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AFN rebuild/rape for parts

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syncroandy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syncroandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 12 at 23:32
Hi Lloydy, like Alex said above, the longitudinal block has its own water pump/aux bracket that's not interchangable with the water pump fitted to the transverse block. The tappings on the block are different.

On the transverse block the PAS pump has its own separate bracket comprised of several parts, and it places the pump down under the alternator right at the bottom.

The compact alt bracket (pic in Rowlseys link) is specific to the transverse block AFAIK, as it bolts to the transverse block ('traditional') water pump.

BTDT..

(PS. Possibly Jed's motor was from a 3A Passat not 3B? This has transverse motor.)

Edited by syncroandy - 23 Dec 12 at 23:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 07:12
I'll have to go that breakers one day, even if it's to get some odds and ends
Andy, Jed has the same block as me. AFN from a passat from the same breaker, I'll just have a look at his next time we meet up. I know he hasn't got PAS if that makes a difference?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syncroandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 09:13
If Jeds has got an 'old-style' water pump on thats interesting. It would be possible to fit one by re-tapping one hole, but you'd be missing one fastener, so there'd be a question-mark over its long-term integrity. I'd toyed with doing this but was then given another block so used that instead. If it works that way for Jed maybe that's enough proof its a viable solution.

Re. PAS that's a good point, the transverse style PAS bracket depends on block tappings that may or may not be on the longitudinal block. I have all the bits here so can check if you're contemplating a 'hybrid' setup.

Edited by syncroandy - 24 Dec 12 at 09:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 13:37
I can't see it making much difference...all the water pumps are the same part on the transverse engines...the JX pump in fact..there may be other similar looking pumps out there that bolt onto the inline blocks but the bolts are still going to be in the wrong places for the alt / pas brackets unless the bracket can be drilled to suit..

Does the pump spin the other way on a passat 3b Afn engine as well? I think if using the 3b block the only option is to either bodge/ modify transverse brackets onto it or use the full passat setup complete with belt tensioner and redundant viscous fan hub..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 15:55
It's something I'd like to do, but I'm not going to invest a great deal of money in it. If I can get hold of the brackets and see how they bolt up to the engine block I have on the stand that would be good. The set up I have in the van is fine really, things bug me though, especially when they could be better. But if there is literally nothing I can do, then fair enough.
There is a picture of the belt set up on page one, I think the water pump runs off the back of the belt. If this engine goes in the van, it will go at 15 deg for sure. I think that the alternator is the furthest point from the centre of crank pulley, so I think it might even squeeze under the lid.
And yes I am running with the viscous fan hub now, with the end of it cut off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syncroandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 19:35
Sorry I thought this was about the engine in your van. If its about the other engine (the one thats for sale ?) I'm not sure what merit there is in spending this time/effort on it ?

Re. upright installs, this introduces so much extra fabrication/cost/time over going 55-degree using the JX bits (or as many as poss), that personally I couldn't justify unless the engine required it. eg. later block design that won't take JX bits. The AFN can be made to work fine at 55 degrees, so why over-complicate things ?

The reason I was looking at an upright install initially was to develop a solution that people could use for any engine fitted to the 3B platform including the later-block petrols and diesels, using the 3B mounts and so on. I still think this is a worthwhile objective.

Edited by syncroandy - 24 Dec 12 at 19:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 19:59
Originally posted by lloydy lloydy wrote:

It's something I'd like to do, but I'm not going to invest a great deal of money in it. If I can get hold of the brackets and see how they bolt up to the engine block I have on the stand that would be good. The set up I have in the van is fine really, things bug me though, especially when they could be better. But if there is literally nothing I can do, then fair enough.
There is a picture of the belt set up on page one, I think the water pump runs off the back of the belt. If this engine goes in the van, it will go at 15 deg for sure. I think that the alternator is the furthest point from the centre of crank pulley, so I think it might even squeeze under the lid.
And yes I am running with the viscous fan hub now, with the end of it cut off.


Looked at the pics...pump does turn other way to the JX one...however the passat belt set up is quite reliable and not a problem other than the pas clearance thing...not so sure any of these lumps will go in a van at 15 degrees without a raised lid however? Maybe it will,in syncro? Be good if if did........but wouldn't want the sump hanging out the bottom of course either.


