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Warning lights: ABS & traction control |
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T5_In_Austria 
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Joined: 10 Oct 13 Location: Austria Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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 Posted: 10 Oct 13 at 09:24 |
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Newbee opening an old thread... sorry chaps.. that is just how desperate I am (especially with the price of parts and labour in Austria!)
Same fault as descibed in OP (circuit/sensor problem on rear right wheel). ABS faukt light with ignition (with the circuit fault). Drive along a bit (over 10kmph) and it goes out. Over 20kmph it comes back on with the traction control light. If I swith the car off when between 10 and 20 kmph (with no light showing) there will be no fault lights on ignition and they come on over 20kmph. I have checked the cable and it is carrying 12v. I have checked that the sensor (recently replaced) is offering resistance (so is a completed circuit). I maybe getting a VAGCOM soon to see what is happening as I drive with wheel speed etc. Bosch fault codes: 011F 04FC 0522 If anyone notices this continuation of an old thread or can help out with some ideas then that'll be great! Fanks!
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Alonline
Vanorak 
VW Customer Service Joined: 18 Apr 10 Location: Belfast Status: Offline Points: 2517 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 13 at 10:22 |
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Check for corrosion in the connector and also try a swap with the sensor from the other side to see if the fault moves.
You have started well but that's what I would do next. |
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T5_In_Austria
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Joined: 10 Oct 13 Location: Austria Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 13 at 11:01 |
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I've checked all the cable under the arch and the behind the stop lamp but not chased it through to the ABS ECU.
But as it is carrying 12v (stationary) it seems to me that the cable is fine. I might try to swap the cables but this requires a bit of disruption to the currently good side on the left... if it ain't broke.... |
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gregozedobe
Vanorak
Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 13 at 13:43 |
But the right side is broken, and swapping with known good components is the easiest (and cheapest) way to help isolate the fault. |
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T5_In_Austria
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Joined: 10 Oct 13 Location: Austria Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 13 at 16:05 |
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Without VAGCOM which I don't have (yet). Then it is a bit pointless for me to swap the sensors. I certainly won't be able to remove the left without breaking it and the right side (the broken one) I replaced with a new one about 2 weeks ago.
This made the ABS light which didn't used to go out at all, go out then switch back on (see OP). So I recon the sensor is doing something somewhere to change the behaviour. I would have to run a cable from the left across the axle and into the right (or vice-versa) and then it would just show up as the current fault anyhow.... So... best get VAGCOM and then follow these instructions... http://www.ilexa.co.uk/vagmovies/abs_demo.htm I was wondering if any chaps knew if this light pattern may signify something a bit nastier! reminder: i) With ignition the ABS light is ON. ii) Drive about 10kmh and the ABS light goes OFF. iii) Drive over 20kmh and the ABS and Traction control light comes ON. iv) Switch off engine with both warning lights and then it goes back to (i) or i) With ignition the ABS light is ON. ii) Drive about 10kmh and the ABS light goes OFF. iii) Turn off car iv) All warning lights are off vi) Drive over 20kmh and the ABS and Traction control light comes ON. vii) Switch off engine with both warning lights and then it goes back to (i) Just wondered if anybody else has seen this?
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T5 TDI
Vanorak
Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 13 at 21:45 |
Do you mean you fed the wire with 12v to test it?  Because there shouldn't be 12v at the sensor at any time. It should have a tiny fluctuating current induced by the action of teeth passing the sensor. You can only really test it with an oscilloscope or via the diagnostic socket. You really could do with VCDS! If you can cross reference your Bosch codes to VW codes there is loads of info on the web.If you want to test for continuity of the wiring to the sensors you should disconnect both ends and check the resistance. If you apply 12v to a wire that should only have a digital signal on it you will probably fry whatever controller/ECU that is in that circuit. Edit- Just been looking this up. If it's an 'active' (3 wire) sensor it could have 12v on one of the pins. I thought all T5's had the 2 wire 'passive' sensors as described above but it looks like I was wrong.
