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1979 LT35 - ? should I go LPG or diesel

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1day View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 14:45
Hi

Just signed up, hello everybody :-)

I recently bought a 1979 LT35 2.0 petrol motorhome (advantura conversion).

Drives really nicely, but, is really heavy on fuel (15 mpg) and very slow (40mph) on long steep hills.

I've been wondering about converting to LPG for economy (I want to drive to Hungary this year), and the ability to run the internal fittings from LPG as well (water heater, fridge and cooker).

the cost seems quite high though (circa £1400).

So I'm wondering about changing the engine to a diesel, perhaps even a more modern turbo diesel.... but, have no idea what what be involved in this, what engines might fit, and other things like would I have to change the gearbox as well?

Also, not sure if the diesel would be much more fuel efficient anyway given the frontal area and weight of the vehicle when it's loaded up with people and kit.  I have no idea what sort MPG do the LT35 diesels achieve ?

any help and advice gratefully received :-)

thanks
Jamie
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funky_monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 15:08
i haved just dropped a 2.4 turbo diesel in my lt, (i say droped, more like gently persuaded) i had the same engine before but non turbo, but it isn`t a job for some one with out the time or money,  but on hills where i did 25 mph i now do 70, and it does 25 mpg rather than 17,  but will cost alot more than lpg conversion, good luck 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1day Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 15:36
wow - that was a quick reply :-)

thanks for the info.

I'm happy to spend more than the LPG conversion, and the speed and MPG are the real issues, if I could do 70 on the flat it would be a lot better (if a little scary :lol:)

25mpg sounds much more like what I need tbh, 15 mpg makes everything a little expensive.

can i ask you how much you spent changing the engine (did you do the work or get somebody else to do it?  I'll have to pay somebody as I don't have the knowledge, time or equipment to do it)

cheers
jamie


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 16:25
I've got a little bit of LPG experience (fitting/using although not with LTs) and I would probably also advise the diesel route in this case. Although it would be neat to have the source of LPG as a fuel for cooking, running on LPG will not improve the performance unless you carry out serious engine modifications and use it as the only fuel! Plus you may well run into problems on LPG if your ignition system is not in top notch condition.

The other point to note is that the later 6 cylinder engines are not a straightforward swap as whole floorpan is different (I learnt this only last week from one of the more knowledgeable LT owners on here). But everything is possible!
Mid engined, 6 cylinder, turbocharged 2 seater - it can only be a VW LT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 16:33
I'm gonna be controversial. A properly maintained and serviced 2litre engine isn't that bad - and will happily push a 1979 LT 'off the clock' (I know a guy with a high top on his who has taken it well past the 90 mark)
 
I'd suggest getting your engine properly serviced and tuned up - and then fitting LPG to it. £1400 does sound a little steep for yours - as it is a Carb'ed motor, I think if you shop around you should be able to get a cheaper price than that! Try http://www.gasure.co.uk - if they can't help you themselves, they may be able to point you in the direction of someone who can!
 
You'll find that LPG gives a much greater equivalent MPG than diesel, cost wise - and is a simpler conversion. The earlier 2 litre engines are smaller and mount differently to the later diesel engines - and it will be a tight fit getting a later engine in your engine bay. Anything is possible though - but I'd advise it.
 
You also won't be lumbered with the LEZ - which, living in/near london, is a serious consideration for you. With an LT diesel engine - you'll have to pay £100 a day or thereabouts to drive within London, as of next year or thereabouts!
 
For reference - LT diesels achieve around 20-28mpg usually - depending how / where you drive them...


Edited by icky - 02 Jul 10 at 16:39
Engine cranes = the ultimate tool to test the tensile strength of Everything you didn't disconnect!

- 2000 MK4 Golf GT TDi
- 1994 LT Panel Van
- 1997 LT Minibus
- 1984 Volvo/VanHool Alizee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 23:45
Interesting thoughts - if the 2 litre lump is capable of reasonable speeds then the LPG conversion starts to make more sense. Never had any experience of one myself.
My understanding of the LEZ though is that it just affects commercial vehicles, so a  proper motorhome would be OK on diesel if I am correct.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
Mid engined, 6 cylinder, turbocharged 2 seater - it can only be a VW LT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1day Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 10 at 12:14
thanks for the advice everybody.

I think I should start with getting her running properly with the existing engine setup, so now looking for a south west london (kingston area) workshop that
(a) can fit her into their workshop (she is 10ft tall, 7.6ft wide and 19.6 ft long)
(b) is prepared to work on a 1979 vehicle

Any suggestions / recommendations ?

In the meantime I've emailed about 5 LPG conversion companies asking for a quote including an extra tank for running the internal appliances.

