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Power Steering Judder?

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Kitawagon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 15:20
Hi all, just a quick one this time I promise. I have started to notice a judder when jumping into the van from cold and turning the wheel. It doesn't matter whether I turn the wheel (whilst stationary this is) left or right. Does this point to a steering pump on it's way out or perhaps another smaller well known fault? Many thanks Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfdub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 15:32
I had a slight judder in mine, but topping up the fluid seemed to sort that out... maybe a good starting point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 15:36
Makes sense, only I checked the levels and all seems well there.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 15:52
Take it this is where you check the power steering fluid? Embarrassed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 20:35
When this happened my 174 it was the top strut bearings, once replaced it was quiet again
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 20:42
Cheers for that, sounds not tooo expensive?????

Just out of interest, what are the symptoms of a power steering pump going? Strange noises, heavy steering etc..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 22:21
Yes but it's always been due to contamination of the power steering fluid by engine oil, so as far as I know, clean fluid (yes in that green resovoir!) equals pump ok.  I did see one once that was making horrible noises due to the power steering pipes under the bonnet being out of their clips and held by cable ties.  This meant they were vibrating under load.
 
ES's post is interesting. Thumbs Up  I drove another members van which had an odd engine vibration linked to the steering.  I thought it was either the misplaced pipes or top mountings or possibly even engine mountings.  Worth getting the top strut mountings checked at least I'd say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VW master-tech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 23:13
ES has a good point we have seen loads of the top mount bearings failing /seizing on the top of the front struts best way to check is while the fault is vibrating get someone to move the steering while you touch each spring you will feel the vibration through the spring as the bearing seizes and the spring jumps round to catch up if this is causing your vibration,also as T5 has mentioned check your steering pipes to make sure they arent touching each other or the body etc pay special attention to (as you look at the engine) the pipe on the right hand side that goes down over the gearbox as it folds round behind the box it has a bracket that bolts to the gearbox that has a tendency to snap and vibrate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 23:23
Originally posted by VW master-tech VW master-tech wrote:

ES has a good point we have seen loads of the top mount bearings failing /seizing on the top of the front struts best way to check is while the fault is vibrating get someone to move the steering while you touch each spring you will feel the vibration through the spring as the bearing seizes and the spring jumps round to catch up if this is causing your vibration,also as T5 has mentioned check your steering pipes to make sure they arent touching each other or the body etc pay special attention to (as you look at the engine) the pipe on the right hand side that goes down over the gearbox as it folds round behind the box it has a bracket that bolts to the gearbox that has a tendency to snap and vibrate.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 10 at 23:32
OK, so 1st things first, look into fluid and see if any oil can be seen. Assuming that is clear, to feel the spring I would put my hand under the wheel arch, next to the wheel, and get someone to turn the steering wheel, hopefully not pinning me to the wheel arch Wink, and seeing if I can feel the spring 'notching' / jumping.

Thanks will do that. Assuming it is failing top mount bearings, is it a 'big' job to sort by someone proficient?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Loon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 10 at 09:18
Pointless even attempting this unless you have a spring compressor, and it's a massive PITA if the lower ball joint won't come out, which usually it won't. The wipers and scuttle panel have to come off to gain access to the strut top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote energysolutions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 10 at 19:02
Another clue to shagged top strut bearings is if the noise is more prominent in dry conditions, in wet condition the water lubricates the sticky part and the noise decreases
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerryk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 10 at 21:26

On the 2.5 another problem that can cause steering judder could be a seized altenator free wheel.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 10 at 16:39
Hi there, thanks for your replies. I haven't had time to investigate this further, but do you think a partially stuck alternator wheel would manifest itself (one way) in juddering power steering (both turning left and right) when the engine is cold (i.e. first thing in the morning), as this seems to be the only time that I experience the judder!Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Loon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 10 at 16:41
Condensation on the belt?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 10 at 16:47
Ehm, ok could beGeek Is this something checkable i.e. the belt is accessible for les digits?

Is condensation something to worry about?

Why would my belt have condensation and others not if all kept outside in the cool overnight?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T5 TDI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 10 at 20:41

There are no belts to worry about on your 5 cyl engine Kitawagon.  You should put your engine details in your sig like surfdub or me if you want technical help because the 4 cyl engines are completely different.  Are you actually going to get your fingers dirty on this one btw?  (My guess is no!) Tongue LOL  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteetonMVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 10 at 21:17

Hi I also have a slight steering judder on my 2006 T5 130 auto, but only first thing in the morning. 

I have put this down to the altenator trying to recharge the battery after cold starting with the glow plugs on, and the relatively thick power steering fluid.  Also auto box shift quality not as good as when hot I think also due to relatively thick fluid in the auto transmission. 
 
Perfect no steering  judder when hot and auto shifts perfect when hot.
 
 
Edit:  This happens whilst I am doing a 3 point turn at tickover RPM.


Edited by SteetonMVP - 28 Oct 10 at 21:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 17:49
Originally posted by T5 TDI T5 TDI wrote:

There are no belts to worry about on your 5 cyl engine Kitawagon.  You should put your engine details in your sig like surfdub or me if you want technical help because the 4 cyl engines are completely different.  Are you actually going to get your fingers dirty on this one btw?  (My guess is no!) Tongue LOL  



No belts! MArvelous! Something good about my van LOL.

I wanted modifiy my signature, especially like the idea of adding a piccie too, but couldn't figure it out! Will try again Embarrassed

With regards to getting my hands dirty! Hah! How perceptive Wink, but today has been a turning point, hands, arms, everything dirty replacing my EGR etc..Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kitawagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 17:56
Originally posted by SteetonMVP SteetonMVP wrote:

Hi I also have a slight steering judder on my 2006 T5 130 auto, but only first thing in the morning. 

I have put this down to the altenator trying to recharge the battery after cold starting with the glow plugs on, and the relatively thick power steering fluid.  Also auto box shift quality not as good as when hot I think also due to relatively thick fluid in the auto transmission. 
 
Perfect no steering  judder when hot and auto shifts perfect when hot.
 
 
Edit:  This happens whilst I am doing a 3 point turn at tickover RPM.


Hi Steeton. Thanks for your input Smile. This sounds right to me. So a perhaps a battery on its way out or just another character trait on cold mornings LOL. Also, same as you my gear changes feel a lot stiffer when cold (but I'm a manual). In fact the whole van is a bit of a dog until running for 5 mins at least!


Edited by Kitawagon - 29 Oct 10 at 17:57
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