EU...in or out... |
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Titus A Duxass
Vanorak Joined: 12 Feb 08 Location: Lossatal, Germ. Status: Offline Points: 2164 |
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Bollocks to it all!!
51°24′N 12°52′E |
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mrhutch
Moderator Group the ginger princess Joined: 21 Aug 07 Location: Herefordshire Status: Offline Points: 5147 |
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T3 1981 Westy Vanagon - thinks lubricant is a fuel
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robbydoo
Yardie Joined: 08 May 06 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 577 |
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Funniest thing I've read for a while........
Edited by robbydoo - 30 Mar 17 at 09:15 |
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1985 LT40 2.4TD Coach built Pioneer Diamond
1983 1.9DG Autosleeper |
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nicq
Groupie Joined: 13 Jan 13 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Bosch won't they are made in Japan now
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Yet another Brexit issue coming up... soon we could see the introduction of "Barista Visas"!
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/853852346442502144 Stewart Lee was prescient. |
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dansimpson
Yardie zubs apprentice Joined: 22 Jul 10 Status: Offline Points: 817 |
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We're leaving, you are either part of the solution, or part of the problem....
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Could you define "we're" please. The reason I ask is that the action of the"UK" leaving the EU creates another problem in itself. That is because of the democratic deficit between the supposed equal union of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England which includes Wales and Northern Ireland. The Kingdom of Scotland voted 62% to remain in the EU against the 38% for leave. If Scotland is to be dragged out of the EU against its will it is a denial of a peoples' inalienable right to self-determination. In 2014 there was a vote on whether Scotland should be an independent country of which 45% said yes against the 55% no, so the UK limps on for the time being. However, during the 2014 indy campaign one of the main campaigning subjects from the pro UK side was that by staying in the UK, Scotland would remain in the EU. Two years on and that has all changed. We know from canvassing many of the EU nationals that live and work in Scotland who previously voted no to Scottish Independence that they would now vote yes. And many more Scots are also changing their minds now that they see the path the UK is going down. We should all be happy every time we are afforded the opportunity to vote and influence our destiny. |
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randolph57
Yardie Joined: 21 Dec 08 Location: plymouth Status: Offline Points: 395 |
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Let them have the Groat! Where was my vote to see wether i wanted the Scots to stay part of the UK?
Still out for me! |
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nicq
Groupie Joined: 13 Jan 13 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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BeJay
Vanorak Joined: 03 Jun 09 Location: Leicester Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
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It seems to me that the only people who aren't happy when we are afforded the opportunity to vote and influence our destiny, are the people who are continually moaning about wanting another referendum because the ones we did have didn't happen to go their way. I'm sure that if you really feel you'd be so much better off in the EU that you could emigrate to an EU country to live and work, along with the rest of the whingers who are not happy with the democratic vote that we had simply because the result didn't go the way they wanted.
Edited by BeJay - 30 May 17 at 20:17 |
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NIL ILLIGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Who's continually moaning about wanting another referendum, and a referendum on what? Britain is not a country, it's a geographical land mass. The UK state is not a country, it's as it names states ie: a union of two kingdoms. Where is the English parliament? That's right, there isn't one. England treats the UK parliament as its own defacto parliament. I don't deny England's choice in determining its future course, why should England determine Scotland's if we are in a union of supposed equals? Equal partners have a choice to leave if they should wish, yes? Can you give me any idea why the pro UK parties and mainstream media fight tooth and nail to keep Scotland subjugated and part of the UK? Why on earth would a Conservative party that is carrying out an austerity agenda and cutting funding to numerous services want to keep a hold of a "region" it portrays as subsidy junkies? In case you haven't noticed the austerity agenda is not working. UK debt in the past five years more than doubled to 1.7 trillion whilst the richest in society have doubled their wealth. Feel free to give me some inkling why that is and if you are happy with what is going on. And for your information I have absolutely no beef with the English, it is the political makeup of the UK that is the issue. |
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Dropchip
Yardie Joined: 24 Mar 13 Status: Offline Points: 592 |
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I read something online a few weeks ago suggesting that if the Scottish had voted for
Leave the uk they would have likely had to file for bankruptcy and been bailed out by the uk tax payers due to the whole economy relying on mining oil and the price per barrel falling to an all time low. As was said about 55% of Scotland votes to ramain part of the EU however in the referendum previously has also voted to remain part of the UK so unfortunately they have to go with the majority vote of the entire uk. i voted leave - if as much effort was put into fighting and supporting the uk rarher than moaning a minority didn't get the result they water maybe just maybe we would recover a lot more quickly |
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nicq
Groupie Joined: 13 Jan 13 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Governments do not give anything away even if it is a liability.