I figure that whilst diesel would be good for uphill speed, the extra mileage range I will get from having two sources of engine fuel available on a long run (meaning less frequent stops) may well l equate to the same thing journey time wise.

re: economy, no doubt a diesel will improve MPG, but, maybe not by that much as the frontal area of the motorhome is the main problem (I think).   Also, LPG conversion (inc appliances) will add to the re-sale price, but, I doubt that I would recover the same proportion of expenditure made on a diesel.

LPG will be cheaper than diesel / petrol for at least another 5 years (i reckon), so, combined with the internal appliance convenience (and not running out as quickly when in a field away from all services) and slight saving on butane bottles this seems to push it in that direction.

and finally, I think the LPG option is do-able this month (if I get my skates on), whereas the diesel option will probably take months to get sorted, and requires a lot more work.

this thread has really helped me think clearly and make my mind up, thank you everybody :-)




 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 10 at 13:02
No need to get a separate LPG tank for appliances (although may be better to save worrying about running out when you get to your destination after a long journey on gas). You can (could?) get LPG tanks with a separate vapour take off as well as the liquid take off for running the engine on.
Mid engined, 6 cylinder, turbocharged 2 seater - it can only be a VW LT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 10 at 15:21
Re LEZ
 
It applies to campers as well as commercials.  Any old diesel LT will be in trouble if they go through with present plans. 
1989 LT31 Florida 2.4TD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 16:05
Hi, LPG fits with ease into the 2l engine bay.
 
 
 
 
What I'm not sure about is if a 6 cylinder engine would fit without major alterations to the floor etc..
 
Would like to see pictures of one doe if someone has them :)
 
I've got a coachbuilt van and after checking everything is set up correctly i guess I'm not going to get much past 55 on the flat :(
 
Can't be anything else to check now.
 
Checked and/or fixed:-
 
Plugs
Leads
Dizzy
Points
Coil
Carb
Choke
LPG mix
Petrol mix
Emissions
Timing
Valve clearance
water and cooling.
 
The only thing i can't fix is the aerodynamics Wacko
 


Edited by The_blue - 05 Jul 10 at 16:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 19:29

Roger / The_blue said everything I wanted to say...

I think LPG is the way to go!
Engine cranes = the ultimate tool to test the tensile strength of Everything you didn't disconnect!

- 2000 MK4 Golf GT TDi
- 1994 LT Panel Van
- 1997 LT Minibus
- 1984 Volvo/VanHool Alizee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mat_the_cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 19:47
I stand corrected on the LEZ, sorry. Given that fact I'm swinging more towards LPG now...as it will cope with a higher compression ratio than petrol will, how about a switchable supercharger (like Mad Max) that engages when you switch onto gas. Couple that with a decent gas injection system and you should be laughing!
Mid engined, 6 cylinder, turbocharged 2 seater - it can only be a VW LT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1day Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 21:00
Originally posted by mat_the_cat mat_the_cat wrote:

I stand corrected on the LEZ, sorry. Given that fact I'm swinging more towards LPG now...as it will cope with a higher compression ratio than petrol will, how about a switchable supercharger (like Mad Max) that engages when you switch onto gas. Couple that with a decent gas injection system and you should be laughing!
 
NO2 is the way forward, could even entertain the passengers on long journeys :-)
(only joking obviously)
 
I got a quote today from Profess Autogas for £700 inc VAT, but another £350 for the extra tank to run the appliances.   may well go for it, but have booked her into southern carbeurettors in wimbledon for an engine tune first, so not sure I'll have time to get it to Wales before 31st july departure to Hungary...
 
also bought a carb service kit today for £25 which will hopefully improve things, waiting for a friend to come round and "supervise" me doing the carb, dont want to screw it up (I hate messign with carbs).
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funky_monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 10 at 18:25
Originally posted by 1day 1day wrote:

wow - that was a quick reply :-)

thanks for the info.

I'm happy to spend more than the LPG conversion, and the speed and MPG are the real issues, if I could do 70 on the flat it would be a lot better (if a little scary :lol:)

25mpg sounds much more like what I need tbh, 15 mpg makes everything a little expensive.

can i ask you how much you spent changing the engine (did you do the work or get somebody else to do it?  I'll have to pay somebody as I don't have the knowledge, time or equipment to do it)

cheers
jamie


Sorry late reply this time. it cost me £3500-£4000  to recon everything, I used the engine from a volvo 740 (same engine vw supplyed to volvo) and did all the fitting my self, i dont recomend getting some one to do it for you it takes quite along time and a few head aches,
 
 The stuf I had rebuilt or bought new;  turbo, diesel pump, new pistons, new clutch, new glow plugs, brand new head, new radiator (as mine leaked when i replaced it,) had to get a sump from a turbo lt, (in some lt`s a volvo sump will fit depending on the cross member.)
 
I had to remove the off side engine mount with grinder and weld new bracket to fit a mount from a turbo LT as turbo wont fit otherwise, and extend a oil return to the sump and cut hole in the cross member for the oil return to fit. 
 
I have photos of the whole job if any one is interested, 
Phil
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