Front Stub Axle Issues |
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Posted: 24 Jun 16 at 10:16 |
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So.. I messed up my stub axle by putting on a wrong size wheel bearing.
I have got 2 replacements from Volksmagic, both the garage wouldn't fit as they said they were no better. The problem, they say, is that the bearing should sit on the stub axle and not rotate, only the actual bearings inside the wheel bearing should rotate - the inner ring should be static. This causes excess heat and bearings can last miles rather than years. I understand this, but Volksmagic say that I won't get anything better as they aren't made anymore. and my garage should stop being so fussy. They have sold loads like this and they are always fine.... Is this dangerous? I don't know what to do? Sounds like my garage want me to write off my van for the lack of a stub axle. argh thanks for any help
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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rowlesy
Vanorak murdered the murderwagen Joined: 09 Oct 05 Location: up unit! Status: Offline Points: 6466 |
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find somebody else that knows what there doing.......
and how can you fit a wrong sized bearing? what did you buy? |
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UberFukz broke another! sucky sucky five dollah!
always out numbered never out gunned! RWS welding 07846 380 467 (worcs) |
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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There are 2 types. VWH has one which is from 84 onwards (https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/251498625/wheel-bearing-kit-T3-front-7-84/) and mine was an 83. I think it's just slightly too large so it span freely on the axle and scored or sanded down the metal as it span, giving way in maybe 50 miles.
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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251-498-625 I think I need.
VWH list this part as "Wheel bearing kit T3 Front >7/84". which to me means after (thats the greater than sign, not the up to sign). Which confused me I guess. I stupidly bought "Front wheel bearing kit, T3 8/84- 251498625AS" |
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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czm
Groupie Joined: 28 Feb 09 Status: Offline Points: 134 |
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**
Edited by czm - 28 Jun 16 at 16:56 |
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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So, I contacted Julian at partsemporium.co.uk and it seems all of his have the same problem. He agreed its not a good thing to fit if the bearing spins freely.
I guess the next step is to have one machined? this is ridiculous.
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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tellytubby
Groupie Joined: 29 Mar 16 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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If it's only a small amount of clearance you could try something like loctite 270 on the stub axle to glue the inner race on. Admittedly I've never tried it on a vehicle but I use this on various machines when the fit is too loose and haven't had any problems yet.
Machining to fit the available bearings is the ideal but as you will need to sleeve the axle you'll almost certainly end up using an adhesive of some sort anyway. |
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Glue! Blimey OK tellytubby, good idea. I worry that it might not sit perfectly in place but i guess if I mounted it before the glue sets and got it into position it might help... hmm food for thought
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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Bromy
Vanorak Joined: 26 Feb 12 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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Got any photos? You could possibly sleeve the worn journal or metal spray it. 270 loctite won't take up any tolerance but will hold it tight if it's not too worn. What does it measure?
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"follow the masses, do the opposite"
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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The plot thickens, I am now even more confused.
I got a stub axle (apparently old) from volksmagic and a wheel bearing (old) from heritage... ...but when i put them together they dont fit (see pic below). This doesn't make sense to me as both the old and new inner bearing sizes seem identical? new: Weight: 0.4040 kg Outer bearing 22x45.236 Inner bearing 41x68x17.6 Hub Seal 55x68x8 old: Weight: 0.4040 kg Outer bearing 19.05x45.237 Inner Bearing 41x68x17.6 Seal 55x68x8 Am i just not jamming it on hard enough? Will it fit when pushed on using the weight of a wheel? Thanks, Will Edited by williamkay - 07 Jul 16 at 11:48 |
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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Bromy
Vanorak Joined: 26 Feb 12 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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The bearing is an iterference fit on the shaft, it should not just slide on, ideally you need a bearing heater which will heat the inner race causing very slight expansion to slide on the shaft then shrink back to a snug fit once cooled. Other ways include dropping the bearing in boiling oil for a few mins or the crude way, hammer and drift making sure you only hit the race
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"follow the masses, do the opposite"
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Based on my past experience, a couple of things can happen here.
Stub axles can wear, due to bearing fatigue over time which can allow the outer race to move on the stub axle. The result is marginally undersized stub axle diameter. Solution is engineering adhesive to lock the bearing in place on the stub axle. Apply during assembly, and it will go off once it's all built up. There's very little rotational force on the outer race once it's loaded, as the bearing is the 'slip point'. Engineering adhesive is widely used in my industry to lock bearing races in place. Second scenario is a tight fit Usually caused due to surface defects or pickup sometimes due to almost invisible corrosion, sometime due to mechanical abuse (not suggesting this is the case here!). Solution is a light rub over with a fine crocus or wet and dry (dry) paper. A light/very fine file can be used to work on high spots. Clean scrupulously afterwards. I've had both scenarios with the latest needing bearing adhesive - that was six odd years ago and she's still going strong. Edited by Chappy - 07 Jul 16 at 21:19 |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Thanks for all the help guys. My worry would be gettint it back off when the bearings need changing again?
I have sourced another one so will see if that is any better.
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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Bromy
Vanorak Joined: 26 Feb 12 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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Same process, heat it up with a torch or punch it off with a drift or a set of bearing pullers if you can get your hands on some
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"follow the masses, do the opposite"
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Red Westie
Yardie Joined: 23 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 567 |
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The 'outer race' of both inner and outer bearings IS an 'interference fit' also called 'press fit' These 'loose' races are pressed or punched in to the disc. The inner 'fixed' race is part of the taper roller bearing and is NOT an interference fit. It does have a clearance to the stub axle, albeit a small one. Spinning inner bearing races can wear down the stub axle resulting in excessive clearance. Martin
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shelly
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williamkay
Groupie Joined: 11 May 15 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Yep, thats what I thought. The outer ones should spin with the wheel and I had to punch them into the hub for a snug fit. The inner ones should not spin and should sit nicely on the axle, not spin, but also not be forced on. Anyway thanks for all this, I am making progress, it will be sorted one way or another. Will
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Will, 1983 VW T3 Caravelle 78PS 1.9 DG Engine, Watercooled
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Bromy
Vanorak Joined: 26 Feb 12 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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Have another look at the photo red westie. That is the inner race with rollers and casing, the inner race ie the id of the race should not spin on the stub shaft. The rollers are the slip point. Again with the outer race (race only) should not spin in the hub.
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"follow the masses, do the opposite"
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Bromy
Vanorak Joined: 26 Feb 12 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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Your post seems to contradict yourself. I think the confusion came from myself calling the 'inner' outer race the inner race Edited by Bromy - 14 Jul 16 at 13:38 |
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"follow the masses, do the opposite"
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Red Westie
Yardie Joined: 23 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 567 |
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Agreed....but then I never said it should spin on the stub axle, just that is wasn't an interference fit as you stated earlier. Martin
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shelly
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