 Edited by T5 TDI - 11 Oct 13 at 09:16 |
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2004 2.5 174
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T5_In_Austria
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Joined: 10 Oct 13 Location: Austria Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 13 at 10:44 |
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Yeah... T4's have teeth on the ABS ring.
On a T5 the ring is part of the hub (so you have to fit a new hub if there is a problem with the ring). The cable is only 2 pin with 2 wires. The wire is carrying 12v when stationary - so no added voltage or current... that is the voltmeter reading. |
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glampervan
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Joined: 28 Dec 11 Location: NE England Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: 12 Oct 13 at 12:25 |
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Ross, did you get it sorted? I had the dreaded ABS/ECU fault earlier this year and to cut a long story (5 weeks off road at auto elecs) and 900 quid the poorer I finally got it fixed. ECU was the source of the fault, luckily not a new or re-conditioned unit ..... nightmare!
~ Yer auld windsurfing buddy.
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... it's an art not a science.
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T5 TDI
Vanorak
Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687 |
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Posted: 12 Oct 13 at 16:11 |
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I don't understand why it has 12v on the plug if it is a two pin sensor
 Still I notice Mastertech states this in reply to the original poster so it's pretty likely to be right... Maybe you can find someone near you who has VCDS? There are lists of users available online.
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2004 2.5 174
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Dub4life
Yardie 
Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Posted: 01 Feb 14 at 14:18 |
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I had a crazy time with similar this week, just about every light came on and went off! Finally its settled at traction control light and ABS. Had the code read this morning 00287 and 00285 on the ABS, bloke did say the pump could be on it's way and I might have to go to a stealer. And codes 01316 on the instrument panel??
it also came up with interior light codes as I had recently added those LED ones, bloke said get rid of and change back??? Really? I will explore the switch cleaner spray route first, there was excessive road water. Any advice greatly appreciated.
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Motexion, not cheap plywood!
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Dub4life
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Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Posted: 02 Feb 14 at 13:32 |
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Can anyone post some pictures or where to look for the ABS SENSORS?
If I can get to them I can at least start to spray them, the garage showed me where to 'spray' engine end, probably the ECU housing? Anyways, advice appreciated, been a while since I was last on but still pop in to read posts. |
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Motexion, not cheap plywood!
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T5 TDI
Vanorak
Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687 |
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Posted: 02 Feb 14 at 14:58 |
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At the back of each wheel. Follow the wire to find it. Don't confuse it with the brake pad warning light wire that goes to the calliper.
. The best way to test them is on the road using VCDS. However you could unplug them and check the pins aren't corroded at least. I don't think that will be it though.  . You can look up the codes on http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Fault_Codes
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2004 2.5 174
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Dub4life
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Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 14 at 19:48 |
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Ok, second inspection done with an indie vw specialist. Same fault codes. He got the van up on the ramp and showed me what he believed to be the issue, however, he did say that two gone at the same time is very unusual but he has no way of knowing which one it is, without changing them, suggesting I start with the cheaper front first. The speed sensors are like a magnetic ring on the back of each wheel bearing telling the ECU how fast the wheel is turning and in turn controlling the ABS. He said it's not a common fault.
Thoughts??? They want £240 inc VAT to do the front and £350 for the rear. I really didn't want to have both done for obvious reasons! Any way of knowing which one is fucked? Seems a poor design to have to change the bearing if the actual bearing is ok?? Could the ECU be problematic?? I'm going to have to sell one of my beloved guitars to fund this so I don't want to end up changing both and it still not be resolved. Dan
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Motexion, not cheap plywood!
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T5 TDI
Vanorak
Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 14 at 21:32 |
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That price if it's just for sensors is extreme. They only cost about £40 each and surely an hour tops to fit. But maybe they are talking about rust/damage to the reluctor ring the sensor runs against. You can usually see that by eye..I'd get it on VCDS and look at the live data showing the wheel speed of each wheel. You will soon see if any are messing about. AFAIK it is possible for the abs pump to cause multiple abs sensor codes when it's failing. However the sensors can be checked/eliminated individually at the wheel by a decent auto eleckie using an oscilloscope. .The last code says that the instruments controller couldn't 'talk' to the abs controller at some point. That could be a wire but my money is on the pump. Start with what the sensors are reporting though!