I'm quite tempted to find a ALH and see about putting that in upright...nice clean belt setup on those...and possibly the best Diesel engine vw ever made...an evolution of the AFN..more forgiving on the drivetrain than the PDs..not the cheapest of second hand engines unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:03
Hi Andy, it would be for the engine in my van. But it would just be easier to try it on the other engine and see if it all lines up.
As for selling the spare engine, no one wanted it.
So it's going to get stripped down and all cleaned up. Then either stored as spares, or rebuilt and kept as a complete engine.
Shame no one is looking for a AFN as its in pretty good nick. Guess I'll just have some nice spares.
15-55 degrees. To be honest I don't see much difference in cost compared to my install. Jäger mounts are not cheap! Would really just be a adapter plate and engine mounts. (the only Jx bit I have is the sump)
To be fair though, the wife would kill me if mentioned changing the engine that much... And pockets are starting get empty. Trying to reserve the new year for bodywork
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:07
ALH seems to be what they use in the states the most, 90bp though isn't it? I'm sure it will stay as is, bonus is a 120A alt, I dont think you can get that with the golf set up?

Originally posted by max and caddy max and caddy wrote:

Originally posted by lloydy lloydy wrote:

It's something I'd like to do, but I'm not going to invest a great deal of money in it. If I can get hold of the brackets and see how they bolt up to the engine block I have on the stand that would be good. The set up I have in the van is fine really, things bug me though, especially when they could be better. But if there is literally nothing I can do, then fair enough.
There is a picture of the belt set up on page one, I think the water pump runs off the back of the belt. If this engine goes in the van, it will go at 15 deg for sure. I think that the alternator is the furthest point from the centre of crank pulley, so I think it might even squeeze under the lid.
And yes I am running with the viscous fan hub now, with the end of it cut off.


Looked at the pics...pump does turn other way to the JX one...however the passat belt set up is quite reliable and not a problem other than the pas clearance thing...not so sure any of these lumps will go in a van at 15 degrees without a raised lid however? Maybe it will,in syncro? Be good if if did........but wouldn't want the sump hanging out the bottom of course either.


I'm quite tempted to find a ALH and see about putting that in upright...nice clean belt setup on those...and possibly the best Diesel engine vw ever made...an evolution of the AFN..more forgiving on the drivetrain than the PDs..not the cheapest of second hand engines unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:24
ALH is 90 bhp variable vane..ASV is a 110 variable..same basic unit however..not sure it's the same turbo...AGR is the 90 hp waste gated engine...and even better in terms of reliability...but a bit slower of course and not as spandangley!

120 alts are out there...did a cambelt and waterpump on a polo classic on the drive a week ago...had a SDI engine with a 120 amp alternator on it with a 1Z type bracket setup...and the old JX type water pump...300000 miles as well!



Pile of shit like!

Edited by max and caddy - 24 Dec 12 at 20:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:31
Quick edit there...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:33
Just been looking up ALH's bare engines seem to start at £350! So a bit spendy once you ad turbo and all the other ancillaries. Got to be cheaper to buy the whole car? Anyway I'm not letting my mind wander down that road.....
The way mines driving at the moment, I don't think a later engine could feel better. To make it perfect I'd need to do what Lee done and fit a scavenge pump for the turbo, as its still smokey when the sump is cold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:36
Blimey! Did I get something right?

Edited by lloydy - 24 Dec 12 at 20:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:37
Yep...always expensive...quite thin on the ground and always in demand as its fitted to all the skoda taxis amongst other things....there even a marine version of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 20:41
Originally posted by lloydy lloydy wrote:

Blimey! Did I get something right?


Yep...convinced myself the ALH was a 110 for some reason...got me wondering about the lid clearance now...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 21:05
I reckon it will be pretty close, breather puck might be the deal breaker. That darkside place do a shortened sump for the ALH type block, only £120, made of steel as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 21:45
Seen those sumps somewhere before somewhere else...just the job as long as the bash plate fits without any mods. Worth mentioning that all the exhaust and inlet manifolds are the same bolt spacing..so lots of options there as well.

Now...who's got adaptor plates in laser cut steel ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lloydy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 22:17
KEP is the only one I know, bet if you asked Andy nicely.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syncroandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 23:04
Heh, I rang Lee about this today, but he's in France so we cut the chat short. We'll have a proper conversation when he gets back. I wouldn't need much encouragement to move forward on the job. It was the upfront cost that was holding me back slightly, but if there are a few queuing up for a decent adapter we could do a 'group buy' approach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max and caddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 12 at 23:10
Now if only there was a water cutting specialist within a few miles that was prepared to take on one off projects...oh...there is!


Maybe some blanks could be produced...then hand finished...then the bellhousing trimmed down a bit on a big lathe...and trued up on big mill...the kind engine shops have....

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