EU...in or out... |
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Yes, the EU may well be far from perfect, what is though? The trouble is with an isolationist mindset we won't be part of a system and lose the ability to influence its course. Do you understand that as an EU citizen you are likely to have far more protections and rights than in the future under a regime run by the current shower in control of the UK? You said there will always be some that think the grass is greener on the other side. It isn't hard to prove the grass is greener on the other side. I posted this earlier in the thread...Some "benefits" of being in the UK: The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU's 28 countries The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe. We have to endure the above because of our own UK government's policies. We can't blame anybody else I'm afraid. Well, I guess at a stretch you can blame all the other governments for doing a better job than our own, but that is a fairly shaky position to take in defending our own shower of vermin running affairs. Last night I was attending a meeting discussing the EU Settlement Scheme with our local MP and MSP. Numerous EU Nationals in attendance. Almost every one of them unique in their circumstances and having to go through hurdles and uncertainty. Many have lived here far longer and paid more tax than our own indigenous citizens. It became apparent that two had over 60 years contributing to our society, and another mentioned they'd moved here in 1967. Arguably those folk are more Scottish than myself as I was born in 1969. Over the years these folk have integrated into our communities and have become fellow workers, friends, and even family members. They came here legally and it is a disgrace that they are now having to endure this, even more so with knowledge of the recent Windrush situation. |
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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The world is queuing up to take advantage of the UK government, but maybe that's just me not 'believing' enough in Britain.
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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^^^ Hey clift_d, from a wee while back... Apparently "It doesn't matter". There is a part of me that actually feels a little sympathy for folk like this older chap. They have been woefully misinformed over the years and because of this they just can't comprehend the complex realities of the modern world. Big business and corporate interests will shred their overly simplistic views.
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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That lies somewhere in the space between cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias and sheer stupidity. The worrying thing is that you can daily see our elected representatives on the telly, holding forth about Brexit in a way which demonstrates that their level of understanding of the issues is indistinguishable from that fellow.
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Steptop
Not Quite Newbie Joined: 10 Dec 18 Location: North Wales Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Reassuring that VW crew keeping it real . More succinct truth and sense (backed by referenced or reference-able facts) in this thread than almost anywhere else I've seen in months.
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fallen in love with the LT, and I think it's going to be a long-term thing...
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donecan
Yardie Joined: 19 Mar 10 Location: Bristol/ London Status: Offline Points: 569 |
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Indeed...it is a refreshingly civil conversation on here, mostly with facts. I had to give up on 'the other forum' as it just turns to petty insults and the classic "you lost, get over it" line, brilliant. One chap is convinced that Jacob Rees Mogg is some kind of knight in shining armour, sent to deliver Britain from the EU dark ages. No amount of facts (or simply pointing out he's a racist, homophobic cash hungry bigot) will shift the opinion. What more can you do when people place such belligerent faith in a person you can literally prove is only out for themselves? |
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Honest, they definitely know what they are doing. At least Dave is capable of thought. Albeit a bit late... |
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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The drip drip drip of bad news keeps coming... And that's before we've even left and in only two years - anybody else remember 'Project Fear'?
That was a fifteen year prediction but it looks liked we're already well on our way... ho hum.
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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The boy's gone full loco. A few months ago he states like a child "Russia should go away and shut up". Now he states "Britain should be ready to use military force to support its global interests after Brexit". These people are complete feckin idiots. Who the feck votes imbeciles like this into position of power. He doesn't come across as having the intellect or practical capability of changing a cv boot, never-mind having the wit to consider the multifaceted implications of military conflict.
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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It's all about harkening back to an imperial past when trade negotiations were the easiest thing in the world to do, as they were always conducted by the British Army.
Apparently the defence secretary thinks Brexit will increase the 'UK's military standing'... perhaps his plan is to sell all the chairs? After all didn't he suggest arming old tractors as mobile missile launchers?
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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Drip drip drip ... According to one of the members of the Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee, figures suggest that the UK economy has now lost around £80 billion since the EU referendum. This equates to around £800 million per week over the period, which is more than twice the sort of number that a bunch of lying spivs might paint on the side of a bus. Presumably this is the 'Brexit Dividend' ... ? |
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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Oops ... Drip, drip, drip ... It might just be me, but it doesn't seem like we have had many people in defending Brexit recently ...
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Aye, the "leave masif" have indeed been somewhat conspicuous by their absence... They're probably all busy as fook knocking together new Austin Allegros and Sherpa vans, and making innovative jam while they still have enough leccy to do so. Currently over 7% coming from those pesky Europeans. Gonna be a lot harder to boil jam and weld with just a candle for power. Come to think of it they'll have hee haw to weld seeing as the British Steel industry got trashed by "our so competent governments". Time to play Big Country again on the demise of that industry. Edited by danstervan - 14 Feb 19 at 14:12 |
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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An intersting article summarising some of the impacts of a no deal Brexit: |
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nicq
Groupie Joined: 13 Jan 13 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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No we are just quietly waiting till we are out. Only a few of weeks to go.
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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ROFL. Can't wait to leave and never mind the consequences.
Did you think we might end with no deal when you voted? |
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nicq
Groupie Joined: 13 Jan 13 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Yes and having owned a company that exported both in and out of the EU a lot of what thats said is far from the truth. We exported to Spain France Germany Norway Switzerland USA Japan and Canada.
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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What things specifically have you heard that aren't true?
I take it you've had a look at the 'No Deal' guidance notices from the UK Government and the European Commission. They don't leave much to the imagination. |
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nicq
Groupie Joined: 13 Jan 13 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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How difficult it is to do the paper work for exporting and how small firms will find exporting allmost imposible.
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clift_d
Yardie Joined: 02 Dec 12 Location: Hackney innit Status: Offline Points: 382 |
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Really... is that all?
Okay. All that stuff is set out in the technical notices for HM Gov and the EU. The main reason it will be difficult for small businesses is not the difficulty it's the expense. There'll be additional documentation and software to process it for anything that's shipped along with the extra staffing required to do that. HM Gov has suggested that companies should look into engaging the services of Customs Agents or Logistical Forwarders which is additional expense. There are the delays required to do the paperwork, to get the approvals processed, plus any delays that might be incurred at the border - don't forget most stuff goes in trucks with goods from multiple sources heading to multiple destinations - if any paperwork on any one of those shipments has an error then the whole truck gets delayed, and time is money. And then there's the duty payments that will need to be made upfront in order to cross the border. As you've shipped to Norway and Switzerland you will know that these coutries can often require duty payments up front which are not necessarily reflected in the value of the goods concerned, and can be much higher and this will be the case for the whole EU. And then there are the tariffs - as our WTO schedule of tariffs has yet to be agreed at the WTO we'll be trading with the EU as a 'Third Country' which means the highest rate of applicable duty on anything we try to sell into the EU. Only Mauritania trades without a WTO schedule and they have a preferential deal with the EU for African countries called 'Anything but Arms' which gives them zero tariff access for all other goods, so the UK will be on worse terms than any other country in respect of our biggest customers. So you're right it's not impossible, but if small companies have to deal with even a part of the above I think it's fair to say it won't be economical for many of them to trade into the EU any more. |
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