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Brown - White Wire to T5 + Battery Terminal

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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 17:39
Thanks Rolla Smile

I connected the brown wire to the battery by stages.

First through a few connections and a peabulb, which didn't light during tickover.
Then through a few connections without the bulb.
Then through a crimped ring connector.

I didn't have any warning lights before it was connected.
So, no change there.
Clock and trip mileage zeroed when they felt like it before re-connection.
They still zero randomly.Angry
A Black Forest Cobalt (hob goblin) perchance

It seems quieter at tick-over however.
And smoother, quieter, and more powerful on the road.
MPG have increased from below 30mpg to around 35.
I drive sedately.

Thank you very much for your help everybody Smile
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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 17:47
Hey mate, yep no warning lights from that wire disconnected, I had the fault for almost a year, someone on the otherside .... Big smile responded and put me straight .....
You'll only see it on a diag. scan, it's a reference voltage as my daig snippet reveals......
your mpg is down to your driving I assure you, nothing with the brown/white striped wire.....
there big slugs not racing van's ... I used to get 38mpg at 90mph on my remapped AXD 2.5(184bp) on motorways, cold start round town would level that out......
I'm now getting aprox 26/7mpg at 70-80mph ..... on my 15plate 2.0tdi CAAC ..... which is p/poor...Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 17:57
You could be right about my driving Rolla Smile

On the other hand, it could be down to the ECU working better.
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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 18:10
Hi Charlie Dog ..... nah it's just a reference voltage dude ... I feared about connecting it up......
as I had already had an electrical fire due to someones dicking about and poor maintenance,
so I was being mega cautious... I connected it whilst using my vagcom, saw it clear away ....
damned pre-can bus thingamajig voltage check .....
You know these vehicles have hissy fits and pee there pants over the electrics ....
usually requiring a reset by the big terminals ......... (thats disconnect the battery for 10 mins.... central locking falls in line etc..)
There easy to fix, but remember the ecu cant always fix itself if it doesnt play right,
if it gets stuck up on things, all you can do if everything is in order, is a reset.....
ie.. oil level light came on, wouldnt clear until I did a reset, not even with  vagcom controlling it and correct levels  ... thats ll history now .... i hope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 18:35
I've had some dealings with that reference wire in the past.  As far as I know it runs from the DF terminal on the alternator, via the E-box and on to the J519.  The OP's wire is an earth so from your post I'm guessing it provides a earth for the J519 perhaps.  There is a system run by the J519 that can switch unnecessary consumers off if the battery gets low.  Maybe it needs an earth all the way back to the battery as a back up?
2004 2.5 174
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 19:27
Thanks Rolla Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 19:36
Shortly after engine switched, the voltage between the end of the wire and the battery earth varied quite rapidly.
After say 10 mins, the voltage difference stayed at zero.

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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 19:37
Correction

Shortly after engine switch-off, the voltage between the end of the wire and the battery earth varied quite rapidly.
After say 10 mins, the voltage difference stayed at zero.
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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 19 at 19:55
Yeah thats all the module connected in line dissapating, or there reference(unit powered/unit  on, malfunction etc...) remember that is a return to earth thats dis-connected, so the (-) side of the module reference.
I cant say what else i did connected opposed to disconnected, just cleared an anoying fault code if your as OCD about clearing fault codes as me....


3 Faults Found:
00538 - Reference Voltage
            014 - Defective
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

These were brown/white stripe to battery connection, last 2 were multi plugs under seat corroded if i remember, check your fat red wire under pass seat, it's probably okay, but 2 fat red wires get brittle and the solder corrodes away from the single wire, they did away with one red some time and made it just 2 heavy guage w8 or so, soldered together.
I dont know if its shit tinning/solder they use(VW) or solder w/flux with high acid in it, but it's real poor quality work on joining looms. but now .... different t5 different gravy nowOuch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 08:57
Originally posted by rolla rolla wrote:


These were brown/white stripe to battery connection, last 2 were multi plugs under seat corroded if i remember, check your fat red wire under pass seat, it's probably okay, but 2 fat red wires get brittle and the solder corrodes away from the single wire, they did away with one red some time and made it just 2 heavy guage w8 or so, soldered together.
I dont know if its shit tinning/solder they use(VW) or solder w/flux with high acid in it, but it's real poor quality work on joining looms. but now .... different t5 different gravy nowOuch

Are you sure VW joined wires on T5s
that connect other than electronic gadgets 
with solder please Rolla?

I'm impressed, but not favourably impressed if they do.

