacement. Thanks again for any help receivedSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 20 at 11:30
as above , still sounds like an air leak, perhaps blown inter cooler 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulb786123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 20 at 23:25
thanks, I'll start with  hose replacement then, the intercooler is dead straight top and bottom. Can I ask where all the oil is coming from? My non mechanical head can't move from knackered seals in the turbo, can this "over oiling" be caused by a leak? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebuild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 20 at 23:57
PCV valve? check operation.



Edited by Rebuild - 29 Aug 20 at 23:58
Steve
2004 LWB 2.5 TDI 128KW auto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 20 at 00:23
Originally posted by Paulb786123 Paulb786123 wrote:

oil was thrown into engine bay but I have no idea where from.

You need to find out where that oil came from.  It really does still sound like you have a hose off or a split.  If your turbo spins smoothly and has no movement on the turbine then it doesn't look like that is what caused your sudden problem even if the turbo is letting some oil past.  The turbo vanes could cause the limp home easily but that doesn't account for the oil being thrown into the engine ebay.    

You could make sure that the engine breather isn't blocked.  I wouldn't rush out to buy a turbo though until I was absolutely certain it was knackered.  


    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulb786123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 20 at 08:55
Thanks guys, I'm getting fairly convinced it's not the turbo now as well after your advice and what I've found. Now the PCV, I had no idea what that was until yesterday when I was ordering a new one. When I stripped the van down I tried to remove the PCV, when I pulled it up the body came away from stem that fits into the cylinder head that's when I noticed someone has broken it before, gave it a good sand/clean and glued the two bits together! I'm thinking now after the help above that perhaps the repair had started to fail and that's where the oil was coming from, the oil certainly coats the top of the engine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 20 at 11:56
Well it will be good to get it changed.  There was a thread about this job (on the other channel!) a month or so ago.  https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/threads/replacing-a-missing-pressure-relief-valve-on-a-t5-2004.1794055/#post-6607376
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulb786123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 20 at 09:28
Well I finally found some time and took the plunge and removed the turbo for a look, thought better safe than sorry. It is absolutely knackered, the blades on the exhaust side were worn down and so much play I couldn't believe it. Also noticed when I took the turbo off there was no gasket between it and the manifold, last people in there were a VW main agent when the first turbo was replaced under warranty at 42k miles! I'm also not convinced they fitted a new turbo but possibly reconditioned the one that can off!!?? Anyway, new Garret fitted, new water pump installed and air con and alternator coupling and clutches replaced,, running like a drea m, hopefully good for another 100 k miles!!
Thanks for all of the help and input
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 20 at 03:15
Glad to hear it's all fixed now, hopefully it will stay that way now. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 20 at 21:15
Yes from me too and thanks for getting back.  It's great to have somebody that actually bothers to post the eventual fix! Thumbs Up  

On the early AXE and AXD vans (the ones which had the welded steel exhaust manifold) that joint between the turbo and manifold didn't have a gasket.  I must admit I was so disbelieving when I did mine that at first I thought it must have dropped off when I took the turbo out!  But that is how they were.  I don't know why it ever worked.  There were some aftermarket gaskets that became available later but I think they were mostly associated with the aftermarket cast manifolds which I now have. 

All this reminds me of ten years ago when I first went to look for the cause of a turbo squeal on mine that got so bad over time I thought something really grim was happening with the turbo.  I posted the experience here as I took it to bits.  No doubt it will sound familiar!   http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/turbo-squeal-cure_topic57276.html  Sorry about the missing pics, Photobucket suddenly stopped hosting all 3rd party pics at the time unless you paid them $350. (This amounted to a full-on ransom in my opinion) so the pics are missing from the thread.  I must have them somewhere so I really should put them back up. 


Edited by T5 TDI - 22 Oct 20 at 21:19
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