The Brick-yard Homepage Brickwerks
Forum Home Forum Home > T5 Section > T5 Chat
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Cold start problem. Spent loads already!!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Cold start problem. Spent loads already!!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 08:27
Originally posted by smidsy smidsy wrote:


 I really need to ask,

did you ever get round to buying a new battery for it?

It's a good point!  You'll have to now because otherwise you will never know if it was that all along and you have given away your lovely van and all the mods to some smug lucky bastard!

There is a possibility that they had it on a decent commercial battery charger and kept it fully charged, and you gradually lost the benefits of that over a few days.


Edited by T5 TDI - 15 Nov 16 at 08:28
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 22 Dec 06
Location: Canberra, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: -998266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 10:34
Or at least use a decent multi-meter to investigate over several days what the battery voltage is when:

Engine just switched off
Engine been switched off for 24 hours
Engine been switched off for several days
Starter motor cranking (but engine not started yet)
Engine just started
Engine been running (not just idling) for 20+ minutes

Another (cheap) method is to borrow a known good (and well charged) battery and swap it in when the hard starting happens.  If it starts immediately then it is definitely worth buying a new battery.


Edited by gregozedobe - 15 Nov 16 at 10:34
Back to Top
smidsy View Drop Down
Yardie
Yardie
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 08
Status: Offline
Points: 392
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smidsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 23:47

 going to find out soon enough, weather is only going to get fresher from here on in.

 it must be cheaper than another trip to the mechanic.

 i hope you keep the van and it proves to be simple, you need some reward for all the time and effort you've put in. 
Back to Top
Maxb10v8 View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 10 Sep 16
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maxb10v8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 16 at 10:15
I'll try and get a battery this weekend.

But... it's strange. The van does start much better in the morning?! It seems if I let the glow plugs do their thing a few times. Turn the ignition on, let the light go out, then do it again a couple times, it seems to start much easier.
But then after the van had been sat while I was at work, it didn't start very well?
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 16 at 10:28
It's worth checking the low pressure pump is supplying a good amount of fuel.  If you take the back (blue plastic) pipe off and get someone to cycle the ignition.  Have a tin or something handy to catch the fuel.  There should be a nice clear glug of fuel coming out.  It won't spray out in a big fan or anything, just a brief steady supply coinciding with the short squirt/gurgle from the rear.

Edit- Forgot you had been here already..
   

 


Edited by T5 TDI - 18 Nov 16 at 12:09
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
kevt5x4 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 18 Nov 16
Location: scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevt5x4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 16 at 17:59
Hi im new to this post iv just got a t5 4x4 had loads of problems with it thank fully i got
the t5 from a car dealer and so far has had new injectors new glow plugs new dual mass
fly wheel new drive shaft and now is not starting sounds the same problem iv got
them to send me a new battery . after that ill check the fule filter as iv had other problems
with another  van i have with the same fault cheep fule blocks fule filter slows supply
ill let you know how i get on with this one .

Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 16 at 19:23
Thumbs UpThumbs Up
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
Maxb10v8 View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie


Joined: 10 Sep 16
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maxb10v8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 16 at 16:59
Right another little thing I've found out.
If I put my foot on the throttle pedal when cranking the engine, is starts loads better!
It doesn't turn over very long at all, before firing!
What's that all about?
Could it need a remap? I spoke to the guy who mapped it, he said he could tweet things to give it more fuel on start up. I didn't think that was really tackling the problem? (It was a few months ago when I spoke to him).
Back to Top
gasone View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 19 Mar 14
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gasone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 16 at 12:47
Max I hope you have it all sorted now , Many moons ago I had a pig of a problem on my t4 changing glow plugs etc etc , the van had a mind of its own I could go out and it might start on the button other times it would just turn over and nothing , I got to know the local garage very well as I had to be relayed numerous time, Joined the AA on a tuesday and got relayed of the motorway on a thursday, You wouldn't mind but the people that did the work were Diesel specialists and they even offered to lend me their company car as the van kept breaking down, Eventually they flushed the fuel line and that solved the problem , Good Luck
Back to Top
gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 22 Dec 06
Location: Canberra, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: -998266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 17 at 07:39
Well, I've had a bout of intermittent hard starting myself. My van has always started very quickly (2006 van, 183,000Km, 2.5 174hp, engine never had any work on starter motor or ignition switch).

Symptoms were sometimes no cranking at all, most noticeable after a while of non use, other times slightly slow cranking when cold.  But when you switched it off and back on it would usually start.  When it was warm it would crank every time.  I initially suspected a problem with the contacts in the ignition switch or wiring/solenoid not working leading to starter motor not engaging fully (and therefore not cranking).

But before I started replacing anything I followed my own advice and tested voltages, with the following results:

-  good voltage (14.3V) when the engine was running (which told me the alternator was charging correctly).

- low voltage (12.2) after switching on before I had even started cranking, and even lower (11.3 and dropping) when cranking.  When I left the van for a few days the voltage was dropping still further.  This suggested to me that my battery was unable to hold a full charge.

-  so I dug out my load tester (a bit like a 12V toaster) and it told me the battery was below par.

Time for a new battery then.  The question was, do I pay extra and get a genuine Varta OEM battery the same as the original, or do I buy another Varta silver E44 battery like the last replacement ? I was sold the E44 as a high quality battery with more CCA than the original.