The unsupported brown / white wire I just reconnected 
was ruggedly protected against failure through flexing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 12:36
Some are a kind of crimped and taped joint like this one under my drivers seat.  Mine shown here wasn't bad but some corrode away totally.  I don't think it counts as soldered though.  

2004 2.5 174
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 15:40
Originally posted by T5 TDI T5 TDI wrote:

Some are a kind of crimped and taped joint like this one under my drivers seat.  Mine shown here wasn't bad but some corrode away totally.  I don't think it counts as soldered though.  


Thank you very much Smile

Looks like it was welded together under pressure to me.
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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 17:06
Yes I know what solder is .... whether the joint under the passenger seat is mechanically factory fused together ..??  or soldered ....  (as I dont know of ANY garages that mechanically compress electrical joints together..! do you) .. whats wrong with solder ... has something superceeded it ...?
Its holding the ECU and all your modules together...
YOu could even stretch your imagination to think that the compressed electrical joint failed, in its highly abused 15 year history before I owned it, then as garages dont have a high pressure joint fixer ... they just soldered it ..... Clap
Read the t4 forum, you will see pictures of soldered joints .... the said twin red to single, under the passenger seat, did you think I went trawling every electrical connection for it's integrity and continuity ..?? 

My pain in owning these is transpired in assistance, last century I trained/worked as a grease monkey and dont care to earn money that way now, but my technical edge is used daily, just even in owning a abused t5, you need deep pockets or a good egg... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 17:43
I did not doubt or question your word Rolla.
I value your knowledge experience and help Smile

You asked, "whats wrong with solder".
Well, you kinda, sort-of pointed out 
two things that are wrong with it.
shit tinning/solder they use 
solder w/flux with high acid in it.
It is, very difficult to solder old wire.
Especially when it is on a vehicle.

Here are some technical reasons.

With a crimped joint, 
one conductor is pressed tightly 
against the other conductor, 
which reduces resistance / voltage drop across the joint.

With a soldered joint, 
solder comes between
one wire and the other.
Solder has a much higher resistance than copper.
Soldered joints have 
a higher resistence than crimped joints.

Every joint gets a little hotter 
when current flows through it.

Crimped joints stay joined
even if the wire gets so hot
the insulation melts.

Soldered joints heat up faster 
than crimped joints, 
because of their higher resistance.
As, when and if the the solder melts 
the wires can come apart.
If the live end earths
it can cause a fire.

When you heat copper wire
to the temperature at which solder runs
you change it's temper.
You make it brittle.
Brittle copper wire
is likely to fail near the joint.
The loose wire may then earth,
and start a fire.

ECUs are a different kettle of fish.

The conductors are held in place
so flexing isn't a problem.
Large currents aren't involved,
no chance of over heating.
The copper involved is clean,
and high quality.
Even so, there are companies
that make a living repairing ECUs.

My answer to your question
comes to you without strings.
If you wish to bin it, 
that's fine by me Smile

If you wish to tell me I'm off my rocker,
well that's also fine with me Smile

Most manuals have short lines.


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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 19:04
no worries ....  i know so little .... but vw's promote oxidisation and corrosion ... it's in the air .... Clown

All that you pasted there is stuffed up with health n safety .... "... may cause a fire" out of some google search .... and all set in a perfect world ... not a t5 bin
Im not being an arse, but if you go paste stuff like that up, time to get your haynes manual out...

if the joint is not compromised by say age/stress/water, then it would never fail ... would it ...
it would never have an over-current unless it has been improperly loaded, as that gauge wire and loading is controlled by a fuse, on the live side.... so why has it failed and there not ever been a recall and .."The loose wire may then earth,
and start a fire..." .... sorry i nicked that from above .... Thumbs Up

lets just hope then the 15 plate is "pressed together" a bit better ....
Solder joints fvkin rock..... as no oxidisation creeps in ... wire age is different gravy
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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 19:15
Alot of condensation gathers under the front carpets .... I had mine up twice in a year  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 19:37
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rolla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 19 at 20:24
Ive learn't on arc, have a mig, have a TIG, used to splice fibre optics.... that fusion crap is for plastic yellow ducks and t5 door cards ...
I'll solder any joint over compression unless were talking 3phase or high voltage, high load dc size etc.. as you'll crimp terminals on then, cable quality is set to buidling regs, coated/insulated against destruction, vw quality is not the best, not bad but it has it's life duration built in at design,
there is even tin wires in the t5 looms, even in my mates t4 .. tin wires I say ...
lets not get away from the fact, you do love it and it will bankrupt you ....
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