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174 Turbo limp mode issue

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Jason Statham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 174 Turbo limp mode issue
    Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 11:15
Hi All, having a few issues with the old T5 174 AXE. Ive had it from new and had to do a couple of major jobs, turbo replace, ex manifold split, clutch and flywheel, driveshafts etc. I now have an issue that has been plaguing me for a while. It repeatedly goes into limp mode!! It used to do it very rarely. The first time was very embarrassing as I'd just passed an evo and was fair tramping up a hill on full boost. No warning just into limp mode. pulled over and left it for a bit thinking it had just been 'worked a little hard' . I started it up again and no problem at all. after that it seemed to happen occasionally normally under strong load situations. it always just drops to the 2 k revs and thats it. I don't use the van very often as i try and keep it mint. Anyway the problem now is the amount of times its doing it. i haven't used it for a couple of months and within 2 minutes on the motorway yesterday at mid revs it just went into limp. turn the key off and back on and she's good for another 1/2 mile. if I rev up and down up and down constantly it is alright it just when you stay steady.
I have had codes read and N75 crops up. I understand that this is also indicative of sticky turbo guide vanes. As the repeated fluctuations of revs appear to stop it happening does that make it sound more or less lightly to be either fault? I don't want to spend £100 on a N75 if it doesn't need it but i also don't want to spend an hour or so trying to get to that bloody turbo again! any ideas on good diagnosis tips or is it buy the valve, if it doesn't fix it strip the turbo again? i do not want to go inside that turbo again its a complete Brad pit to get out!
Thanks for your time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 14:35
If it goes into limp mode at about 2,000rpm when accelerating under heavy load that is typical for sticky vanes on the turbo causing an overboost.  This mostly happens to engines that are driven gently and at low revs all the time.  If it is happening at higher revs it might be something else.

What error codes is the ECU showing ?  It might not be sticky vanes causing the problem.

There are lots of threads on here about sticky vanes, some suggest you might get away with just moving the actuating rod to loosen things up (which will save you removing the turbo).

Can you borrow a known good N75 to try it out before you pay for a new one ?
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Jason Statham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 14:47
Hi Grego, thanks for your input.
No it doesn't just do it at 200RPM. It seems to do it when its 'getting some' now it doesn't need to be getting a lot. I have just been out and exercised the guide vane actuator and it seems to move freely. Not sure whether thats the full range of movement tho. I did have a N75 fault last time i put it on a reader which was last year. I'm going to floor it somewhere now and then get an N75 and see what happens. They're only £50 so ill give it a bash. Ill have a look at the pipes as best as i can for leaks also. I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW master-tech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 18:35
Try checking the vacuum system as a vac leak will cause a fault with n75 and over boost issues, check things like the egr cooler, breather on the cam cover that all have a vac pipe going to them and make sure that they hold vacuum, have seen a few turbos replaced because the egr cooler has an internal vac leak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 18:44
Well, in case the problem was directly related to lack of use I thought id cane it down the M4 1 junction. it turns out that I am correct in the assumption that if power it on and off it doesn't go into limp mode, if i just leave it on a 'turbo demand' at some point it will go to limp. so I can make it not happen and I can make it happen. Whilst I was going down the M4 at slightly above the national speed limit, but not fast enough to get sent straight to jail, with the on and off throttle process I blew a charged air pipe off! the horrible little pipe that exits the N/s of the intercooler and meets the plastic with the MAF sensor in it. as has happened to me on numerous occasions now the lugs had come off the male bit! plenty of black smoke and booming noise I managed to limp home and order another. Having removed old pipe and sworn and got moody about this sh1te design letting me down for a fourth time i looked into some other things.
I checked the freedom of movement of the turbo vane actuator arm and it moves freely about 15-20 mm I reckon and snaps back freely too. I also contacted Forge motorsport who now do a complete charge air hose replacement kit for the AXE 174 engine at a cost of £169. I think that was plus VAT. They also do a replacement intercooler for a lot more dollar. I also read some where that the DPF can get blocked and cause similar problems. so I have some questions for you experts.
1) is the 15-20mm range of movement on the actuator arm enough? 
2) how can I find out if the DPF is restricted?
3) If the DPF is restricted should I a) smash the crap out of it and hollow it all out? ( theres no sensors on it for pressure difference. b) get another or c) replace it with an expensive delete option.
4)would i be right in thinking that the N75 must be working OK if i can get the acceleration range without it limping?
5) could the pipe work between the N75 and the actuator be leaking or would it not allow the actuator to move when accelerate on and off hard.
Any help or advise for any of these questions would be gratefully received. Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 19:11
I will have a look at the vacuum pipes. I have no vac pressure gauging equipment so not sure how I'm gonna check that yet. I will just have to suck stuff I suppose.  thanks mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 22:15
Right 'suck checked' the vac pipe from the turbo. I can suck the actuator round with a lot of effort and put my tongue over the end and it stays 'sucked on'. When I let go it goes back freely with no obvious restrictions. Ive sucked the one next to it on the N75 and that holds a vacuum as well. the third one that just goes back to a little open paper filter wont hold any vac as I'd expect. The one from the EGR that is blanked by the way will suck back to the same paper filter. I cant find the one that goes to the EGR cooler or the rocker cover. This is one of the earlier 06 models without the electronic EGR. maybe it doesn't have those vac pipes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gregozedobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 16 at 01:52
If the object in the exhaust doesn't have any sensors at the in and out ends it isn't a DPF (probably just a cat ?).  From my experiences with blocked exhausts once they are blocked then they usually consistently restrict performance every time you rev your engine with load (as they simply cannot pass enough exhaust gas to let it out properly). I did have a bike once with a loose baffle in the exhaust, slow as a wet week going uphill (blocked), but flew downhill (unblocked) - the exhaust will sound "strangled" if it is blocked.

I think the ECU error codes may be useful (that way you can search on what problems/solutions other TDI owners had for those particular codes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 16 at 12:34
Now its getting interesting, I have replaced pipe this morning and ended up with some weird noise that turned out to be a woofling on over run of the turbo, didn't have a clue what was causing that! i disconnected the actuator vac tube from the N75 and it stopped doing it! so replaced the N75 then and there!. it still wooffles a bit on the run down if you floor it when its static. I don't know why yet. It goes better and you can now feel the turbo being smoother and progressing properly instead of like a wild 2 stroke motocrosser. It hasn't gone into limp again but I haven't given it a proper dual carriageway caning yet. Too many dibble about in the daylight. The limps would have come by now, so it has definitely improved but yet to see whether it has completely eradicated it. I am now going to try and find the cause of the wooofling and report back. Thanks for now folks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Statham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 16 at 12:35
Now its getting interesting, I have replaced pipe this morning and ended up with some weird noise that turned out to be a woofling on over run of the turbo, didn't have a clue what was causing that! i disconnected the actuator vac tube from the N75 and it stopped doing it! so replaced the N75 then and there!. it still wooffles a bit on the run down if you floor it when its static. I don't know why yet. It goes better and you can now feel the turbo being smoother and progressing properly instead of like a wild 2 stroke motocrosser. It hasn't gone into limp again but I haven't given it a proper dual carriageway caning yet. Too many dibble about in the daylight. The limps would have come by now, so it has definitely improved but yet to see whether it has completely eradicated it. I am now going to try and find the cause of the wooofling and report back. Thanks for now folks

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