Edited by T5 TDI - 24 Feb 14 at 21:40 |
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2004 2.5 174
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Dub4life
Yardie
Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 14 at 22:42 |
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Cheers dude, the guy did mention the bit about the oscilloscope so like you he must know his stuff
And he did put it on the computer, he didn't do a road test which I am surprised at if that's an obvious check? I am dreading if it is the ABS pump as I hear it's going to be a lot! I'm afraid I'm going to have to Put my faith in them as I don't really have a choice but thank you for the pointers, I will certainly mention them. I did think it would be a simple diagnosis, turns out not! The Reluctor rings you mention didn't really look rusty to me, just a bit of road grime. I would like to think that his methods are sound, it's bad business otherwise and at my expense. I hope he's right, I'll update when I know more!! |
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Motexion, not cheap plywood!
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T5 TDI
Vanorak
Joined: 05 Nov 05 Status: Offline Points: 3687 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 14 at 23:28 |
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Re the live data- Most VW indies will have VCDS. If they don't, Snap-on etc can do the same on-the-road tests. Rust on the reluctor rings is normal. Damage or bits missing can cause trouble. If it is the pump sometimes they are repairable. Your place will probably suggest this if the pump is suspect. Let us know how it goes.
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2004 2.5 174
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VW master-tech
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Joined: 28 Aug 09 Location: bedfordshire Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 19:57 |
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Hi, throwing parts at something will always be expensive way of diagnosis, if you have abs,traction control and handbrake warning lights on then my money would be on the abs control unit, this can be bought seperatley from the pump so a bit cheaper, it can also be fitted by yourself if you have someone with vaspc or vcds it is only held to the pump by three bolts no need to drain the brake fluid.
If the faults are with the rear sensors and they have been subjected to all the water on the road look at the back of the bearing where the sensor is and clean all the road crud off,there are rubber covers that can be fitted to protect the sensors from this. Another quite common fault is under the passenger seat the abs wires plug in,wires can get damaged as people love to see how much they can squeeze under there.hope that helps but would as suggested get the wheel speeds checked on a diag machine before splashing out that sort of money. |
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Dub4life
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Joined: 10 Nov 07 Location: Bedford Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 14 at 20:45 |
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Thanks guys, so it went in and with a few extra issues! I did carry on driving and all was well apart from those pesky lights! Then, the speedo stopped, I thought, ok, speed sensor definitely gone, then the red exclamation light along with the engine management light and low and behold the fuel gauge packed in! The general idea is that the ECU now Kaput. The garage suggest getting it reconditioned, again I'm in their hands really although the lads are all ex main stealer and built the business on this fact that they have great experience to help but at half the cost? Anyone here know of any UK based ECU re conditioners? They have one they use but I'm looking at £480+vat. I could well do without that! Why the hell would an ECU blow??
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Motexion, not cheap plywood!
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bananaman
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Joined: 20 Jun 11 Location: Castleford Status: Offline Points: 488 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 14 at 20:51 |
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Has it had a spike, if the van as been jump started or something similar the extra surge of electricity can do it. Also moisture is a common cause for any electrical component to fail-can you open it up to look inside?
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T5 T32 SWB Kombi 130ps
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gregozedobe
Vanorak
Joined: 22 Dec 06 Location: Canberra, Oz Status: Offline Points: -998266 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 14 at 22:10 |
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One possible explanation is the voltage regulator (alternator) has failed and your ECU received a lot more (or less) than the approx 14V it is designed for. If you are lucky fixing the voltage regulator may solve the problem (and you may need a new battery as well, depending on how long it has been over-charged).
Another possibility is a bad earth or connection somewhere.
Certainly worth checking out before going down the new ECU route (always look for the easier & cheaper fix first). |
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T5_In_Austria wrote: