1Y Timing after head rebuild - any suggestions |
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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jaber
Groupie Joined: 25 Sep 14 Location: derbyshire Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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Fwiw it did run fairly quiet with no smoke the head that is before I removed engine
Steve
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take yer time there's a second prize
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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It’s settled down a bit now after being run for a while at idle and allowing it to warm up. Timing has been checked and rechecked. Starts much better, much quieter. Still very smoky though, and it hunts at idle which requires the idle to be turned up a little to prevent it. Edited by Chappy - 23 Mar 19 at 15:38 |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Edited by Chappy - 23 Mar 19 at 16:12 |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Grrrrrr....still got issues. Hard to start - idles well when started though, but smoking excessively. Injectors changed, but it's the same. Timing has been set three times over now using the prescribed locking methods (TDC on bellhousing/clutch - with physical verification of number 1 piston at top of stroke; pump locked with pin through pulley into pump body; camshaft plate installed) then pump timing adjusted with a DTI (to 35 thou). There's no way it should be that hard to start and it ran very well before the head issue so I suspect something else is amiss. Compression test planned for this week. |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Have you checked all glow plugs are working and that they are getting power to them? IDI engines need glow plugs to start quickly and cleanly.
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Yep, all new were installed - it tested them all before installation just in case; and I've checked each one in operation with a multimeter. I suppose I could pop the injectors out and take a quick look for absolute certainly. They'll have to come out for the compression test anyway. |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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ob1
Yardie FOUND IT, IT WAS HIDING! Joined: 11 May 08 Status: Offline Points: 732 |
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Was piston pertrusion measured? Correct head gasket fitted and or was the head skimmed?
I’m thinking there’s an issue with compression and or valve piston contact. And engine can turn over by hand on but just make contact when running IME anyway! Heat and the momentum of pistons.
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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The head wasn’t skimmed - it was examined and was in serviceable condition. I’m of the same mind OB - I think there is something more fundamental amiss. I’ll report back once the compression test is done.
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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912
Yardie Joined: 13 Jun 16 Status: Offline Points: 268 |
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Head was visually inspected? Was it pressure tested ?
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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So - negative 912: head wasn’t pressure tested, but came from a serviceable engine and had a thorough visual inspection. It was intended as a temp ‘get us going’ measure while we sourced and prepped another engine for installation later in the year. I’ve never really been content with the turbo’d on a 1Y combo that it came with. Although I have to admit it did run very well before the damage to the glowplug boss. Compression test shows all cylinders @ 400 PSI/28bar, give or take a few PSI with little variation between cylinders. Bear in mind that the motor is cold though. Pressure builds up consistently over 3 strokes, so I suspect some position ring wear, but would expect it to improve when the motor is warm, and as said previously - it ran and started really well before the damage to the head. I’m stumped 🤔 I want to change the pump, but it seems illogical that the pump may have experienced some sort of mystery issue while the head was off and the replacement was being sourced. Edited by Chappy - 13 Apr 19 at 17:49 |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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912
Yardie Joined: 13 Jun 16 Status: Offline Points: 268 |
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How long was the head off, were the injectors or pump left without fuel in?
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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I’d say about 4 weeks 912.
Injectors were with me so kept sealed and wrapped after removal. Plenty of smelly stuff in them when I reinstalled. Pump - I’m not sure. The van wasn’t with me when the head was removed and the pump remained with the block in the van. I did swap injectors out for a set of injectors that I had of the same part number, and there was no change. Still hard to start and smoking. Edited by Chappy - 13 Apr 19 at 21:53 |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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So reading back through some posts. The start of the thread states the head was changed out because the owner
damaged the original head when removing a glowplug. So there was a
starting issue back then? Is this 1Y running a turbo? Has the original non-turbo 1Y injection pump been played around with to provide more fuel for the turbo conversion? A lack of boost issue might explain the smoke. Plenty known to be good fuel in tank? Fuel filter changed? Banjo bolts for fuel lines on injection pump in correct place with decent copper washers to provide good sealing to prevent fuel or air leaks? |
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jaber
Groupie Joined: 25 Sep 14 Location: derbyshire Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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Stick the pump that was on the engine I sent you, it ran sweet as a nut, non turbo etc
Steve
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take yer time there's a second prize
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mrhutch
Moderator Group the ginger princess Joined: 21 Aug 07 Location: Herefordshire Status: Offline Points: 5147 |
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change the pump chap..
A few years ago Scotty changed the HG on his JX, I was there, pump safely stored, clean etc... for some reason when it was put back on it wouldn't start without a tow!
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T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Fixed! At last!! |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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So, brief summary and recap: This engine was a 1Y, running a N/A pump and a JX turbo. I had run well enough for the few years that we'd had it. Cylinder head damaged beyond repair after an attempt to remove a glowplug. Head removed and scrapped. Replacement sourced, and rebuilt by yours truly. Head installed, new gsaskets and seals etc, same injectors, pump and hardware. Was a very bad starter, kncoked badly and smoked like a wartime tommy. Tried everything - all versions of timing, checked TDC, checked compression and cam position etc Tried another pump - still the same. Borrowed an AAZ pump. Same result. Changed the injectors for another set I had (same PN as original) - same result. Eventually, found another set of injectors that I'd forgot I'd had. Been on the shelf for at least 8 years, but higher pressure Turbo ones this time. Instant fix. Started on the button and no smoke. I can only summise that post cylinder head refurb, the compression was improved, and the original injectors couldn't cope. I can think of no other reason for it having run well before the glowplug issue, and run like shit after replacement of all the original standard hardware. Maybe it had other undiagnosed issues beforehand. |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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I've a hazy memory of the turbo injectors being dual stage compared to the non-turbo ones. Plus camplate ramp profiles in injection pumps might differ between turbo and NA meaning the injectors may not be cross compatible as opening pressures and spray patterns could be compromised. At least it's going now though!
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Chappy
Vanorak Arriba! Yii-hah! Joined: 08 Jul 07 Location: North O'Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
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Too right! Bloody thing had me sweating a bit! I still can't work out why it ran sweetly with NA pump and injectors before the head was damaged, but wouldn't run properly afterwards. One of life's unsolved mysteries. But as you say, at least it's going! |
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Back in the slow lane, yeah!
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