1984 1.9DG to AGG Conversion |
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rowlesy
Vanorak murdered the murderwagen Joined: 09 Oct 05 Location: up unit! Status: Offline Points: 6466 |
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i'd be inclined to give her a good run. you can do a test on the water to see if you have c0 mixed with it. usually the water port at the back fails (cylinder closest the gearbox)- the gasket rots away from the inside out starts off smoking even when hot usually noticeable when stationary then starts pussing gasses into the cooling system creating air pockets - which expand when hot and blows pipes or matrix's depending how bad it gets
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UberFukz broke another! sucky sucky five dollah!
always out numbered never out gunned! RWS welding 07846 380 467 (worcs) |
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mrhutch
Moderator Group the ginger princess Joined: 21 Aug 07 Location: Herefordshire Status: Offline Points: 5147 |
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drive it!!!
you don't say if it overheats or pressurises the system.. take it out for a burn with a friendly mate on standby for rescue.. it may be fine you need to put some load on it to make a more educated guess.. I reckon it'll be reet
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T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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fufflenarnia
Vanorak #1 Cable Shift Bitch Joined: 04 Sep 10 Location: Redhill, Surrey Status: Offline Points: 1362 |
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Whs^^^^^
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club joker 84
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Thanks for the replies guys. Decided to take it for a burn and see what happened. The good news is that I think you are right
Took it for about a 5 mile spin, including a couple of decent hills. Stopped a few times just in case to check exhaust smoke. Once it had got warmed up, the smoke looked much cleaner (it was dark mind, so was using phone torch!), definitely no water drips and it didn't smell oily. Smells a bit 'hot', but that's probably just new paint and stuff settling in. Temperature gauge sat rock steady right in the middle for the whole run, slight increase when I turned the heater off, but no more than that. All looking promising. Will do a proper fluid level check and check for oil / mayo at the weekend when it is light, and put in antifreeze if it looks good. It's just got water in at the moment in case of leaks / head gasket. I didn't want to add £30 of antifreeze to the bill if the head had gone, so have been tight and not put it in yet. Driving a LHD manual took a bit of getting used to again after driving my wife's little automatic Nissan for a year or so, but it soon came back to me. Van felt great and absolutely flies compared to the original engine! Not a rocket ship, but just feels 'right', like it is the engine the van should have had from the start. Just feels more 'modern' and much flexible to drive. It's a great conversion and I'm really pleased with it. Noise-wise it gets loud if you boot it, but nice and quiet when cruising. Think a proper wbx silencer instead of a diesel one would make it even quieter. Most noticeable noise is the fuel pump! It is all on the right rubber mounts, etc. but still quite noticeable. Little bit of fettling to do on the gear change and the clutch is a bit grabby, but is is brand new and I haven't driven a manual much recently, so it might just be me. Bit of a tidy up at the weekend and should all be done at last. If anybody wants to know more or see photos of certain bits, just ask and I'll see if I can help. The conversion is definitely doable for an average home mechanic, and you will learn a lot on the way. You can do it with a reasonably standard toolkit and a cheap engine stand. You do need to fab a few bits here and there, but nothing you can't do with a half decent vice, hacksaw, drill and a couple of files. A mate would be handy for actually getting the engine in and out, but is doable on your own. Working under cover makes this easier, but not essential. You could do the engine build up in a standard garage and fit it on the drive. I have to put my van diagonally in my workshop and open the double doors to get the rear hatch of the van open, so can be done. Just for reference and to give people an idea of costs, I will try to dig out my list of bits, where they came from and how much they were. Thanks again for all your help |
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mrhutch
Moderator Group the ginger princess Joined: 21 Aug 07 Location: Herefordshire Status: Offline Points: 5147 |
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hold on, there's no mention of my prize?
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T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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rowlesy
Vanorak murdered the murderwagen Joined: 09 Oct 05 Location: up unit! Status: Offline Points: 6466 |
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We know your the gti guru hutch
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UberFukz broke another! sucky sucky five dollah!
always out numbered never out gunned! RWS welding 07846 380 467 (worcs) |
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club joker 84
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No prizes yet! Not fully sure it works yet! Going to take it to the garage at the weekend and get them to stick the emissions tester in the expansion tank so I know for sure. Prizes on offer when definitely ok. Least i can do is get a round in.
