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AGG modifications

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Dave Dorson View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Nov 16 at 08:52
Hello *waves*

I've got an AGG in my workshop that although came from a 79k mile Seat Ibiza Cupra GTI sport, has all the signs of being fairly neglected.

Now.. I've got a bit of history mucking about with 2E engines and PB heads on MK2 golfs, so it got me thinking...

Back in the day, it was pretty common for those of us trying to reach the dizzy heights of 8v N/A power, to use the stock management with a "chip" (crappy things that never really worked) as well as some bolt on modifications some clever machining work.

One of the things we'd often do, is throw a short nose diesel crank in the engine, to increase stroke even further, although this did necessitate removal of 1.35mm from the top of the pistons, you can also bore the block and run oversize pistons if you want a bit more capacity, but that means getting the blocked bored and honed a bit too.

Combined with some basic gas flow of the cylinder head, and a cam to suit your needs, we managed to achieve almost 16v performance.. LOL  

Now, I'm fully aware that the T3 isn't a Mk2 golf.. it's bigger, it's heavier, it's got a larger frontal area and the gearing is all very different.

But the theory is still the same... we should be able to increase the capacity of our engines and use a suitable cam (I think a 268 Newman is a good grind to use) to give us a little helping hand, or because we're ditching the cats when we do this, perhaps run an earlier engine cam (Kjet?) that's got a better grind?..

When messing with golf engines in MK2's, you'd go a bit more aggressive on the cam as a rule, run some larger valves if you had a friendly head man (or knew the man in the shed, Dave Crissel of allstage/GTi engineering fame) and as such you'd probably have your rotating stuff at least weight matched and balanced, if you're feeling really fancy polished too, so it held together at the higher RPM that the rev limit raised chips allowed you to achieve.

Of course, it'd be easier to go another engine conversion route, but nothing petrol wise (except maybe the WBX's) sits as nicely in the engine bay and uses so many stock parts, or requires no real modification.  Even the Subaru stuff hangs low at the bottom, even if they are superb conversions.

As mentioned I wasn't using Standalone Engine Management back that.. that was something that was too expensive, that's not the case anymore, it's a lot cheaper and as the value of the vans goes up, it's worth spending the money to use it, allows more flexibility and tuning scope, and you've got a number of DIY and TIY (Tune it Yourself) options... so the "chips" can be banished to the EPROM burning hell they came from Wink

Now, I really doubt I'm the only one who's considered all this stuff on these vans.. so I'm calling on you chaps and chappesses (I assume we've got a few in) that'll have troden this path before, to see if anyone has any potential pitfalls to talk about before I start looking for a 1z bottom end and get a spare set of pistons cut down, and get my head in the parts washer ready to strip and have a go at porting.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 16 at 20:32
whats in the bus at the moment? the gti (2e or agg) is a vast improvement not just in performance and reliability but mainly in freshening up the bus so it doesnt become tiresome to actually drive! i think what your saying above is for someone who likes to mess aswell as likes to drive so that falls entirely up to your own decisions... elvis likes to cam stuff - and hes just had his agg ported with new guides. i had a 2e in my doka to a dk box that went pb head after a while - ive gone v6 after nearly fitting an abf...elvis's  old bus had similar and he was obviously happy with the outcome as his new bus is getting the same... overall i think it all depends on what you want from it? theres definitely better engines to start out with for outright power and performance but then you get a knock on effect with gearbox and brakes not being up to there new roll!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 16 at 00:52
where does one start?

Why? Its not a subaru as wanted to stick to VAG brand, dunno why, nothing against anything else other than its VW so should have a VW in it. Its easy to do, well trodden route, done loads now, happy i have an idea 'whats what'.

 As bruddah Rowelsey says, plenty of others out there to choose from, just preference i guess. For me time is a resource i have precious little of so sticking with what i know. Bus is 4 miles away as my drive is on a slope and it wont fit in garage. Can potter on it as and when. V6/20v would involve new territory that i would heamorrahage time on.

If you compare an AGG v DJ torque delivery they are not a million miles away but the AGG is just so much more driveable. For such a similar engine (power delivery) it feels like a totally different beast.

Also it was kind of one of those 'i want to find out' projects to see what i could/can get out of 2l reliably  in a bus. Not arrogant enough to believe i am at the cutting edge of development but seeing as it appears to be a more popular conversion thought i would see what the average bloke could get for fairly reasonable money and didn't involve to much effort or technology.

So, onto the engine ......

Have fitted 268 before and was very happy. Seat of pants saw it pull from tickover to as much as i wanted to safely rev it. 270+ would be too lumpy and push up useable torque. Apparently 272+ starts to upset lambda on a standard engine.

Funnily enough was having a chat to a mate yesterday abouT36 cams. If you compare a AGG (026A?) cam v a 256 , the factory one is 'better' in that lobe centres/overlap , duration are almost identical and lift is 10.2 v 10.05 of the 'performance' cam.

So, from experience with my Mk1 Seat of the Pants Dyno, the 268 is very well suited to the size/weight/shape of a T3 and doesnt affect driveability. To the contrary, it gives it a big kick up the arse in useable torque across the rev range for what i (we?) are looking for.

