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EU...in or out...

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danstervan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 16 at 18:58
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

I want to be part of a global community. Not just a Europeane.
Think bigger not smaller.


Eh? But you just said you would vote to leave the EU. Confused
Confucius say: Think bigger by thinking smaller... LOL

I see some of the Engerland footy fans are trashing Marseille... Way to go endearing themselves to our Euro neighbours. Clap
Not into bloodsports myself, but it may be interesting from an evolutionary point of view watching some overweight lager swilling imbeciles biting off more than they can chew with the French riot police.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 16 at 19:38
Originally posted by danstervan danstervan wrote:

Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

I want to be part of a global community. Not just a Europeane.
Think bigger not smaller.


Eh? But you just said you would vote to leave the EU. Confused
Confucius say: Think bigger by thinking smaller... LOL

I see some of the Engerland footy fans are trashing Marseille... Way to go endearing themselves to our Euro neighbours. Clap
Not into bloodsports myself, but it may be interesting from an evolutionary point of view watching some overweight lager swilling imbeciles biting off more than they can chew with the French riot police.

When I was at school global meant the globe, ie. the world.
Eu is Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 16 at 20:34
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

When I was at school global meant the globe, ie. the world.
Eu is Europe.


Indeed, but there are various levels or tiers that need representation in this world.

Therefore there are structures within societies ranging from local community councils, to regional councils, to national governments, to Europe, to worldwide.
The system won't really work efficiently if you want to complain about someone's dog shitting next to your front gate if you have to complain to the one world government to sort it out out for you.

I note you stay in Surrey. You most likely have very different concerns compared to someone living in a poverty stricken inner city area in Glasgow. Do you think your concerns are more important and should override those of others, or do you acknowledge that their concerns should also have equal representation?



 




Edited by danstervan - 11 Jun 16 at 22:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 00:36
The EU is not interested in local polatics only large problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 03:18
For anyone who's interested in some reading, there's a very good dispassionate view of the whole UK / EU sovereignty thing in this Chatham House paper here.

Personally, I've always taught my kids that they should play fair, cooperate, share and that they shouldn't unfairly judge people. But all I'm hearing from the Brexit crowd these days is hyperbole and scaremongering about the 'outsider', and how it would be much better if the UK just took its toys and went off to play in a corner on its own. I always thought we were better than that.

Screw them - my vote is to remain.


Edited by clift_d - 12 Jun 16 at 15:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jason k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 09:11
Mine too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 10:49
...

Edited by ob1 - 12 Jun 16 at 10:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 10:53
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

Originally posted by ob1 ob1 wrote:

WHS ^^^ I'm sure the EU has massive flaws and is far from perfect.

But I don't fancy being left in the hands of the Brexot politicians if we leave without the EU policies to protect us from whatever evil schemes they'd come up with left to their own devices.


I didn't realise we could vote in Brexot politicians, have I missed out.


Yes you did. Euroelections

Edited by ob1 - 12 Jun 16 at 10:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 11:44
Originally posted by ob1 ob1 wrote:

Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

Originally posted by ob1 ob1 wrote:

WHS ^^^ I'm sure the EU has massive flaws and is far from perfect.

But I don't fancy being left in the hands of the Brexot politicians if we leave without the EU policies to protect us from whatever evil schemes they'd come up with left to their own devices.


I didn't realise we could vote in Brexot politicians, have I missed out.


Yes you did. Euroelections


How does that help us vote Brexot politicians, that's EU politicians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 12:14
They might loose a few pounds when fed on French prison food?

I wonder can they claim asylum. In France?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 15:06
Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

How does that help us vote Brexot politicians, that's EU politicians.


If one side or group puts forward a stance or position that is then rejected by the voters, they are effectively in an untenable position, so they often step aside and hand control to the side that wins.
So in this upcoming EU referendum, if there is an out vote, then Cameron and Osborne who campaigned for in are toast, and you end up with Bojo and Gove amongst others.