For people who want to know the full cost of everything I have done, it comes to about £2,300. This isn't just engine-related stuff though. There are a few extras in there, like CVs etc., but this includes buying all of the diesel bits. Quite a lot of it was not strictly necessary and just made it look nicer. More still was just refreshing bits like water pump, oil cooler, etc. that i could probably have got away with. It is a pretty thorough list of everything I spent money on, so a good guide to what you could end up spending by the time you have got welding wire, paint, wire, etc. Probably could get it down to about £1,400 and obviously less again if you are already diesel. Cost break down as follows:
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fufflenarnia
Vanorak #1 Cable Shift Bitch Joined: 04 Sep 10 Location: Redhill, Surrey Status: Offline Points: 1362 |
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How's things going? Running well? Exhaust noise ok? Impressed???
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rowlesy
Vanorak murdered the murderwagen Joined: 09 Oct 05 Location: up unit! Status: Offline Points: 6466 |
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doubt any of that will need replacing in the next few years so not bad all in....
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UberFukz broke another! sucky sucky five dollah!
always out numbered never out gunned! RWS welding 07846 380 467 (worcs) |
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club joker 84
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Thanks for asking. I have hit a bit of a hold up! Giving the van a pre MOT go over and wash, when I noticed the dreaded behind-the-dildo panel was quite a lot worse than when I last looked. It's been on the 'to do' list since I got the van about 9 years ago, but it has just leapt to No. 1 by rusting right through
So it needs fixing before MOT time! Back in the workshop and out with the nibbler (brilliant tool btw!) Low panel ordered from Schofields. Very impressed by the quality of the panel. Good shape and nice and thick. Going to do a 'quick fix' for Summer using panel adhesive. Need to actually use the van again! Hoping to get this done in the evenings this week. Bodywork will hopefully get a proper going over in winter, so a quick fix is fine with me. On the cost of the conversion, I don't think it's too bad. It is a full service, new exhaust, cambelt, etc. so like you say nothing should need doing for a while (hopefully ages!). If you added up doing these sort of bits to the DG, you would probably be into the best part of £1k. Like I say, you could definitely do it cheaper.
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fufflenarnia
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Did you find you parts list for the vss? I'm getting my shit together do do my conversion shortly.
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club joker 84
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Hi there,
Yes, I did track it down. List as follows, with links: Hall sensor - I bought 2 types, and to be honest I am not sure which I used! They are cheap though, so suggest you get both and see which one works. I will see if I can dig out what I have left and let you know which one I used. First one is http://cpc.farnell.com/allegro-microsystems/a1120eua-t/hall-effect-switch-unipolar-3sip/dp/SC10233?CMP=TREML007-005 (£1.12 each) Second one is http://cpc.farnell.com/allegro-microsystems/a1101eua-t/ic-hall-effect-switch-sip-3-1101/dp/SC10230?CMP=TREML007-005 (£2.60 each) Zener diode - I went for an 11v one in case of any voltage drops etc. in the wiring. http://cpc.farnell.com/nxp/bzx79-c11/diode-zener-500mw-11v/dp/SC05704?CMP=TREML007-005 (£0.40/10) Resistors - you need 1k and 100k. I bought a bulk pack of 480 different types, but obviously you could buy individual ones for pennies. http://cpc.farnell.com/velleman-sa/k-res-e3/resistor-set-cf-1-4w-5-e3-480pc/dp/RE07594?CMP=TREML007-005 (£6.64 / pack) Breadboard - http://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/mc01010/circuit-board-95x72-780-ic-board/dp/PC01289?CMP=TREML007-005 (£0.95 each - probably enough board to make about 10 of them!) LED I already had, but something like this should be ok: http://cpc.farnell.com/kingbright/l-934gd-12v/led-resistor-3mm-green-12v/dp/SC14319 (£0.18 each) Let me know how you get on. Side of the van is fixed, so MOT next week! Will let you know what happens... One I have the MOT (fingers crossed), next plan is to see if I can get cruise control up and running. I have a set of T3 cruise control stalks with the control box and relay. Need new pedal switches (same part number as a T4 and several other VAG models), switch brackets, vacuum hose and an actuator. I have been thinking about using a Land Rover pump and actuator which all looks quite self contained. Anyone done anything similar? Any reason that the actuator can't be mounted at the pedal end rather than in the engine bay? |
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club joker 84
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Good news, van MOT'd yesterday with no advisories. Taxed it and drove to work today, and van ran great. No issues with temperature etc. so confident no head gasket problems.