Population of Scotland 5.23 million Population of West Midlands 5.6 million. Scotland is smaller than one county in England stop moaning you don't see Surrey wanting independents because they voted to stay in the EU |
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Provide your source please. Or tbh don't bother as what you have written is complete bs. Scotland's whole economy is not based on oil. Scotland has only 8.3% of the UK's population. 8.3%! Remember this important figure... 8.3% But we DO have... (these figure are a couple of years old now so some may be slightly out of date) 32% of the land area. 61% of the sea area. 90% of the fresh water. 65% of the natural gas production. 96.5% of the crude oil production. 47% of the open cast coal production 81% of the untapped coal reserves 62% of the timber production 46% of the total forest area 92% of the hydro electric production 40% of the wind wave and solar energy production 60% of the fish landings 30% of the beef herd 20% of the sheep herd 9% of the dairy herd 10% of the pig herd 15% if the cereal holdings 20% of the potato holdings ...obviously 100% of the Scotch Whisky industry. We have a... 17 billion pound construction industry 13 billion food and drink industry 10 billion business services industry 9.3 billion chemical services industry A 9.3 billion tourism industry 7 billion financial services industry 5 billion aeroservice industry 4.5 billion pound whisky exports industry 3.1 billion pound life sciences industry Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports We have 25% of Europe's wave and wind energy potential. And finally we are blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil and gas reserves. FYI the oil and gas extracted from Scottish maritime areas is classed by the UK Treasuary as coming from extra regio area so revenues generated from it are not classed as coming from Scotland. some "benefits" of being in the UK: The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU's 28 countries The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe. The UK is the 4th highest country of wealth inequality in the entire planet!
If you read what I wrote previously you would see that one of the main premises of the Scottish indy campaign from the pro UK side was that remaining in the UK would supposedly retain our EU status. That turned out not to be the case so people require the opportunity to choose again.
What are your reasons for wanting the UK to continue when it is clear that there is ongoing divergence between the two Kingdoms that make it up? I have no issue with England choosing its own path. Why should you deny the choice of others to choose their path. Edited by danstervan - 30 May 17 at 22:51 |
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Aye, and Noway has a similar population to Scotland and discovered oil at the same time in the 70s. Yet Norway has managed the resource well and now sits on an embarrassingly large 800 billion sovereign oil fund. Whereas the piss poor management by the UK has squandered the lot and racked the national debt up a trillion in the past 5 years. So what if Scotland has a smaller population than Surrey. Do you mean to say any country with less than a population size you determine should not exist. Edited by danstervan - 30 May 17 at 22:58 |
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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double post, delete please
Edited by danstervan - 30 May 17 at 22:55 |
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Dropchip
Yardie Joined: 24 Mar 13 Status: Offline Points: 592 |
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This time two years ago, the United Kingdom stood on the brink of dissolution. The referendum on Scottish independence hung in the balance and momentum was with the nationalists. The optimism and energy of Alex Salmond’s campaign stood in admirable contrast to the shrill hysteria of Project Fear, the name given to a unionist campaign that churned out ever-less-credible warnings about what would happen after separation. The union was saved, but 45 per cent of Scots had voted to leave it. So the referendum had not closed the question, but left it wide open. At the time, the North Sea oil sector was still in fairly good health. In the SNP’s economic manifesto for independence, it gave estimates of up to £7.9 billion a year for oil revenues. Then the oil price crashed — and oil revenues are now 99 per cent lower, at £60 million. This is no freak: America has mastered fracking and doesn’t need to import so much oil now, pushing the price of a barrel down from $110 to $45. This hasn’t hurt the UK economy because the stimulus from cheaper fuel generally balances out lower North Sea receipts. A country of 65 million can absorb such shocks. A separate Scotland simply could not. Had the SNP achieved its stated ambition of ‘independence day’ in the spring of 2016, what would it be doing now? We don’t have to imagine. This week, the Scottish government published figures for its national finances. They show that the Scottish government spends £127 for every £100 it raises in tax — a ratio unequalled anywhere else in the developed world. It can do this because so much extra money is sent up from England. For every £100 spent per English head, £120 is spent on a Scottish one. |
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Dropchip
Yardie Joined: 24 Mar 13 Status: Offline Points: 592 |
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Greece, Italy, Albania — no country, no matter how economically distressed, has such a mismatch between state spending and tax collected. Scotland’s deficit — at 10.1 per cent of GDP — is now twice as big as the next-worst country (Japan). No independent country could afford to run a deficit of Scottish magnitude: to borrow on world markets, you need a semblance of fiscal respectability. Even to join the European Union, Scotland’s deficit would need to be below 3 per cent. So an independent Scotland would right now be facing a choice: state spending down by 15 per cent, taxes up by 19 per cent, or a combination of the two.
