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T5.1 Gearbox in a T5
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Idris View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Feb 20 at 20:11
Would a gearbox from at T5.1 or for that matter a T6 fit in a T5? Specificaly a 1.9. I was under the impression that the 2.0 in the newer vans ws very similar (in terms of mounting) to the 1.9.
Tring to find the easiest way of putting a 6 speed in my 5 speed van. I know the one out of the 2.5 is possible but difficult.
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Why do you wish to replace a T5 box
with T5.1 / T6 box please Idris?
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Idris View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 14:37
Originally posted by Charlie Dog Charlie Dog wrote:

Why do you wish to replace a T5 box
with T5.1 / T6 box please Idris?
To  get a 6 speed - and maybe even 4wd (I live in the alps and I know the rest of the conversion is just swapping bits)
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Idris View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 14:38
Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Originally posted by Charlie Dog Charlie Dog wrote:

Why do you wish to replace a T5 box
with T5.1 / T6 box please Idris?
To  get a 6 speed - and maybe even 4wd (I live in the alps and I know the rest of the conversion is just swapping bits)

Eventually this one will die (its an ex post office van thats been thrashed) and there are loads more 5.1 and later vans where I live
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Originally posted by Charlie Dog Charlie Dog wrote:

Why do you wish to replace a T5 box
with T5.1 / T6 box please Idris?
To  get a 6 speed - and maybe even 4wd (I live in the alps and I know the rest of the conversion is just swapping bits)

I'm pleasantly surprised the rest is just swapping bits,
I expected you would need to tell the ECU.

And, perhaps even reprogram the ECU
so it knew to change 6 gears instead of 5,
and to match the change point
to the different engine.

How does it know if you don't need to tell it please?
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Points: -998266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 02:03
Going from manual to DSG would be a "challenging" job, and going from FWD to AWD is another complex exercise.  If going from manual to manual it would be less difficult.
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Going from manual to DSG would be a "challenging" job, and going from FWD to AWD is another complex exercise.  If going from manual to manual it would be less difficult.

Thank you for explaining that for us Greg.

Engines with narrower power bands and 
boxes with more gears go hand in hand 
from my end of the scope.

With the risk that, after all the work,
one wastes more time / power on time
changing gear than one gains by having
a better choice of cog for the grade.

Or has that changed with modern engines?
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Points: -998266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 08:11
Often a 6 speed (or 7 speed) 'box has a higher top gear for lower engine revs = better fuel economy when highway cruising.  But this will only work if the engine has enough torque to work in the higher gear.
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Idris View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 20 at 12:00
Not wanting to put in a DSG , keeping it manual I don't need to tell the ecu anything. As for adding 4wd I put 4wd in a T4, yeah a lot of work but just swapping parts (Had a crashed 2.4 and a working 2.5TDi).
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Points: -998266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 20 at 12:04
Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Not wanting to put in a DSG , keeping it manual I don't need to tell the ecu anything. As for adding 4wd I put 4wd in a T4, yeah a lot of work but just swapping parts (Had a crashed 2.4 and a working 2.5TDi).

I would think there would need to be some work on replacing or re-coding ECUs (eg for traction control & stability control for starters, also sensors for transmission errors).  But I might be wrong ...
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Often a 6 speed (or 7 speed) 'box has a higher top gear for lower engine revs = better fuel economy when highway cruising.  But this will only work if the engine has enough torque to work in the higher gear.

I've found the idea of better fuel economy
from taller cogs ain't necessarily true Greg.

On one or two occasions, 
taller cogs reduced mpg.

Higher speeds inevitably use more fuel.
Another part of trick, is to match
speed to your engine's most economical revs.
 


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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Not wanting to put in a DSG , keeping it manual I don't need to tell the ecu anything. As for adding 4wd I put 4wd in a T4, yeah a lot of work but just swapping parts (Had a crashed 2.4 and a working 2.5TDi).

I would think there would need to be some work on replacing or re-coding ECUs (eg for traction control & stability control for starters, also sensors for transmission errors).  But I might be wrong ...

My money's on you Greg.
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Idris View Drop Down
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Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Not wanting to put in a DSG , keeping it manual I don't need to tell the ecu anything. As for adding 4wd I put 4wd in a T4, yeah a lot of work but just swapping parts (Had a crashed 2.4 and a working 2.5TDi).

I would think there would need to be some work on replacing or re-coding ECUs (eg for traction control & stability control for starters, also sensors for transmission errors).  But I might be wrong ...

No Sensors on the gearbox, it's a base model, only wire is reverse light witch and that only goes to the lights not anything else. Speed is taken from the ABS sensor. Why would the computer know I've changed the gearbox or even care.
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Points: -998266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 20 at 01:42
Manual to manual should definitely be much simpler than manual to DSG , what sensors are there on both manual 'boxes ?  If there are any telling an ECU which gear it is in they might be used by the stability Control program.  If the sensors are the same for both 'boxes then less likely to have problems.

Edited by gregozedobe - 01 Mar 20 at 01:46
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Originally posted by Idris Idris wrote:

Not wanting to put in a DSG , keeping it manual I don't need to tell the ecu anything. As for adding 4wd I put 4wd in a T4, yeah a lot of work but just swapping parts (Had a crashed 2.4 and a working 2.5TDi).

I would think there would need to be some work on replacing or re-coding ECUs (eg for traction control & stability control for starters, also sensors for transmission errors).  But I might be wrong ...

No Sensors on the gearbox, it's a base model, only wire is reverse light witch and that only goes to the lights not anything else. Speed is taken from the ABS sensor. Why would the computer know I've changed the gearbox or even care.  There's a widely held theory that engineers do it out of spite.
And another theory that reckons engineers do it to keep the money rolling in to main agents :o)
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Points: -998266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 20 at 09:22
Ahh, I remember the old days when there were no computers and very few sensors in cars, give them 12v and an earth and they were happy.  I once swapped a (less worn) motor & 'box into a 1967 Corolla and after I sorted out the engine mounts, throttle cable and a new hole for the gear lever we were away :)

Mind you, I wouldn't want to go back to those days, I seem to recall I was frequently cleaning the points, setting the ignition timing, adjusting the valve clearances and re-adjusting the drum brakes ....


Edited by gregozedobe - 02 Mar 20 at 09:23
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

Ahh, I remember the old days when there were no computers and very few sensors in cars, give them 12v and an earth and they were happy.  I once swapped a (less worn) motor & 'box into a 1967 Corolla and after I sorted out the engine mounts, throttle cable and a new hole for the gear lever we were away :)

Mind you, I wouldn't want to go back to those days, I seem to recall I was frequently cleaning the points, setting the ignition timing, adjusting the valve clearances and re-adjusting the drum brakes ....

My sixpence says you tinkered with your car
because you enjoyed tinkering with your car Greg :o)
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gregozedobe View Drop Down
Vanorak
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Points: -998266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 20 at 00:21
You'd lose your sixpence ...

I didn't have much spare money back then, so that meant I had to buy cheaper, older cars and maintain them myself.  I preferred reliable cars so I had to keep on top of maintenance.  

These days I have more spare money, so I prefer to pay someone else (a trusted indy) to maintain my cars.


Edited by gregozedobe - 03 Mar 20 at 00:22
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Charlie Dog View Drop Down
Yardie
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Originally posted by gregozedobe gregozedobe wrote:

You'd lose your sixpence ... :o)

I didn't have much spare money back then, so that meant I had to buy cheaper, older cars and maintain them myself.  I preferred reliable cars so I had to keep on top of maintenance.  

These days I have more spare money, so I prefer to pay someone else (a trusted indy) to maintain my cars.
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