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How to test if syncro working OK?

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robinbowes View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 13:43
Hi,

I just had an "incident" with my newly purchased T4 Caravelle Syncro (nearside front driveshaft came off!) & it has made me wonder if my 4WD is actually working OK.

I effectively lost drive to one wheel, so why didn't the other three wheels continue to provide drive? Or am I missing something here?

What's the best way to check if the syncro system is working OK?

R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 18:16
Personally I back into a muddy field and see if the front pulls me out Big smile
 
I have heard of jacking rear wheels off the ground with centrally located trolly jack and trying to drive forward.........Shocked but wouldn't try it meself!
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but only one wheel per axel is driven unless diff locks engaged.
 
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90 syncro rhd aaz pick up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 18:26
Originally posted by Reco Reco wrote:

Personally I back into a muddy field and see if the front pulls me out Big smile

Well, yes! :p

I was looking for something a little more scientific!

Originally posted by Reco Reco wrote:

 
I have heard of jacking rear wheels off the ground with centrally located trolly jack and trying to drive forward.........Shocked but wouldn't try it meself!
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but only one wheel per axel is driven unless diff locks engaged.

I'm not sure - hence my original question.

I was wondering why I didn't get any drive from the rear wheels when I lost drive from the front, ie. when the driveshaft came off?

R.


Edited by robinbowes - 03 Nov 10 at 18:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 19:09
Hi I would have expected the VC to send the power to the rear wheels as the front wheel with the bust driveshaft should spin.
 
I tested my T4 syncro recently by jacking up the front on one side with a trolley jack (on a flat, smooth surface) and placing block of wood or a wheel ramp under both the rear wheels. Carefully try to pull away and if the VC is working the front wheel in the air will spin and VC will feed drive to the rear wheels and the van should want to climb the block/ramp. Mine did the test ok. There is a video of this on the web somewhere, if I can find it I'll post a link.
 
These websites are both good for syncro info for T4s - use google 'autotranslate' unless you good at German or Spanish!
 
~ Spanish Furgovw website, syncro pages http://www.furgovw.org/index.php?board=108.0
 
 
There are some tidy modified T4 syncros used for trips to Morocco, etc and whilst they aren't clearly as capable as a T3 syncro off-road there is plenty of scope. Started my upgrades already and planning some more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 19:14
Yes, on reflection I would have expected that to work as well.

I'll have to do some tests and, if it's not working, have some serious words with the guy I bought it from!

R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syncost Alot. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 19:35
Have a word, its not working.
 
Why did drive-shaft drop off?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 20:47
Basically, the bolts came loose.

The guy I got it from put 12 months MoT on it before I bought it; he said it needed 3 CV boots to get through, which means he's had the drive shafts off. He obviously didn't tighten them up right.

I shall do a more formal test ASAP and get back onto him.

I know ebay is a bit of a lottery but he did say:

Q: Could you please tell me if the Syncro drive train is all in place and functioning as it should? Does the viscous coupling work effectively without grabbing? Are diff locks fitted and do they work? Is there any mention in the service history of work done on the transmission? Thanks.28-Sep-10
A: Hi, the syncro system works fine on the van and has been tested. The gearbox has had no major work done on it looking through the receipts but it has had bits and bobs done to it. Its had new seals etc, solenoid to engage the 4 wheel drive system and thats it really.

So, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to work!


R.


Edited by robinbowes - 03 Nov 10 at 20:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 20:49
the vc aint working. it should drive with only one driveshaft fitted.
 
the test of putting the rear wheels in muddy stuff wont work with the t4 as the system is backwards.
 
you need to put the front wheels on the slippy stuff to see if the vc transmits to the rear.
 
theres vc tests on you tube done with a t3 syncro. do the same to test yours but i reverse. i mean jack front instead of rear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 20:59
Originally posted by ..lee.. ..lee.. wrote:

the vc aint working. it should drive with only one driveshaft fitted.

How shall I put this...? ARSE!
 
Originally posted by ..lee.. ..lee.. wrote:

the test of putting the rear wheels in muddy stuff wont work with the t4 as the system is backwards.
 
you need to put the front wheels on the slippy stuff to see if the vc transmits to the rear.
 
theres vc tests on you tube done with a t3 syncro. do the same to test yours but i reverse. i mean jack front instead of rear.

Yeah, I figured that was the wrong way round.

I'll try jacking up the front end with a trolley jack and checking tomorrow.

What's busted - just the VC? Are they pricey?

R.


Edited by robinbowes - 03 Nov 10 at 20:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 21:03
sound like the vc has failed open. dont know much about the t4 vc, i belive they differ from the t3 vc set up. baxter has messed with a few i belive and aiden may be up on them aswell. rebuilding the t3 vc is not a diy thing really cant see how the t4 vc will differ from that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 10 at 21:19
Hrm, might have to have a ride over to Holmfirth - about 60 miles from me.

Will do some tests myself first, then decide what to do.

Cheers,

R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 16:12
I did a quick test today:

 - jacked up the front of the car on a couple of trolley jacks (wheels off the ground)
 - selected 1st gear and tried to pull away

It didn't work, ie. no drive from the rear wheels. So, it looks like it's not working.

Is this likely to be the VC, or could there be some other cause?

R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 19:18
Sounds like the VC. Easiest check is carry out the test again and get someone to look underneath and as the VC is located just in front of the rear diff, they should see the prop shaft turning. If the prop shaft is not turning at all then it can't be connected to the output from the gearbox.
 
There's a good picture here of the underside of a T4 syncro, clearly showing the VC, propshaft, etc.
 
I know it won't solve it but once you've isolated the cause of the problem at least you can work out your next steps.
 
Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 20:37
Thanks - I'll give it a go.

Next steps will be getting in touch with the guy I bought it off and who assured me that the syncro was all working! Not sure what he'll say, or whether I'll have to raise an ebay dispute.

R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 21:04
law`s on your side mate....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 21:09
I figure so. I'm hoping he'll just refund me the cost of getting it fixed. I don't want to have to start taking it back across to Whitehaven (from York) for him to look at/fix.

Any idea how much a new VC is likely to cost? Are they straight-forward to fit?

R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 21:23
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/removing-the-viscous-coupling-in-a-syncro_topic47408_page1.html

"Someone said they were quoted £1977 +VAT for a new one from VW."

Eeek!


Edited by robinbowes - 06 Nov 10 at 21:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 21:32
eeek indeed.
 
best get on the phone to the seller me thinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinbowes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 10 at 21:40
Aye, will call first thing Monday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king.module Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 10 at 07:04
http://www.syncro.org/VCTest.html
tbh i doubt you'll get any joy out of the seller... buyer beware and all that - good luck though
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