What a transformation! Engine really suits the van. Plenty of torque. It makes the van much easier to drive, as it's much less fussy about what gear its in. You can even accelerate up hill! Very happy, and a big thank you to everyone who offered help and advice. Much appreciated Ben
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Bromy
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"follow the masses, do the opposite"
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fufflenarnia
Vanorak #1 Cable Shift Bitch Joined: 04 Sep 10 Location: Redhill, Surrey Status: Offline Points: 1362 |
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Good news, and thanks for the component list.
You've got more room in the engine bay to mount the cruise control gubbins. It would be difficult to get the connections you need at the front as the cable is under the van by the pedal. |
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club joker 84
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A bit of an update on this, and a bit of head scratching.
Firstly, after few days I had my first problem when the van
wouldn’t restart. Battery was flat. As there was no alternator warning light, I
put this down to a dead battery due to the van standing for so long. Put another battery in and all was well for
another couple of days and the same thing happened. Started to have a think about the alternator (still no warning
light though) and stuck a multimeter across it to find that I was only getting
just over 12V, so not charging properly.
The AGG engine came with a 70A Valeo alternator. Had a read up online and found this useful video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f56-26I6idc
and thought that I would have a go refurbishing it. Bought a new regulator, flip rings and
bearing from here, came to about £15 http://www.saverepair.com/ Also an excuse to buy another soldering iron (you need quite
a big one for this). Got this one http://cpc.farnell.com/antex/sr8w270/soldering-iron-100w/dp/SD00837?CMP=TREML007-005
£14. A bit fiddly, but certainly doable. The bushes and slip rings were definitely
knackered, so I was happy that I had found the problem. 20170425_212326
by ClubJoker84, on
Flickr Knackered bushes. 20170425_212313
by ClubJoker84, on
Flickr Knackered slip rings. It was whilst reassembling it all that I suddenly
twigged that I had been a dopey twat.
Alternators earth through their mounting bolts and body to the engine,
and I had carefully painted over all of this in an effort to make it look
nice! Doh! Anyway, duly reassembled and paint removed around mounts,
put it back on van and added an earth strap for good measure. Tested continuity between alternator body and
van body and had almost no resistance, so all good. Started van up (freshly charged battery), and
found that my alternator warning light was now working (yes!) but that the
alternator was not (noooo!). A bit more reading up on alternators, and found that they need to be ‘excited’ to start charging. The smaller terminal on the alternator needs some voltage sent to it to start things off. This comes via the warning light circuit on the dash. When you turn the ignition on, voltage is sent from the dash to the alternator, triggering the alternator. Once the alternator is working, the voltage 'out' of the alternator is greater than than the voltage in, reversing the current flow and turning off the warning led. I tested this
voltage and found I was only getting about 9v, so started to think this might
not be enough. As a quick check, I very
briefly ran a jumper wire from the large D+ terminal on the alternator to the exciter
terminal, and the engine note instantly changed as the alternator kicked in. Now getting a full 14.5v from the
alternator. Following this initial 'excitement' at a full 12v, the 9v exciter seems to be enough to start it all off. Maybe something to try if anyone else rebuilds there alternator and has trouble? Seems to need a bit more 'kick' first time around. Anyway, problem solved! The moral is don't paint over vital earthing points! Head gasket thing was still nagging at me, so bought one of
the head gasket chemical tester from ebay and found that I did actually have a leak. Bugger.
Undid exhaust, drained fluids, etc. and took the head off. Good news is that there is room to do this with
the engine still in the van. This is a
westie, so the cupboard slightly overhangs, but it is still doable. No obvious signs of any leaks, but gave it a
really thorough clean up (head and block).
