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gti agg overheating

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whale View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 09:10
ok so i got the 2l agg into my origionally 1.9dg bus..rah. thanks to garyds magic guide.
all sweet apart from when pushed on the motorway it'll get hot.. the fan comes on.
sitting in traffic, round town and cruising at 70 is fine.

as far as i'm aware it didn't do this in the donor car.
the ratios are standard and i've yet to put bigger tyres on the back.
replaced the thermostat, bled and checked the hoses were on the right way!
bigger rad?
could i have temp sensors to the ecu confused
any other ideas

ta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gtavalanche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 10:41
Water pump working?
I taste Hurty!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orcecaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 10:43
You say at 70mph its fine, but pushing it, it gets hot. What speed is pushing it? Remember your'e pushing a bloody heavy lump with the aerodynamics of a house. A bit heavier than the Golf it came out of. So maybe its fine?


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whale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 13:23
water pump fine,.
yeah maybe it's just revving too high, i dont have a rev counter and it's a standard abd box.
it happens when i go over 70 for any length of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orcecaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 15:40
Its a 20+ year old van. Take your foot off the loud pedal. Wink


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ELVIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 16:10
Don't think anyone who has done a gti conversion has had overheating problems as such.

Usual stuff

Water pump
Check sender is working ok
Voltage regulator on PCB
Radiator - could be coincidental with engine swap but your Carlos fandango engine means you might be revving it more, water pup going quicker, not enough water getting thr rad. Remember it will be thirty odd years old if original and no doubt filled wit snot/sp unk/sludge/shit from the previous 47 owners neglecting it and having only take on how to service coolant system. My rule of thumb is take it out and pick it up between your thumb and fore finger , if you struggle to pick it up pinching it between two fingers its fuller than a sixth former! A new rad is surprisingly light!

Remember petrol rad is narrower then a diesel rad anyway to start off with.

Edited by ELVIS - 08 Sep 13 at 16:11
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orcecaveman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orcecaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 17:55
Man Fat in your rad Elvis? Ermm LOL


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whale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 20:22
we all love our vans in different ways...
ta for the help, prbably something reeally simple, i am the idiot who forgot to do the accelerator nut up, wired two sensors into the guage so it read double, etc

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rowlesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 13 at 17:23
dalek on the header - thermostat - waterpump - rad fan switch - airlock in the heater side of the system. doubt you could over heat the cooling system on a bus without having engine cooling issues - theres too much water to heat up. check everything works properly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 17:02
Whale, are you running an oil temperature gauge? If so, how hot is the oil getting when you think the water is too hot? It has taken me a while to get to the bottom of stabilising my oil temperature though I think I have now finally sorted it.

When I originally fitted the oil temp gauge I found that it could easily reach 110* if pushed on the motorway and especially if then faced with a gradient (like the A38 west out of Exeter!) Since I had one to hand I fitted one of Brickwerks oil cooler kits which was designed for the very hot turbo diesel engines. With this fitted the oil never got above 70* until I took out the 'stat and then it went back to 110+*. (At low temps the stat allows oil to go straight back to the engine from the filter. At higher temps it forces it to divert through the cooler.)

At the third try I now have a 92-104* waxstat installed (just before leaving for Busfest) and the temperature now sits happily within a few degrees either side of 95*. No significant variation if pushing on at 70-75 or if brought to a sudden standstill in heavy traffic.

I reckon the Brickwerks cooler is greatly oversized for this application and one could use a much smaller set-up - using 1/2" instead of 5/8" pipe and probably half the cooler area.

The connection with the water temperature going high is shown by this experience. In the last couple of weeks when the weather was very warm I did a long motorway run, without the stat in the oil cooler system. The oil ran up around the 110* and, although the temp gauge remained at normal, there was a considerable amount of heat coming through the floor around the gearstick. My left foot got 'cooked'. This heat can only be from the air passing through the radiator, suggesting that it was having to work very hard to keep the engine temp down. In a different vehicle with a partially blocked radiator one could easily see the radiator being overwhelmed.

So, what's to do? I would suggest giving the radiator a good flushing out (or replace it if necessary), maybe drive a bit more gently (hard to do with the GTi response under the pedal Smile) or maybe fit a oil temp gauge and a cooler.

Garyd
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whale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 22:27
firstly gary thanks for the guide, brilliant.
i'd read about the oil temp debate somewhere else on here which some ignore.
as for guages, i have a speedo! ignorance aint quite bliss maybe.
therm and dalek changed, 205's on the rear. will work through the rad give it a run and report back.

cheers all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orcecaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 23:13
Interesting. Gary where abouts have you mounted your oil cooler rad? any chance of a picture. Its not surprising yours got hot climbing up the A38 up past Devon & Exeter racecourse, thats a long drag.
I need to look at keeping mine cool (running a Syncro 2.1 WBX) at the moment, and temperatures here can be bloody high plus there are some monster hills around. We are at 1000mtr above sea level.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 13 at 19:30
My oil radiator is mounted in front of the water radiator, behind the lower grille. This is the location recommended by Brickwerks for their kit but, as I said, the kit is intended for very hot running turbo diesels.

I suspect that the GTi engine could get away with a smaller oil rad and maybe even mounted low in the front of the engine bay to pick up air coming under the van and past the right hand drive shaft. This applies especially for a 2wd van where you should not be too worried about it collecting mud and muck when off-road.

Another possible location would be behind a rear light to collect the air coming in the rear corner vents and down to the engine bay. For either of these the fact that the oil gets hot at high road speed is good as it also means there will be plenty of air flow to effect cooling.

It's a while since I dealt with a 2.1 engine bay so can't think where all the ancillaries are mounted and where the spaces are.

Hope this helps.
Garyd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orcecaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 13 at 21:16
Well I think its going to be up frony for me. How much extra oil capacity did you find it added to your system?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 13 at 19:48
Given the large diameter hoses and the significant radiator, it takes about an extra litre of oil.

I am going to need an oil change shortly and I'm wondering whether to bother to disconnect and drain the cooler circuit or just drain the sump. Probably best to do the whole thing but much easier to leave the hoses untouched.
Garyd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orcecaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 13 at 21:22
If you get it up to temp will it not pass the stat and drain back to the sump? Actually, whats to stop that happening anyway if the rads higher than the engine? Has the stat got a non return valve in it?


Edited by orcecaveman - 13 Sep 13 at 21:23


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 13 at 15:53
The take off points for the hoses are fairly high in the engine bay (above the oil filter). The hoses then drop down to follow the radiator hoses along the chassis rails to the front. The oil rad is right at the bottom of the main rad and so is still lower than the filter. This whole cooler route creates a downwards loop from just about the highest point on the oil circuit.

Probably the only sensible way to drain it will be to disconnect one hose at a time from the cooler rad and let it run out from there.

I understand that, in normal operation, the cooler loop remains full of oil - still when 'cold' and flowing when 'hot'.
Garyd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 17 at 19:12
quick update.. it was the rad, I can now drive without the heating on fullSmile
oil temp is another matter..
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