Moving on from the cam the next progression was head work. Went For JMR in saltash in the end. VERY well respected in Golf circles and builds top notch race engines. One thing that drew me to him was the amount of data he provides/shares. everything he has ever done he qualifies with RR/Dyno figures and he has his own flow bench and has tried and tested every mod. He doesnt do stuff just so he can charge more but get less CFM. Top chap, didnt try flogging me shit i didnt need and didnt do the horrible thing where traders try and make themselves look good by slagging his competitors off.

Didnt use Dave C (man in shed) just because he is less 'accessible' info wise. Appreciate he is up there with the best but i like to see numbers and qualified figures. Nothing more than that.

Standard head/standard valves and done by one of the best out there. Obvs big valves = decreased port velocity etc etc etc etc . Throw a van into the mix and it wasnt what i wanted. I want the van for driveability.

One day it will be finished.......LOL

Have never meddled with SEM and thats what the next step will be. Purely because ive never meddled and want to! was hoping to have had van on the road by now but its dragging onOuch

On a positive note, just got my pin board finished to make/modify AGG looms. With this in mind, to fit SEM will be quite easily as i can make a loom that i know will fit 100% spot on, take all the pins out and put them onto whatever i go for (DTA was top of list, then they folded, then were bought out, now Dan Akcidento is using it so good enough for meBig smile) and have a virtually working SEM loom straight off the bat. Will be able to swap them over in less than an hour when im getting it mapped.

Thats it really, bit of a ramble and cant remember if i even answered any Qs!!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 16 at 00:56
Bugger, tdi crank.......

Looked into it and the cost/time/effort outweighed the gain. Extra 60cc or something? Thought it was futile exercise IMHO.

If i was going down that route i wouldnt have considered going AGG TBH.








and after all the rambling shit above- can get stuff from SA shipped and have seen 20v kits (but would possibly get cast bellhousing adapter copied/machined from billet). Who knows what 2018 may bring........Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 16 at 06:51
Turbo kit for the agg?
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Dave Dorson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Dorson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 16 at 11:31
To address a few questions.

Originally, the van was a 1.9WBX, after destroying two of them, I decided that I don't like them, and there aren't enough good ones around for what I wanted to pay.

After killing two 1.9's and not finding any good 2.1's, I went a bit mad and did a Subaru conversion on the van using a pre converted 2.2 with an TSR (I believe) loom and a turbo thomas exhaust.

I used RJES parts for that, they were lovely and I can't fault them.

However it was never really very well finished by me, it was in, it ran, but it was drinky, the fuel pump was a bit rubbish, the lambda was missing from the loom so it drank a load..  A combination of youth, inexperience, and a massive under-estimation of the skills and budget needed to do it right on my part put me off doing another one.  

I know they're a lovely conversion, but they're not without their own challenges either.  And in my old age, I kind of wanted to keep it all "in the family".. besides I've got a 1303 that I can butcher to make go fast.. (and that's got a Subaru turbo fitted..)

So, back to the questions..

What's in there at the moment.. mostly rust and bad paint, it had a 1Y with a DK box, I kept the bits I wanted and sold the 1Y to Micheal Ghia a few months ago, he described my van as rather rotten.. he's not wrong, so while I'm sorting that lot out (I've got a sentimental attachment to my van!) I've got time to muck about with engine options.

I crew in the VWDRC for Team Relentless, those who've seen a yellow Ibiza with a 20vT engine fitted will probably have seen me around that.  



Basically, my engine came from that car, with an ECU but no loom.  I found an AGG golf in the local "pull and pick" style scrapyard and had that out, that's my donor loom. 

I paid about £5.00 for the loom and relays I needed, and the engine was a freebie, but it's showing evidence of having got the two center con rod journals warm.. I've not taken the caps off yet to inspect the crank, but it's getting a full strip, new bearings and rings/hone and freshen as required anyway, however if the crank was damaged..  well you get why I was looking at the diesel crank option now I guess?

The ECU also came from the Ibiza, that's been immo deleted by a local guy who owed me  favour.

I'd planned to convert the loom myself, and then look into my exhaust options, seen a MK4 manifold that looks useful and avoids the want for a 2-1 section as well as a MK3 1.8 exhaust that's similar and looks less restrictive than I'd expected.

Then I was going to weld together some bits of pipe into a joiner to my 2.1 WBX silencer that I was planning to hang from WBX saddles.. which I've not sourced yet.

And yes, I know buying a donor car would have been easier :).  I dip in and out of my projects so I'm not really too worries about the time it takes.. it's my hobby.

Tuning wise, I have seen a few folks who have put eatons onto AGG's but I've not measured up how that'll be packaged in a T3 bus.

And I'm also a bit of a princess when it comes to doing stuff like engine lid raises, I want to keep the rear area flat and low really, as VW made it, which is the other reason that the this conversion appeals.

I'll take some snaps and post them up as I progress if you like... it won't be regular updates though, as I've always got tons on with work, marriage and other commitments. 










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Dave Dorson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Dorson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 16 at 11:33
Tuning wise though, I like the idea of keeping it all "AGG packaged" and running it on standalone and tuning it myself..

And if I do a capacity increase and change the cam, that gives me a better scope to use those modifications..

Well, that's my reasoning anyway :)
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