New gasket set and head bolts (decent quality) were less than £60, so not too drastic. That
is for a full gasket and seal set, so pretty good value. Seeing as the head was now off, I thought
that I might as well replace the stem seals and clean up the valves. The more agriculturally minded of you will appreciate my ‘ghetto’
valve spring compressor… 20170511_232755
by ClubJoker84, on
Flickr It’s a cider press that I made last year out of a fencepost
to deal with some excess apples. A
combination of fence post frame, car jack and a bit of tube. I just put a few shims under the each valve
(i.e. at the bottom of the valves – the cylinder end) and could then compress the
springs and lift out the collets. Bloody
fiddly! More cleaning (dunked the block
in some hot water with Swarfega degreaser and left it an hour or so – came out
sparkling!). Cleaned up the valves (which weren’t too bad) using emery
paper and a drill. 20170507_154906
by ClubJoker84, on
Flickr Tried more gentle approaches, but this one seems to be the way
forward. Stayed well away from the sealing faces. Was also very careful to keep
everything in the same order! 20170511_233709 by ClubJoker84, on Flickr Also lapped the valves seeing as it was all apart. Replaced the stem seals. Followed this guy’s videos to put it all back together https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILngxEMRw2g&t=4s. Getting the head back on was a bit of twat to be
honest. It is bloody heavy and difficult
to hold over the engine bay. Best done
with a mate I would say. All torqued up
to spec and rest of engine put back together.
Oil and coolant back in (only water so far just in case). Was all super clean, flat faces etc. (measured with a straight edge) so 95% confident the gasket replacement went ok. A lot less bubbling in the coolant tank now, just water being moved by the pump. Took it for a spin and the temperature crept
up to the top of the temperature gauge after about 4 miles. Heaters full on (plenty of hot air coming
out) and temperature hardly moved down at all.
No flashing light, but I was babying it! I noticed that there was a broken fuse to the radiator fan, replaced that and jumped radiator fan switch to turn it permanently on for drive home (was definitely on!). Strange thing was that this made no difference to temp reading, which climbed straight back up. Made it home and had a poke around at the engine. Bottom hose to water pump was staying cool, so I thought thermostat had died. Took it out to see if it made any difference. Pipe now gets warm, but temperature climbed and again, jumping the fan made no real difference. Definitely did not have to put in the full 16lt of coolant, more like 8lt? But it really didn’t seem to be able to take any more, despite doing all the revving it etc. as recommended by Baxter. Rad is bled and hot right to top. Measured blocks using Vagcom whilst it was running and it says that the coolant temperature gets up to about 90degrees when the gauge is up at the top. Jumping the fan brings it down on vagcom pretty quick. Putting on the heater also brings it down. Tested the thermostat that I took out on the stove and it
opened up fine! So, any ideas???? Is this just a temperature gauge
malfunction?? Was ok before all the d1cking
about, but things have been plugged and unplugged a few times since! Or is it
something more serious?? |
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bmouthboyo
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 24 Feb 11 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Wow what an amazingly detailed writeup! I am upgrading an existing MK1 Gti conversion in my bus to an AGG soon and this is like gold, thank you.
What came of the over heating issue? Did you manage to fix it?
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club joker 84
Groupie Joined: 21 Jul 09 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Hi there,
Yes, fixed the overheating. It was easy, as it didn't really exist! Took quite a bit of pissing about to find this out though. The voltage regulator in the dash had gone, so too much voltage was going to the gauge and moving it too far. Bought a new one (https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/voltage-regulator-t3-lt-caddy-instrument-panel.html) and all was well once fitted. Also found out just how little petrol I have been driving around with! Just post on here if you have any questions about the conversion. I will do what I can! It is definitely worth doing the conversion. One thing that I don't think I have mentioned on here is to make sure that your exhaust is good and airtight, at least as far as the lambda. If it leaks then the ecu thinks it is running lean and dumps extra fuel in. Feels ok to drive, but not very economical! Ben
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bmouthboyo
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 24 Feb 11 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Ah that is interesting regarding the voltage regulator. How did you trace the fault down to that? Is there a way of testing the voltage from the sensor with a multimeter?
I am looking to install my AGG during August, have not even started the wiring loom yet! Can I ask what you did regarding the oil dipstick? I am not fussed about small hatch access and struggling to source a JX dipstick and tube so looking at possibly keeping the AGG tube and modding the stick? Also do you have any advice / images regarding the air intake? Thanks again for the great writeup.
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Forden341
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 27 Aug 14 Location: Dorset Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Hi, I am currently running an AGG in a Gipsy and an ABF in a Doka, both using the JX dipstick as it’s a lot more convenient to keep an eye on things through the flap rather than lift the engine hatch, especially with the paranoia that comes with a new conversion!
You could as you say extend the AGG dipstick and mark your new level on it no problem tho. Where abouts in the country are you? By your name I wondered if you were Bournemouth as I’m in Weymouth? Cheers, Bert. Edited by Forden341 - 05 Jul 18 at 09:56 |
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