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Gearboxes: AAP or ABR with taller 5th.

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aaboggis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gearboxes: AAP or ABR with taller 5th.
    Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 18:42
I bought a t3 which had a knackered 1.6D engine, so I (well, a trusted mechanic really) put a 1.9D IY engine in it and it runs fantastically. The only problem is that it only has a 4-speed gearbox and I daren't go over 90km/h (55 mph) for fear of blowing up the engine due to 'overrevving'.

With my limited knowledge, I thought the best idea would be to put in a 5-speed gearbox to  be able to go 60 - 70 mph on a motorway, for example, without risking the engine.  My questions are the following:

Has anyone done this and could advise me through experience?

Do I have to change the gearbox or are there any ways of modifying my current one?

If I need another gearbox, where is the best place to look? Does anyone have one they want to sell?

Thanks in advance for any help
Aaron

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Edited by aaboggis - 24 Jan 13 at 19:38
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Vanorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote booted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 19:47
Someone will correct me if im wrong but top in a 5 speed is likely to be very similar to a 4speed what you need is a petrol box

I could be talking bollox as its a non turbo

Edited by booted - 19 Jan 13 at 19:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhysdubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 23:17
I had same problems with my van (1.7). 4th Gear mysteriously disappeared and to this day I dont know where it went or what happened. I went down the Aircooled DK box option, with the RJES gearbox mount and aircooled linkages. DK's are starting to become a rarity, however it made such difference to the revs. Im probably at around 3500 doing 70? It struggles to pull in 4th though doing 30mph. It has a much higher last gear ratio. 
The problem with the 5spd is your only changing gear more often. They are not as strong as 4spds too. With your 1.9 maybe go down the A4/Passat gearbox route if your thinking 5 spd.
If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.
"Better To Be Pissed Off Than To Be Pissed On"
1989 1.7D DK Box "Dylan"
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aaboggis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 13 at 08:49
The things that the van could go more than 55.  I had it up to 70 at one point, but, as you can imagine, the revs were really high and it wouldn't have been happy to do it for very long.

So, it would be able to do 70 with a 5th gear, but with less revs, wouldn't it?  
I'm happy with 70, but, as you've said, my 4-speed is strong and good through the gears.

The option about a A4/Passat gearbox sounds good as it should be easier to find one, but fitting it sounds complicated with my limited knowledge. I've seen there's a post for this recently.

Is it as complicated as it sounds?

Thanks for the replies so far.
Aaron

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Edited by aaboggis - 24 Jan 13 at 19:38
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aaboggis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 19:36
Well, as you'll can see, I have a new nickname and photo given to me by an unknown source. I will be keeping them both as I think I deserve them. LOL To cut a long story short, I actually have a 5-speed ABR gearbox which doesn't give me much top end speed as it has a diff ration of 5.5 and the tallest gear at a ratio of 0.816. 

I asked about changing it for the AAP and timmythedog told me this would be a good idea. Now, the company in Spain that I'm talking to about the modification have offered me another option and I wanted to know which would be the best.

Option 1) change the ABR to a diesel-modified AAP with diff ratio of 4.57. Price 1300 euros

Option 2) replace the 5th gear pinion to one the gives me a ratio of 0.74. Price approx 700 euros

I personally don't see that the replacing of the pinion will change things as much as putting in the AAP, even though the company say that it will be more or less the same. Anyway, I'm learning (as you can see from the photo) and would like a more expert opinion before getting my cash out.

Cheers
Aaron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrhutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 20:30
or 
option 3) source a DK box and linkage and get your mechanics to fit it.  it does take a bit of fiddling about but is well worth it.  A few of us on here have done it (Me, Rhys, Steve Fuffle etc..)

Box cost abouT30-350 fitting takes a few hours but you also have a 5 speed diesel box to sell on.
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 21:52
Good, that gives me more possibilties. I'll get looking. Which do you think is the best of the first two options?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 22:15
The 3H doesn't look too bad either. What's it like?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 13 at 19:20
In the end it seems I'm going to stick with my ABR, but modify it with a 29/7 ring and pinion to give it a differential ratio of 4.14.

Can anyone tell me if this would be a bad idea?  I can't see why, but perhaps there's something I haven't seen.  Would it be much slower though the gears with my 1Y engine?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T3ADICT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 13 at 01:28
 
i used a DT 4 speed gearbox on my last van.
the only thing you have to be carefull of with a 1Y engine ls you dont have that much power to play with.
the dt box i used had the 4,57  final drive like an AAP  but the 4 gear was not as tall as the aap´s 5 gear.
 
really this box ended up being a bit too tall for the power of a 1y engine. fine on the flat once up to speed but hills were very slow..
 
drove the van down to barcelona.. 60 65 mph was posible on flat roads more if it had time to keep gradualy getting faster but the lack of power was real proof that the box was too tall.
 
i intended to upgrade the engine with an AAZ Diesel pump and injectors plus a turbo.. hence fitting a tall ratio box..
if you have no lonterm engine upgrades planned then a 3h gearbox sould suite fine.
 
i think the 1y had about the same bhp as a 1.6td that would normaly be fitted to a 3h box but the 1.6 td  i think has more torque..
 
Tee3  has a 4.14  fitted to his van but i think that is with a tuned AAZ engine..
maybe ask him what sort of power his engine is making and how well it suites the 4,14 final drive.
 
 
 
 
WHY T3's.... because they are just so adictive, and having one just aint enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrhutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 13 at 07:30
I would concur with Chris ^^

Having too tall a gearbox is a real pain.  I was on the cusp with my 2.0 GTi + DK + Oversized tyres
3500 rpm gave 68 mph on GPS..

would happlilly cruise at 70 but long hills meant a change down to 3rd, which felt like a long leap.  The GTi (115 bhp) wouldn't pull quickly in 4th.  

3H or DK sounds about right with proper sized tyres
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 13 at 09:38
Thanks for all the help.

I have decided to put in a 3H and if one day I put a turbo in or something I can modify it then.  Now I just have to find one.  You don't know anyone with one knocking around.

I will also have an ABR (for what it's worth) to sell on. Good gearbox for a 1.6D or I'll keep it in case as a spare.

Cheers again
Aaron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaboggis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 13 at 09:48
By the way, could I put 205/80/r14 on my standard t3 rims? Would it be advisable?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrhutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 13 at 09:53
I think you're doing the right thing.  My turboed 1Y with oversized tyres (12% IIRC) used a 3H box, so you will be fine with stock/slightly oversized tyres.
T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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