If you are so concerned about not getting a chance to vote and choose who represents and rules over you, then maybe you should focus your attention closer to home at the almost 900 unelected persons sitting in the House of Lords...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clift_d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 15:08
... or the frankly p**s poor 'first-past-the-post' electoral system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danstervan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 15:47
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

... or the frankly p**s poor 'first-past-the-post' electoral system.


Indeed, and oddly those that gain power through that system are never to quick to reform it.

Up here in Scotland we have a slightly fairer system with a constituency and a regional list vote to elect our MSPs. But it still doesn't stop utter dross or those that have previously been comprehensively rejected by the electorate getting a seat though.
That voting system was implemented when the Scottish Parliament was re-convened to make it virtually impossible to gain a majority. However a reasonably politically switched on electorate enabled the SNP to break the system in the previous parliament session, and just coming up short of a majority again in the last recent election.

Next year we have the Council elections that use a different again STV (single transferable vote) system, which also needs careful consideration of voting strategies to try and clear out some more of the charlatans.



Edited by danstervan - 12 Jun 16 at 16:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 19:46
Originally posted by danstervan danstervan wrote:

Originally posted by nicq nicq wrote:

How does that help us vote Brexot politicians, that's EU politicians.


If one side or group puts forward a stance or position that is then rejected by the voters, they are effectively in an untenable position, so they often step aside and hand control to the side that wins.
So in this upcoming EU referendum, if there is an out vote, then Cameron and Osborne who campaigned for in are toast, and you end up with Bojo and Gove amongst others.

If you are so concerned about not getting a chance to vote and choose who represents and rules over you, then maybe you should focus your attention closer to home at the almost 900 unelected persons sitting in the House of Lords...




So what happens when all the parties want vote in.
We the normal people have no choice who becomes a Lord, so I really don't see what I can do about that. Be it demacratic or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 16 at 21:24
Originally posted by clift_d clift_d wrote:

... or the frankly p**s poor 'first-past-the-post' electoral system.


Yeah they make us over use proportational representation in NI but won't have it on the mainland as neither conservatives or labour would get a majority.

Yeah we get terrorist as politicians, who says crime and murder doesn't pay?

We don't even have an opposition in the nuts house at Stormont!

They cannot sort a budget so they debate the refusal of a bakery to make a cake with pro gay logo instead! Utter waste of good oxygen! The only place you get paid not to do what you were sent there to do!


Haven't seen such a lively debate as this on here in years

Edited by Alonline - 12 Jun 16 at 21:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kryten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 16 at 19:09
The way I see it is that with the rise of the SNP and bad press and constant belittlement of Corbyn we are looking at years of Tory government, For that reason alone I will be voting IN.
I Just do not trust the Tories to look after the best interests of the majority. 
You are on this planet for a short while, There should be a balance between work & life and I for one envy the lifestyle of many European nations. 
Twist my nipple nuts and send me to Alaska.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donecan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 16 at 19:42
^ Well said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 16 at 20:52
Originally posted by Kryten Kryten wrote:

The way I see it is that with the rise of the SNP and bad press and constant belittlement of Corbyn we are looking at years of Tory government, For that reason alone I will be voting IN.
I Just do not trust the Tories to look after the best interests of the majority. 
You are on this planet for a short while, There should be a balance between work & life and I for one envy the lifestyle of many European nations. 

But surely by voting in Camron will think you are agreeing whith his policies, older retiement, cuts in NHS, privatisation of NHS parts etc. how is that helping the working class that want a work leisure balance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kryten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 16 at 22:18
I am pretty sure if we voted out, The Tories will be looking at dismantling many workers rights that the EU have put in place.
Twist my nipple nuts and send me to Alaska.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 16 at 22:41
I think with the way the trade unions are being treated and the advent of zero hour contracts etc the EU is the least of our problems. Look at the changes in contacts in the NHS all done within EU rules.
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