Considering I got 7 1/2 years from the OEM battery (and it was only cranking slowly when I replaced it, not failing to proceed like the E44 replacement), while the E44 only lasted 3 1/2 years; I opted for another OEM battery (also Varta, model 000 015 105 DG).  I expect to keep this van for another 10 years or so.  In hindsight I may have been able to get the same battery cheaper from an auto electrician or battery supplier, but I bought from  VW dealer as I didn't know which exact model came with my van originally.  A bit of research told me that many VW owners have had the same experience of the original OEM Battery lasting MUCH longer than aftermarket replacements.

Time will tell whether I made a good choice or not.  I have had zero starting problems since replacing the battery a fortnight ago, and I've been on a couple of longer trips since then.

The moral of this little story is:  do a thorough diagnosis before replacing expensive/awkward components, and if it is to do with electrics always check what is actually happening first, don't make assumptions (even if they seem quite plausible as explanations for what is happening).

PS  If you ever disconnect the battery (for any reason) you will need to reset the clock, plus if you have 'leccy windows they need to relearn the upper and lower limits (press and hold the up button for 20 secs after it hits the top, and ditto for fully down).


Edited by gregozedobe - 21 May 17 at 08:03
Back to Top
gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 22 Dec 06
Location: Canberra, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: -998266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 17 at 03:38
Update:  The intermittent starter motor issue is still there on my van.  Bugger !

Current suspects are the starter motor solenoid, or (less likely) the ignition switch or wiring/earth.  I don't think it is the battery/low charge, because when it does crank (which is almost all the time) it turns the engine over at normal cranking speed.

It doesn't happen very often which is good I suppose (means I'm not getting stuck somewhere), but bad because it makes it harder to diagnose exactly what is causing the problem.
Back to Top
T5 TDI View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak
Avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 05
Status: Offline
Points: 3687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 17 at 10:37
Have you checked for parasitic drain Greg?  Perhaps something is staying on.

My van (with a two year old Varta battery) shows a battery voltage of around 12.3v and it starts instantly at that voltage whether it's hot or below freezing.  Replacing the starter has transformed the way it spins the engine over.  Before I replaced the starter it was starting ok but it would occasionally sound a bit slow.  Now it turns over much quicker.  If yours is the original starter motor it probably wouldn't hurt to replace it.  I see mine had started the engine over 21,000 times over the 10 years!



Edited by T5 TDI - 29 May 17 at 10:41
2004 2.5 174
Back to Top
gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 22 Dec 06
Location: Canberra, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: -998266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 17 at 17:13
I thought about parasitic drain causing low voltage, but didn't think it is a likely explanation because you can turn the switch once and no cranking, then immediately switch of and back on and the starter cranks at normal speed (and the engine starts immediately) .  

But I will check it, I'm leaving the van unused for a few more days and then I'm going to check the battery voltage when cranking.  It would be a bit weird to suddenly develop a parasitic drain when I've had the van for 11 years now and it's usage pattern has been the same all that time.  The only electrical change I've made in the last 6 years was to replace a blown tail light globe (with one the same), and I've changed the front parker globes to LEDs.

Because I do almost exclusively longish trips (typically 200 miles+ ) my starter motor won't have actually started the engine that many times compared with the distance covered.  The engine has always started quickly (when the starter does crank), I've never had to crank the engine for more than 1-2 seconds at most (usually less).  If I do replace the starter motor it looks like it will be much cheaper to buy one from the UK even with expensive postage, rather than pay VW Australia's exorbitant prices (Aus $ 1, 121.42 for supply only !!!! )


Edited by gregozedobe - 30 May 17 at 13:09
Back to Top
festa View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 Dec 11
Location: some where
Status: Offline
Points: 107
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote festa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 17 at 20:52
Check the starter motor main cable as they break under the shrink wrap. May not be in your case but a quick look is cheaper than $$$
lwb 174,Wagner intercooler, rosten rods, balanced bottom end, GT2262v hybrid turbo, 2.7bar boost with full ss 76mm decat exhaust, itg filter, 440ft lbs@288bhp
Back to Top
gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 22 Dec 06
Location: Canberra, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: -998266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 17 at 02:52
Thanks - I'll add it to the list ....
Back to Top
Boiler mike View Drop Down
Not Quite Newbie
Not Quite Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 16
Location: Poole
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boiler mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 13:16
Did you sort your starting issues out
Mine had same issues and was down to engine speed sensor
Contacts cleaned up all fine
Apperntly sends signal back to e c u which then activates voltage to injectors
Can bring up glow plug warning light as fault
Was told by Vw fuel pump pressure etc but as found out most is down to sensor or dirty contact hope it helps
Mike
Back to Top
gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
Vanorak


Joined: 22 Dec 06
Location: Canberra, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: -998266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 03:50
My van is currently is starting normally, and hasn't had the problem for over 6 weeks.  I don't think it was the engine speed sensor, as it wasn't cranking at all (IIRC failure of this sensor prevents the injectors from firing after engine is cranking).

I hate intermittent problems as you never know when they are going to rear their ugly heads again !


Edited by gregozedobe - 19 Jul 17 at 03:53
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

The WebThis site