The cuts are certainly doable. The Scottish government machine is vast, and at times the whole enterprise looks like an attempt to recreate East Germany. Nicola Sturgeon could certainly propose a rapid slimming down of government, and say that this is a price worth paying for secession. But as her own government figures now make clear, she could not pretend that an independent Scotland could sustain current levels of largesse. She can forget about free university tuition and free personal care for the elderly. The SNP’s case for separation has always rested on three pillars: that the black gold in the North Sea would transform the economy, that Scotland’s priorities are irreconcilably different from those of England, and that Scottish government always means better government. Each of these three pillars has now collapsed. The North Sea dream has ended: jobs and expertise have already shifted to the Caspian Sea and the Gulf of Mexico. As to the second pillar, the British Social Attitudes survey, the largest of its kind, shows Scots growing ever closer to the English in their outlook to politics, culture and society. And better government? The SNP has now had nine years to prove its theory that decisions taken by officials in Edinburgh are better when it comes to schools, hospitals, transport and the environment. But even Nicola Sturgeon cannot claim that the NHS is better in Scotland than in England. Or that Scotland’s state education system is more progressive than England’s. On the contrary, a poor Scottish teenager is now half as likely to get into university as a poor English one. The merging of regional police services into Police Scotland has been a disaster. Now and again it is argued that the EU referendum has made Scotland more likely to vote for independence. While it’s true that only two in five Scots supported Brexit, this has hardly transformed the desire for independence. The basic economic reality is stark, and undeniable: an independent Scotland would be a Scotland embarking on the most ambitious austerity programme attempted by any western country in peacetime. There may well be a case for this. But as of this week, the SNP can no longer pretend that separation and sado-austerity would not come hand in hand. And the case for the Union? North Sea oil revenue has all but vanished — but there has been no national hammerblow as a result. Instead, more Scots are in work than ever before. Scottish pensioner poverty is lower than ever before. Scottish household wealth is higher than ever before. By being plugged into the larger economic network of the United Kingdom, Scots have not just been shielded from the oil slump, but have been able to achieve more than ever. The pooling of resources works. Scotland and England are now, more than ever, better together. |
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danstervan
Yardie Joined: 19 Jul 11 Location: Caledonia Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Source please for the copy and paste job please.
Reads like better together garbage anyway. All significant powers that would allow Scottish parliament to properly develop the economy are reserved to Westminster. Feel free to answer in your own words why you think the UK should continue in the face of the ongoing divergence of the two kingdoms, and of course please include your views of how the democratic deficit that exists can be altered to offer a more equal say in the equal union of said kingdoms. |
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Dropchip
Yardie Joined: 24 Mar 13 Status: Offline Points: 592 |
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Personally I think if Scotland want to leave uk they should fuck off and go. And stop winging like my 2 year old daughter. But the reality is we will end up bailing them out. Because less face it they do not get an automatic right to be part of the EU.
Secondly the uk won't be the only ship to jump the EU if we negotiate a deal to leave - more will follow. Scotland is like a immigrant on benefits - moans like fuck but is happy to take everything given. |
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